Most pleasurable & euphoric Benzodiazepine ?

[pcplease]

While I appreciate it unlikely that anyone will get to sample it, we found pynazolam to be the most euphoric. The reaon being that it is a 'frustrated α1 ligand i.e. it buns to the α3,α5 & and α5 subunits so it has reasonably potent anxiolytic activity, it's also a serotonin releaser. A potent serotonin releaser.

Only eight people tasted pyrazolam, pyeyzolam AND pynazolam and what was of most interest to me was when asked which of the three was preferred, without a moment's thought, they all agreed that pynazolam was the best.

Pynazolam was just announced to be available in a month from CN. Will have to send some off for testing but in any case I was pleasantly (very) surprised to read.

 

[4DQSAR]

Well - IF it really is pynazolam, I think you will be pleasently surprised. It's unlike any other benzo. It's potent serotonin release makes it much more like 'relaxing MDMA' than a per se downer.

I say IF because the synthesis was a PAIN to work out. We started from pyrazolam which, obviously, we had Kgs of.

 

[pcplease]

i am really hoping if. the synth difficulty was why pyrazolam never got produced in bulk by CN.

what gives me hope is that it's not as if pynazolam is a very commonly known "special" benzo. demand for pyrazolam has never really died down, and i'm sure someone from the west helped point out that one step further (to pynazolam) will make a product with high, high demand. There's almost no mention of it outside of bluelight

I'll risk it but will be skeptical til lab results come back, unless it really feels that different.

 

[4DQSAR]

i am really hoping if. the synth difficulty was why pyrazolam never got produced in bulk by CN.

what gives me hope is that it's not as if pynazolam is a very commonly known "special" benzo. demand for pyrazolam has never really died down, and i'm sure someone from the west helped point out that one step further (to pynazolam) will make a product with high, high demand. There's almost no mention of it outside of bluelight

I'll risk it but will be skeptical til lab results come back, unless it really feels that different.

Well, how things have changed. There are now free on-line tools that allow you to draw the structure and it will calculate GC-MS and NMR data for you.

It's not that potent i.e. 5-10mg is a dose but absolutely. Nobody touch it until we have the GC-MS and NMR data.

I HAVE noted that there is clearly someone who is looking on this site and offering things we give good reports on.

So please do not trust - I cannot provide QC on someone else's work.

​

 

[pcplease]

it is a shame that drugsdata.org got shut down in our country. they were always happy to test any novel chems for free which they did not have a reference for. i have to figure out where i can get this done

 

[tryptamight]

Pynazolam was just announced to be available in a month from CN. Will have to send some off for testing but in any case I was pleasantly (very) surprised to read.

obviously not mentioning any sources or asking for any, but is this vendor a random obscure lab or a big player in the industry? lately the bigger labs have been taking on products that have been avoided before due to complicated synths but that people have wanted for a long time ,like nortilidine has been released a few days ago. Also they are planning on releasing 3-methoxy-o-pcp aka MXp very soon

 

[pcplease]

im hearing it from the one who introduced ethylbrom, which has never been carried by the accepted best 2 chinamen sister sites.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

im so far behind CN China or Canada --- or an abbreviation for someplace that cannot be disclosed. In 6 days the analog act will no longer apply to any benzos in the US! As the analog act only applies to sched 1 & 2 which c-lam f-lam etizolam and a couple others are currently "emergency sched 1" which means they could REALLY TWIST the analog act and hit you for any benzo analog as sched 1.

NOT AFTER THE 26th! (Unless I missed something I would think woulda been mentioned here)

 

[CfZrx]

Thank you, they are. I've been off that stuff for a while. I went through withdrawals in jail, I was taking somewhere between 25-50mg twice a day. Tolerance goes up stupid fast. I thought I was somewhere else, had multiple seizures, and was completely delusional for almost 2 weeks.

Don't mess with it if you don't have to.

Thanks to clonazolam, I hallucinated that I had a car accident. I was convinced and showed my gf the phone # I had written on a piece of paper from the other driver. Later I called the # only to realize it was a guy I had met in my apartment building a year prior!

This drug is an ABSOLUTE AVOID AT ALL COSTS type of drug.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Wow?

I hate to keep stating this as it seems like tooting my own horn and as you know from your own experience there are some lows with C-lam. I went from between 2-400 mg a of C-Lam daily back to 2.5 mg of C-Pam without any seizures or extremely notable problems. (Other than 5 grams of it getting stolen by a gang just seeing a bag of powder -- LMAO a few prolly dropped and FUGGEM!).

I would probably be dead if I did not have C-Lam at that time to be 100% honest. No negative reactions or crazy blackouts over a couple/few years of daily use and a couple few of tapering.

Now Phenazepam (I think the Soviet benzo) is a different story --- that stuff I lost some days from! Maybe it was the extreme long halflife or maybe it was because that was what I used to get my training wheels for powdered benzo dosing.....

I would put Clonazolam on the MUST TRY list myself but life is subjective af. Really tapering Suboxone has been harder IMPO/E

 

[tryptamight]

Wow?

I hate to keep stating this as it seems like tooting my own horn and as you know from your own experience there are some lows with C-lam. I went from between 2-400 mg a of C-Lam daily back to 2.5 mg of C-Pam without any seizures or extremely notable problems. (Other than 5 grams of it getting stolen by a gang just seeing a bag of powder -- LMAO a few prolly dropped and FUGGEM!).

I would probably be dead if I did not have C-Lam at that time to be 100% honest. No negative reactions or crazy blackouts over a couple/few years of daily use and a couple few of tapering.

Now Phenazepam (I think the Soviet benzo) is a different story --- that stuff I lost some days from! Maybe it was the extreme long halflife or maybe it was because that was what I used to get my training wheels for powdered benzo dosing.....

I would put Clonazolam on the MUST TRY list myself but life is subjective af. Really tapering Suboxone has been harder IMPO/E

Honestly yeah these people got unlucky with clon, I get the insane risks but personally I had 0.25mg tabs, I that I would quarters out of and take those, and it was fantastic. Like super euphoric and I could feel that wet activity. It was crazy warm and nice, felt almost like a benzo methaqualone equivalent . Also never had blackouts or binges, but I was also "smart enough " to get super low dose blotters and then on top of that use tint pieces of those, so controlling dosage was always ez

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

what does CN stand for China or Canada? I hope that isn't pushing the rules too much -- Oh someone did address me. Larger vendor and one sec I'll check... nah not seeing that pop up on the menu or coming soon tilmetamine is the only dissociative stocked. 3c-p as psychedelic which feels like something most wouldn't have.

 

[4DQSAR]

I would put Clonazolam on the MUST TRY list myself but life is subjective af. Really tapering Suboxone has been harder IMPO/E

You are aware that unlike other benzodiazpeines, nitrobenzodiazepines have been proven to be toxic. I have posted this before. Initially it came from the suicide figures in Sweden. I very quickly noted that nitrazepam, flunitrazepam and clonazepam represented 100% of cases in which a single drug was responsible for the death.

I've posted links elsewhere but the key thing is that while the body is mostly an oxidative instument, aryl nitro moieties are reduced and form to toxic species. I'm uncertain if it was one, the other or both that made the nitrobenzodiazpines so hazardous.

I figure doctors in North America are now so scared to prescribe a benzodiazepine, the fact that clonazepam was and is still only indicated for the treatment of epilepsy meant that the DEA (and Canadian equivalent) had to exempt clonazepam from the various systems put in place to stop the overprescribing of benzos - but that's a guess on my part.

I don't think clonazapam is in any way special. Like the other nitrobenzodiazepines it appears to produce mood lability and loss of executive function out of all proportion to it's anxiolytic effect.

Can you design a safe nitrobenzodiazepine? Yes you can - pynazolam.

BTW the reason nitrobenzodiazepines were found to be more hypnotic is simply because they increase levels of extracellular serotonin. Which I suppose MAY produce more euphoria in some people. Oh, nitrobenzodiazepines have high a1b1y2 affinity and have been demonstrated to produce dopamine disinhibition. So if anything, clonazepam is almost the last benzodiazepine one should consider for anxiety. For the purposes of abuse, a good choice as long as you are willing to run the risks

But I can upload dozens if not undreds of academic papers which demonstrate that ALL benzodiazepines produce tolerance in 2-4 weeks and dependence after 8 weeks. These are studies with very large cohorts. So while a case study has value, nobody can assert that because a drug works well for one person, it's likely to work well for another.

That is why I NEVER recommend anyone consume even a prescribed medication unless they NEED it.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Yes you have mentioned it almost without fail. (I'm not dogging you for that; always best to mention toxicity concerns.....and you do have a point -- kind of I guess --- Idk what level it would become toxic if I was gettin away with triple digit daily)

May I ask for a link to an overdose where the person had only consumed a benzo? (Again you have like an infallible record so I believe it but I must read)

I didn't find anything special about pynazolam --- wait maybe I only had pyrazolam (I think that is correct) and it was nothing special whatsoever. Certainly nothing special there -- pyNazolam I don't think I have had and the difference can be huge - is it??

I don't really find anything that special about any benzo to be honest BUTT if asked which is the most euphoric I have tried a great deal more than most and have an opinion! Flubromazolam was strong but Clonazolam more euphoric. F-lam prolly #2 Triazolam #3 Temazepam #4 IMO (of course)

If I was asked what is the safest benzo to use long term my answer would have been much different. You keep going back to Clonazepam I mean lam -- I was originally prescribed Temazepam but the pharmacy was such a pain in the ass to deal with I asked him "Can I get something they won't blink at when I fill" (Which speaks to how little of a difference in euphoria we are talking about benzo to benzo as this was my volition) so I got Clonazepam and again it is small enough of a difference I do not miss the temazepam.

I also do not recommend people diving into benzo addiction - at all. Make no mistake my story of slipping out relatively problem free is the exception not the rule.

Strictly euphoria C-lam, F-lam, Triazolam in that order. Has anyone else tried pyNazolam? You have my interest I could sacrifice some euphoria for non addictive all day.

 

[4DQSAR]

Identification of enzymes responsible for nitrazepam metabolism and toxicity in human | 10.1016/j.bcp.2017.06.114_SciHub

sci-hub.hlgczx.com

Tissue distribution of nitrazepam and 7-aminonitrazepam in a case of nitrazepam intoxication | 10.1016/s0379-0738(02)00421-8_SciHub

sci-hub.hlgczx.com

First is the elucidation of the toxic species within a cohort, the second is a case study. It matters not which specific nitrobenzodiazepine it is, it's the metabolic pathway that's important. I checked and apart from pynazola, all of the nitrobenzodiazepines undergo the same metabolism. I have more papers but freely admit that they use animal models.

What was so interesting to me was that flunitrazepam is said to be five times as potent as nitrazepam... but the LD50 is one fifth that of nitrazepam so on a per dose basis, they are equally toxic. Now I have no explaination of why that should be the case - just the Swedish suicide study.

The role of benzodiazepines in elderly suicides | 10.1080/14034940210167966_SciHub

sci-hub.hlgczx.com

I DID look at more studies, but above is the one I began with (if my memory is working).

Do you want the same for the dopamine disinhibition, emotional lability and both anteriorgade and retrograde anterograde?

I'm happy to do so if it helps to keep people safe.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

The case study reads more like she passed out and drown outside than an overdose?

"52 year old who died of drowning after taking large quantities of nitrazepam packets" "The cause of death was thought to be DROWNING DUE TO nitrazepam overdose and exposure to cold"

--- Well that isn't anymore of an overdose than the guy that takes acid and thinks he can fly? Or takes qauludes and falls asleep in the hot tub

I see there is a possible toxicity issue but unless I missed something (I may have science journals aren't my forte but if felt pretty straight forward) that is not the case study that proves anything other than you can f*CK up and die when your on benzos.

(lethal dose 50%) for nitrazepam in rats is 825 mg/kg -- Be a hell of a lot of packets? Roughly 40 grams ish by my estimate? (Did I drop a 0 or something)

 

[4DQSAR]

(lethal dose 50%) for nitrazepam in rats is 825 mg/kg -- Be a hell of a lot of packets? Roughly 40 grams ish by my estimate? (Did I drop a 0 or something)

In man or in an animal model? I ask because I tried to stuck to human experiences. Animal models can be WAY off.

Also, we only have the acute fatal dose. Hapatotoxicity can be cumulative and I cannot find a human study for that. There are animal models of chronic hepatotoxicity cause by nitrobenzodiazepines (all of them), but as mentioned above, it's dangerous to assume animal models are accurate.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Animal model 'in rats' 825mg/kg. Def has some variation as there is no way 7-0H is 18x the potency of morphine yet alone 23x -- I think anyone who has taken both would agree.

So there are in fact 0 cases of benzo overdose without other substances included as this lady drown and died of exposure "BECAUSE" she took too many benzos. No different from the I took a hit of acid I think I can fly - or got lost in the woods and died of exposure.

Agreed I am far more concerned with cumulative hepatotoxicity and I see why it would be hard to find a human case -- yet alone enough to make a solid case. Who is taking that amnt of nitrobenzos but clean off all other substances and why would they volunteer for such a study.

Still I would say general knowledge is you are not going to overdose on JUST benzos and there seems to be nothing to contradict that. Add a drink an opiate etc etc complete different story - COMPLETE DIFFERENT STORY.

Do not read this and think "He said I can take as many as I want and be safe" that would be a gross misinterpretation of 'unless you really tried it isn't going to kill you on it's lonely'. I think I have mentioned this before but I once asked a nurse how much it would take to overdose (as I was concerned at 4 mg lmao) and the response I got was "as many as it takes to choke to death" which I got a giggle out of.

 

[4DQSAR]

So there are in fact 0 cases of benzo overdose without other substances included as this lady drown and died of exposure "BECAUSE" she took too many benzos. No different from the I took a hit of acid I think I can fly - or got lost in the woods and died of exposure.

Read the Swedish report I supplied - in full.

I can throw in all of the animal models of chronic hepatotoxicity in animal models but while I have totally accepted that animal models can be wildly wrong, we do use animal models first modellng in people has (even bigger) ethical problems.

But I can sit and post the metabolic pathways for all the nitrobenzodiazepines - but reduction of that aryl nitro is the commonality.

I repeat - CHRONIC toxicity is known but not well studied in the prescribing of nitrobenzodiazepines.

In the UK at least, hepatic imparement is a contraindication for the prescribing of ALL nitrobenzodiazepines. Again, can link to it.

What you do with your own body is entiely your choice. I'm not in any way suggesting otherwise. But asseting that a medication is withot hazard to others isn't HR as I understand the term. Survivorship bias in this case means that those for whom the drug did prove damaging... aren't posting to BL.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I did -- that was the second one correct? Did I misunderstand something?

The third one was about elderly suicide I admit I skimmed that one. ahh the smoking gun was in the third one -- my apologies!

"Flunitrazepam was the mostcommon drug followed by nitrazepam. These twodrugs made up 90% of the single benzodiazepinecases. A benzodiazepine was combined with one orseveral drugs, most often psychotropics and analgesics. Multiple drugs were recorded in 61 of the 216 drug poisoning suicides involving benzodiazepines. "

If I understand that correctly it would mean the majority of suicides involving benzos were just benzos?