Suboxone is so hard to get off. But I finally did. Here’s how

[Opana313]

Something reminds me of sales & marketing here, just reeks.. but I am on an afterglow from lsd/candyflip. Fuck AI & the government. I'm high. Anyhow,

I have been able to get my dose lower. The past 3-4years I never took more than 4mg sub, and would constantly stack opioids on top(waste, compulsive) or would skip sub dose days to take oxy/opioids.

I played kratom toss wash game before ever meeting subs back when I would be out & kicking. Helped a lot but not enough and had it's own withdrawal.

I finally after a good year or 2 at 1-2mg and the occasional 3mg+ I have realized the sub trap although it has saved me physically(&mentally) through all this.

Recently I have re introduced kratom, 7-hydroximytragyne has been great for skipping days but am careful of it's double side blade.

Cheers to the mother nature's plants being key once again on getting free buddy!

 

[tryptakid]

Wow. And here I thought I just liked drugs .

Very deep and thoughtful of you. Thank you so much for your insight. I work out every day but Sunday and have good relationships and family. My wife is very supportive at this point as well (thank God).

Sounds like I have a lot more to learn though. Congrats on getting clean yourself! And for dedicating your life to helping others. I’m already on a journey to get engaged in some sort of kratom advocacy. But I’m still a baby compared to so many. I am well intentioned and a hell of a salesman though. So I guess we’ll see. Thanks again for taking the time.

We all start out as babies and grow into the elders that guide and look after the babies that follow.

 

[AlexPK]

Something reminds me of sales & marketing here, just reeks.. but I am on an afterglow from lsd/candyflip. Fuck AI & the government. I'm high. Anyhow,

I have been able to get my dose lower. The past 3-4years I never took more than 4mg sub, and would constantly stack opioids on top(waste, compulsive) or would skip sub dose days to take oxy/opioids.

I played kratom toss wash game before ever meeting subs back when I would be out & kicking. Helped a lot but not enough and had it's own withdrawal.

I finally after a good year or 2 at 1-2mg and the occasional 3mg+ I have realized the sub trap although it has saved me physically(&mentally) through all this.

Recently I have re introduced kratom, 7-hydroximytragyne has been great for skipping days but am careful of it's double side blade.

Cheers to the mother nature's plants being key once again on getting free buddy!

I understood very little of what you said. But I think I got the idea

Getting down to 1-2mg was big for me too. Nice work! I was mostly normal there, but not all the way. That’s why I wanted to push through. Good luck on your continued journey!

 

[AlexPK]

Continuing to improve. Spirits are up. But still not fully normal til I’ve had some kratom. Discouraged, but not the end of the world. Every time I effed up with suboxone it was because I tried to move too fast. Slow and steady wins the race on this one.

Anyone else here successfully get off bupe who is a year past it can toss me an expectation or two? My buddy who works in the field (again, great friend and only good intentions) who got me on bupe in the first place says he gets people off bupe all the time. I have a sneaking suspicion most of the people off bupe and no longer receiving his treatment only are because they’re back on opioids. Thoughts?

 

[JackARoe]

Appreciate the ideas. I was on bupe for less than a year, so hopefully PAWS doesn’t stick around for too long.

I like to provide hope here. Growing up there was no term called PAWS for me years ago. People kicked and felt better. I always did. Then 30 years later I come upon terms like PAWS and HPPD on the internet and I am like glad that info was not around when I was younger. Let's face it, if people did not feel better after kicking whatever it is they are kicking nobody would ever kick anything. The body heals and balances.

About 3 months after kicking a massive poppy tea habit I went to Costa Rica in 2000 with 1000 hippies and saw String Cheese Incident. Tripped in the rain forest and had a total total blast. No PAWS. Just happy I had the strength to wrestle the bull to the ground and felt much stronger. That is why I say schedule a vacation when you feel better.

Yeah feel good about this. You sound like you are on your way to being happier.

 

[tryptakid]

I like to provide hope here. Growing up there was no term called PAWS for me years ago. People kicked and felt better. I always did. Then 30 years later I come upon terms like PAWS and HPPD on the internet and I am like glad that info was not around when I was younger. Let's face it, if people did not feel better after kicking whatever it is they are kicking nobody would ever kick anything. The body heals and balances.

About 3 months after kicking a massive poppy tea habit I went to Costa Rica in 2000 with 1000 hippies and saw String Cheese Incident. Tripped in the rain forest and had a total total blast. No PAWS. Just happy I had the strength to wrestle the bull to the ground and felt much stronger. That is why I say schedule a vacation when you feel better.

Yeah feel good about this. You sound like you are on your way to being happier.

It's true - we can think our way into making it seem worse. Instead of fearing PAWS - re-conceptualizing it as your mind healing and rebalancing itself. It takes time. The avoidance of that process feeds the addiction. Sometimes we have to accept that there's no free lunch and that the work we can do to persevere is valuable in and of itself.

 

[JackARoe]

It's true - we can think our way into making it seem worse. Instead of fearing PAWS - re-conceptualizing it as your mind healing and rebalancing itself. It takes time. The avoidance of that process feeds the addiction. Sometimes we have to accept that there's no free lunch and that the work we can do to persevere is valuable in and of itself.

And with that I reconceptualized my own healings. Most of those times I came out of addiction to a more normal free life. If a person kicks and still has to deal with a bad situation then the situation is still bad and it is not PAWS. Like someone living with abusive parents or spouse whose life legitimately sucks is back in a depressive situation. Who in their right mind would not be depressed?? So while I can say I always felt good we never know what another person's situation is. But honestly, that is not PAWS, that is still dealing with a crappy situation. But PAWS needs more definition. Is it a physical or mental thing. And if mental then maybe we have some power to do something.

HPPD. Ever since my first trip almost 48 years ago I see patterns on walls. I love it. Always loved that. Then years later I read on HPPD. And that scares people. The thing I loved scared others. Now it is possible the extent of HPPD is the issue. While I always see patterns in a dark room, I do not have blinding visual snow that I have read about. I guess that would be bad. It could be I do not have HPPD even though I always see patterns if I want. So I can leave that open to a legit issue if it is severe. To me I always said it is adding in seeing the stars AND constellations. Not just stars.

 

[AlexPK]

I’m not so much scared of PAWS. But I agree with you that my knowledge of its existence is certainly contributing to my current state.

Without sounding too silly, life is pretty good. My feelings of depression are not rational to my depressing circumstances. If I didn’t know what PAWS was, I’d probably have just assumed this is part of the process and fought through it quicker.

I just need to calm down, take the small wins as they come, and remember I’m not taking any bupe

Again, really appreciate the time and thoughts here. You guys are awesome.

 

[tryptakid]

I’m not so much scared of PAWS. But I agree with you that my knowledge of its existence is certainly contributing to my current state.

Without sounding too silly, life is pretty good. My feelings of depression are not rational to my depressing circumstances. If I didn’t know what PAWS was, I’d probably have just assumed this is part of the process and fought through it quicker.

I just need to calm down, take the small wins as they come, and remember I’m not taking any bupe

Again, really appreciate the time and thoughts here. You guys are awesome.

Exactly - we can view things through the lens of pathology, or through the lens as process. Sometimes the process is painful but it is what facilitates growth. Sometimes pain can be part of joy. As addicts, we learn to avoid pain at all costs and through that, we stop growing and we stop feeling joy.

 

[marcoman]

I heard it rots your teeth like meth. This true?

 

[AlexPK]

I heard it rots your teeth like meth. This true?

Not the pills. Perhaps that’s from the films??? I think in general people might get dry mouth which will often cause cavities and the like. But nothing like meth I wouldn’t imagine.

 

[Opana313]

Yeah your teeth. This is main reason I have retreated back to intranasal. .5 every 24hrs-32hrs is now my current taper regimen. Great for me and still got some teeth..just alot of crowns and fillings. A nightmare. Otherwise I probably would stay on it forever no?
Tripping has been an immense help in all of this..most ppl do not trip to face addictive behavior nor while in serious tooth pain(prior to another dental visit).

Legit sat through scary difficult experiences all because the knowledge you're wrecking your own goddamn teeth and just the fact of my face being different(still have one un saveable going to have to get a true false there or for others over time) .threw me for a loop but realized all will work out. but yeah still gots a sexy smile and feels like I'm sort of finally DONE with this addiction and to move on.. all I know is .5 eyeballed and snorting only being 50% bioavailability...has given me hope and courage.

Didn't mean to hijack but yeah suboxone fucking sucks, but godamn I really did need all these years with the maintenance just to get back home so to speak. Still no place like it, and still not entered that threshold..congrats on your freedom dawg!!!!

 

[AlexPK]

Yeah your teeth. This is main reason I have retreated back to intranasal. .5 every 24hrs-32hrs is now my current taper regimen. Great for me and still got some teeth..just alot of crowns and fillings. A nightmare. Otherwise I probably would stay on it forever no?
Tripping has been an immense help in all of this..most ppl do not trip to face addictive behavior nor while in serious tooth pain(prior to another dental visit).

Legit sat through scary difficult experiences all because the knowledge you're wrecking your own goddamn teeth and just the fact of my face being different(still have one un saveable going to have to get a true false there or for others over time) .threw me for a loop but realized all will work out. but yeah still gots a sexy smile and feels like I'm sort of finally DONE with this addiction and to move on.. all I know is .5 eyeballed and snorting only being 50% bioavailability...has given me hope and courage.

Didn't mean to hijack but yeah suboxone fucking sucks, but godamn I really did need all these years with the maintenance just to get back home so to speak. Still no place like it, and still not entered that threshold..congrats on your freedom dawg!!!!

Sounds like your journey is going in the right direction. Sorry it’s been a rough one. You’re super close. Keep it up!

 

[Trichord]

I’m not so much scared of PAWS. But I agree with you that my knowledge of its existence is certainly contributing to my current state.

Without sounding too silly, life is pretty good. My feelings of depression are not rational to my depressing circumstances. If I didn’t know what PAWS was, I’d probably have just assumed this is part of the process and fought through it quicker.

I just need to calm down, take the small wins as they come, and remember I’m not taking any bupe

Again, really appreciate the time and thoughts here. You guys are awesome.

To be fair, I think a lot of people struggle with occasional feelings of depression. It seems to be a part of the human experience (but if you're depressed for months that's a different story). We can't have highs without lows. I think it's good you're appreciating the small wins. As for the kratom for feeling normal, maybe the normal you is the you without the kratom? I'm always working every day on accepting who I am; I'm not a bad person, but not perfect. If the kratom is just taking away purely physical symptoms, that too could be tapered off. If it's helping emotionally, then it is helping you, but it's a crutch and probably shouldn't be a permanent solution. Your perspective today shows that things are better than they were on the suboxone. No going back now

 

[Asante]

Your story is inspiring, hang in there. Opioids are hell to come off.

You'll quit that shite or, so help me God, i'll knock you into the middle of next week!

God = key.

 

[AlexPK]

Your story is inspiring, hang in there. Opioids are hell to come off.

You'll quit that shite or, so help me God, i'll knock you into the middle of next week!

God = key.

Haha. Thanks for the encouragement. The crazy thing is that I fairly easily stopped popping pills after 6 years by moving to kratom. Then I quit kratom multiple times with minimal physical symptoms, but kept going back because I didn’t really want to stop.

It wasn’t until the bupe that I started having all of these nasty physical and mental symptoms when I stopped.

Long story short, I’m still bupe free and working on the kratom taper, which has been much easier since I was only using it to alleviate symptoms and not get high. It’s a tough balance to understand what’s a responsible taper (meaning I still get a crutch) and stopping every substance altogether. We shall see. But I’m not on bupe or opioids, so the win holds. I’ll keep posting updates as to when I’m fully pushed through. Appreciate y’all.

 

[AlexPK]

Been a minute since my last update. In case anyone is still watching…

My PAWS is gone. Praise God. It was a rough couple weeks of depression (again, I’ve never experienced anything like that).

But not all good news. I basically can’t start my mornings until I’ve had some kratom. I feel minor withdrawal symptoms EVERY morning. Not sure how much is in my head, but I’m sure it’s not zero.

I’ve taken kratom for 8 years. When I was popping pills and by itself. So I’m very familiar with how it affects my body. I NEVER had any issues with getting out of bed. My kratom dose would typically be around lunchtime. And the craving (if there even was one) was mental, and not a physical withdrawal. Even though my current dose is way lower than what I used to use recreationally, it’s messing with me more than it ever has.

Suboxone broke me. Plain and simple. Whether it’s mental or physical (likely both), my brain/body has made me far less resilient than I was prior to taking any bupe. I’m frustrated and mad. How has the medical industry just accepted the effects of this shit for anyone outside of hardcore addicts?

I suppose it doesn’t matter for me at this point. If I had to choose, I’d take my current situation over the PAWS I was experiencing in a second. As deathindustrial88 warned me, I’ll probably be feeling the effects of bupe for as long as I was taking it. Appreciate the expectations, friend.

So what now? My plan is a very slow taper of decreasing doses of kratom with these morning withdrawal feelings as my guide. Kratom gummies aren’t the tastiest way to start my day, but they’re my saving grace right now.

Any thoughts/recommendations for my current stage of post-bupe fuckery?

 

[AlexPK]

Almost 2 weeks since my last update. Not much change. I’m sitting in bed right now performing my morning routine: eliminating minor kratom withdrawals with a few kratom gummies and a box of cereal I keep in my nightstand to chase the horrible taste (those of you who know, know exactly what I’m talking about). In about 10 minutes I’ll feel great and ready to take on the work day. But until then, I rant.

I took kratom for 8 years and never had a single morning withdrawal. Not one. It wasn’t until I kicked suboxone that my body and brain became a total bitch. Is this happening still because I’m only 3 months since my Sublocade shot? Or has suboxone just made me a weak bitch? I’d love to know some of your experience in a post suboxone world, but I suppose that would require finding someone else who’s kicked suboxone… a rarity on these forums.

Without sounding all doom and gloom, I’m still suboxone and opioid free. But I’d love to get back to a world where I’m not waking up with minor kratom withdrawals every morning. It still beats the heck out of the alternative though. As always, happy to take whatever advice any of you have for me. Appreciate, y’all.

 

[oppo_don]

Appreciate the ideas. I was on bupe for less than a year, so hopefully PAWS doesn’t stick around for too long. Popped pills for 6 years and never had any PAWS (didn’t even know what it stood for). Switched right to kratom and didn’t have any either. Quit kratom a couple times, again with no PAWS. It was just that I kept going back on it because I didn’t actually want to quit. I was only doing it for my wife. I’ve also learned you can’t quit for other people. You just have to be ready one day. And bupe definitely got me to that point, so there’s that.

But to your point of suboxone being malpractice for kratom, I highly agree. With a 3 hour half life, you could do it 100 days in a row and not even really NEED to taper. You’d just have 2-3 shitty days before it all cleared your system. To your point though, a kratom taper should absolutely be the standard for kratom use disorder. Problem is they don’t even acknowledge it’s existence for anything other than another reason to prescribe suboxone.

As far as my PAWS is concerned, yesterday was better than the day before. So on we march. This sucks though. Nice to have so support from y’all.

Trying to quit suboxone and tried 7OH to get me through withdrawals, but the VERY short half life of 7OH is causing me to experience awful rebound wds like every night or morning (depending on last dose was AM or PM). I was hoping this would make the recovery process easier, but it seems to only be delaying it. It's been 6 days since my last dose of suboxone and to be fair, I've been suprisingly functional on a 10mg 7OH dose, and I've even managed to sleep almost every night which has historically been the most brutal and debilitating element of sub wd for me. However, I'm deeply concerned that if I stop 7OH the withdrawal symptoms will come back full force like a freight train and I'll be back where a started a week ago. I'm kind of freaking out about it and kicking myself for thinking this might be a shortcut or hack for painless wd because as I said the symptoms over the past 6 days have been suprisingly mild. However, yesterday I took no 7OH after having taken like 10 to 15mg for the prior 4 days to get through the peak wd, but by night time I was hurting badly and I had to take 5mg just to get a few hours of sleep and make the pain in my legs go away. I had to take another 5mg this morning too because the pain came back as soon as I woke up. Usually by day 6 I'm over the worst of it, but after the major rebound last night, and this morning, I'm panicking. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has tried using 7OH to get through suboxone withdrawals and if the rebound is short lived or worse than cold turkey. Also, please let me know if anyone has any advice as to what I should do. To be perfectly clear, I'll NEVER touch a sub or any opiate again EVER no matter what. Also, I absolutely refuse to swap one dependency for another. At the same time though, I’m just really hoping that I'm not simply delaying the inevitable and that I won't be back at square one after I run out of the 7OH (I have 40mg left out of 100). This was supposed to be a temporary crutch to help me get through the first 7 to 10 days off of sub without the extended period of agonizing pain and insomnia. If it comes back full force I'm gonna be devastated. I took time off from work for this and I have a life that I need to get back to. I really can't afford to be incapacitated for another 7 to 10 days on top of the 6 I've already taken off

 

[AlexPK]

Trying to quit suboxone and tried 7OH to get me through withdrawals, but the VERY short half life of 7OH is causing me to experience awful rebound wds like every night or morning (depending on last dose was AM or PM). I was hoping this would make the recovery process easier, but it seems to only be delaying it. It's been 6 days since my last dose of suboxone and to be fair, I've been suprisingly functional on a 10mg 7OH dose, and I've even managed to sleep almost every night which has historically been the most brutal and debilitating element of sub wd for me. However, I'm deeply concerned that if I stop 7OH the withdrawal symptoms will come back full force like a freight train and I'll be back where a started a week ago. I'm kind of freaking out about it and kicking myself for thinking this might be a shortcut or hack for painless wd because as I said the symptoms over the past 6 days have been suprisingly mild. However, yesterday I took no 7OH after having taken like 10 to 15mg for the prior 4 days to get through the peak wd, but by night time I was hurting badly and I had to take 5mg just to get a few hours of sleep and make the pain in my legs go away. I had to take another 5mg this morning too because the pain came back as soon as I woke up. Usually by day 6 I'm over the worst of it, but after the major rebound last night, and this morning, I'm panicking. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has tried using 7OH to get through suboxone withdrawals and if the rebound is short lived or worse than cold turkey. Also, please let me know if anyone has any advice as to what I should do. To be perfectly clear, I'll NEVER touch a sub or any opiate again EVER no matter what. Also, I absolutely refuse to swap one dependency for another. At the same time though, I’m just really hoping that I'm not simply delaying the inevitable and that I won't be back at square one after I run out of the 7OH (I have 40mg left out of 100). This was supposed to be a temporary crutch to help me get through the first 7 to 10 days off of sub without the extended period of agonizing pain and insomnia. If it comes back full force I'm gonna be devastated. I took time off from work for this and I have a life that I need to get back to. I really can't afford to be incapacitated for another 7 to 10 days on top of the 6 I've already taken off

I am not a doctor. Or a drug therapist. Just someone like you who never wants to touch another sub again.

Half life of suboxone is 36 hours. Kratom is 3 hours. Long story short, it takes 12 times as long to get subs out of your system. If it’s a day or two for kratom, that means 2-4 weeks for subs.

But taking kratom every day will make you dependent. My experience is that it’s a MUCH easier dependency to deal with.

Right now I’m almost 4 months since my Sublocade shot, which means 3 months bupe free. I have to take my kratom gummies first thing in the morning to avoid kratom withdrawals (subs really messed with my body).

But at the end of the day, the kratom half life should be your saving grace. After you’ve gotten all the bupe out of your system (again, could take up to a month. Certainly not 6 days), you may have to deal with some kratom withdrawals for a few days. Whatever the issue, it will be for 1/12 as long as it would be with subs. DM me if you want to talk this through on the phone or something. But I know your pain. It’s awful.

And if anyone thinks my assessment is dangerous, please respond quickly so I don’t accidentally steer oppo_don on a bad path.