Discussion Vaping 7-OH wtf is this

SotPoker1012 said:
Both these shoddy devices (which may not even contain 7-oh, it wouldn't be the first time an RC opioid was sold as kratom - an incident of that is why several European countries banned it) and the overdramatic moralizing reaction it causes are likely going to get kratom banned entirely.
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I love the ingenuity of people playing around. But to survive the powers that be we have to be wise like and owl and sly like a fox. But we are not. And the state of drugs in 2025 irritates me beyond anything I can even pinpoint. Let's hope this is an ephedrine type scenario if it comes about. Kratom stays legal but these altered pills become banned or over 18 like some states did with kratom. I can tell by your post you are irritated too so thanks for confirming my emotions.

I say this with respect to the intelligent people of BL that know how to do things on their own. I respect that and the knowledge of alkaloids and contents of substances and what can be altered is fascinating. In fact if I ever did try 7-OH it would be from one of them that knows what they are doing and not adding crap or misrepresenting. That is where the real knowledge is.

This stuff is like a bull in a china shop. And I would not be surprised to find adulterated offerings. I am glad there is a chemical process to actually make it. It may save kratom. In 2016 Chuck Rosenberg was head of the DEA. I have seen the man. Seems like he listens and has some human compassion. So he backed off a ban. But this stuff, if it is still called kratom, may very well be the end of this. Probably not. If it was 1985 kratom itself would have been labelled a narcotic and banned under Reagan. But here in 2025 we seem to be the wild west, Tianeptine, a much stronger opioid is still out there. And it probably puts kratom products to shame. But yeah, we have to be smart. Not even sure what that is.

I am ready. I was ready in 2016. :) But honestly I think the times have changed. It is hard to make a natural product illegal. But a substance is easier. And it is good that kratom leaf has almost no 7-OH. Let's hope we survive this for the people that need it. I am tapering off plain leaf very slowly. Like drops every few months and it is a piece of cake. I imagine 7-OH is not as kind.
 
JackARoe said:
I am ready. I was ready in 2016. :) But honestly I think the times have changed. It is hard to make a natural product illegal. But a substance is easier. And it is good that kratom leaf has almost no 7-OH. Let's hope we survive this for the people that need it. I am tapering off plain leaf very slowly. Like drops every few months and it is a piece of cake. I imagine 7-OH is not as kind.
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The clandestine nature of [mitragynine extraction -> oxidation] to turn kratom powder into 7-OH-Mitragynine is not only approachable, but is becoming quite widely known and explored in the community of cannabis extractionists, mushroom cultivators, etc.

I have a suspicion that 7-OH-Mitragynine is probably not going anywhere at this point, as a result of the clandestine cat being out of the bag. Finding it at gas stations and smoke shops though will probably become a thing of the past.
 
"Shoddy devices wouldn't be the first time an RC opioid was sold as Kratom" --- it is not called kratom though it has its own chemical name?

But it is not being sold as kratom anymore than heroin is being sold as poppy pods? I trust those pills to be 7 OH more than I trust anything off the blackmarket to be what it actually is. (Figure the dose may be low and who knows if they had 99% to begin with).
"That's why I stock up on kratom" --- Bulky and icky to get down I would rather stock up on 7-oh frankly.

You can damn the process but it is going to happen everytime -- find alkaloid -- tweak alkaloid in most financially fruitful and legally inconsequential l as possible. (If you care about legality)
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
"That's why I stock up on kratom" --- Bulky and icky to get down I would rather stock up on 7-oh frankly.
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As convenient as even DIY extracts/teas can be, it's still a task and a half to get kratom down most of the time. I personally have found myself prone to what I colloquially refer to as "gross medicine aclimation", where I used to be disgusted by peyote, ayahuasca, mushrooms, DXM, (meth)amphetamine, benzos, MD(M)A, GHB and its prodrugs, LSA containing seeds, and amanitas but over time the taste just grew on me. While cultivating fungi at a bulk scale, it was simply too convenient to fill my pockets with dried fruits and go skating. The amphetamines and benzos I used to chew up as a teenager under the facetious assumption that it would make them more potent, and within a few times, I was completely used to it. I always wonder if people who stockpile kratom powder are in a similar boat, where they've just bodied the gross plant dust so many times that nowadays it's normalized to them.

Your note about compactness/smooth consumption too is highly relevant. When cultivating or acquiring a large amount of anything that can be compressed (cannabis, mushrooms, cacti, kratom -> 7-OH, poppies -> opium, anything like that) I always compact and purify as much as possible. Not only does it make storage easier and more space-efficient, but it makes the analysis of a product a lot easier, and often consumption is easier too. Dabs, 7-OH-Mitragynine, mushroom milkshakes, and purified mescaline will always be easier for me to consume when compared to cannabis flower, kratom, straight mushrooms or straight cactus. I imagine that people who are pissed off about 7-OH being around are pissed off that it's being marketed as "perk" and "roxie" tablets at random gas stations/smoke shops. If 7-OH remained in the realm of the small batch chemist, converting mitragynine into 7-OH-Mitragynine for their own personal supply, I doubt anybody would've cared.
 
Esperighanto said:
I have a suspicion that 7-OH-Mitragynine is probably not going anywhere at this point, as a result of the clandestine cat being out of the bag. Finding it at gas stations and smoke shops though will probably become a thing of the past.
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Agreed, I am surprised at how the US has changed since 1983. Understand I am jaded as f*ck. lol I watched friends go to jail for an ounce of weed.

So many substances should have been caught in the 'war on drugs" long ago. And if you think about it there are so many new substances coming out all the time too. Law can't keep up but should not make natural substances illegal anyway. I feel that way with all substances, synthetic or natural.

Esperighanto said:
I imagine that people who are pissed off about 7-OH being around are pissed off that it's being marketed as "perk" and "roxie" tablets at random gas stations/smoke shops. If 7-OH remained in the realm of the small batch chemist, converting mitragynine into 7-OH-Mitragynine for their own personal supply, I doubt anybody would've cared.
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Yup, wise as an owl and sly like a fox. And that is not that.
 
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JackARoe said:
Agreed, I am surprised at how the US has changed since 1983. Understand I am jaded as f*ck. lol I watched friends go to jail for an ounce of weed.
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Crazy thought, I used to walk around the city with an electric nectar collector and an ounce puck of pure THC crystals and nobody ever gave a shit, cops included. Skating around eating mushrooms out of my pockets, or vaporizing DMT out of a pen never bothered anybody in public there either, but maybe that's a Maine thing, idrk. The scent of the neighborhood that I grew up in was objectively White Widow and machine oil, so I find cannabis very home-y and comforting.
 
Esperighanto said:
The scent of the neighborhood that I grew up in was objectively White Widow and machine oil, so I find cannabis very home-y and comforting.
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Yeah my neighborhood in NY also had that scent. I mean even in the 70's the town police did not care unless you were an ass. The parks at night we gathered. Bon fires in the woods with a keg. :)

Saying that ANYTHING passed off as pure THC crystal back then was PCP. This is where time enabled some fables to become true through ingenuity. I believe that today pure THC crystal is for real.

Back to "Roxies". Anyone calling 7-HO that does not care about you or what you ingest. Where as most of us would not do that to people. BL has had pretty cool discussions surrounding 7-OH. But no one is selling it to me as roxies. But again funny enough my corner grocer, who is a pretty cool guy, gave up on 7-OH. Said people complain each batch is different. And the THC buds are more consistent. So I don't think we will have any mass publicity on it unless it is adulterated.
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
That's why I stock up on kratom" --- Bulky and icky to get down I would rather stock up on 7-oh frankly.
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Fiber man. I get it down easy. And I trust it more from my two cool and interested vendors I have used for years. They do not sell 7-OH. And regular kratom is probably not 7-OH type effects. I am all about keeping tolerance down.
 
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Esperighanto said:
"perk" and "roxie" tablets at random gas stations/smoke shops.
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^That is really annoying and off putting. Locally we have a brand called smurfs, rocksy (Or a similar variation, and one more that was too on the nose ---- Yea that is not wise marketing at all and will surely catch a ban) not an owl/fox move forsure.

I suspect the way we can chew benzos and not be bothered by the taste that kratom is probably similar. Like you I would like to ingest the least amount possible ideally. ex I liked 25i-nbome better than 2c-i not really for taste reasons but some.

Jackaroe-- I am old and jaded like that too. "I remember driving 6 hours into gang territory to wait at a strangers house for brick weed" -- sometimes a parking lot if things were messed up... Also grew up around the smell of pot and have objectively always liked it. Before I knew the difference I would ask my parents if they were having a "Good smelling cigarette or not?"--- pot smoke, even fresh weed is a comfort smell for me.

Personally took a full on raid on some "attempted poss" shit -- needless to say someone was telling tall tales about me. Pot being legal (Enough) is a win -- that was the hill I thought I would die on. Now I stay the hell away from the blackmarket.

On the roxies, I def saw some kid hopping in and out of the smoke shop meeting ppl at Starbucks duck in and out of the store like 4 times while I was perusing there new expensive glass. I do not know what he was telling ppl they were or how they didn't catch on since he was pretty much in eye line of them the whole time!.... (Hooray now they can afford roors and glass hookahs and a 1k dab rig *Which shouldn't drop any jaws here* --- When my Rasta Roor broke I gave up on glass bongs though lol even my banger is silicone coated. The glass hookah does look dope though.) ---I think more commonly that is like the "Brand" name or w/e than it says 7 oh on the package. I don't think any gas stations are pretending to have oxycodone outright?

Yea I could toughen up and get it down but the SSRI effects, the withdrawal of many alkaloids at once -- I kinda prefer dealing with an isolated alkaloid.
 
Quasimoto said:
@4DQSAR https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23736-2

I think this paper inspired a lot of clandestine chemists. It specifically mentions Oxone and synth routes for 11-X-7OH derivatives (sorry mods, delete if really necessary)

I think a lot of the red batches, which are aka / sold in vape shops as "red OH" or "pseudoindoxyl", are actually the 11-x analogs

The last batch I had a week ago I think was an 11-x analog. VERY long half life. Feels like 7oh, except nausea was a major issue and was long lasting vs 7oh. I actually vomited a few times. I preferred it to regular 7oh, mainly due to the duration. I only had to dose once per day in the morning (compared to every ~6 hours with regular 7oh), and the tapering/withdrawal process was smoother.

But I honestly think these alkaloids are the devil now. These are really unusual opioids, with usually bad withdrawals.
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Where are you seeing 7oh vapes??
 
dethkids said:
Where are you seeing 7oh vapes??
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I've seen countless in the smoke shops, convenience stores, gas stations and tourist hubs (places that sell hoodies that say "BOSTON" in Boston, or beachfront towns in Maine, for example). Also some truck stops between Maine and Florida that offer vending machines of cigarettes will have vapes containing to include a variety of cannabinoids (the majority of which are not even real), "mushroom" vapes, kanna vapes, and 7-OH vapes.

Edit: I've only vaped 7-OH that I got myself as a pure, crystal extract. The gas station "mushroom" vapes, kanna vapes, and 7-OH vapes are likely just D8 mislabeled on purpose.
 
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I had it. It was like taking hit of nothing for me.
But good kratom powder Is stronger for me than oxycodone and tramadol, not feeling extreme opioids high Is best for my pain and also so underrated monoaminergic + dooamine raising substance with affects from feeling only weird snri nausea to feeling high AS on ICE ! + some morphine ( this depends on individual body chemistry, meds u take, and dose of tramadol. Normal kratom and extract small pills induce higher 2hour opioid best quality in me and Its enough to orevent WD drom othet opis but for me kratom lasts too short, if i want stronger opioid i take Oxy/dihydrodeine and and when i am lucky i have modafinil to boost speedy quality of my lazy brain burned to dust by 15y.o. crystal use. But every single med i take i need higher dose while on modafinil.

Kreatín vape was broken or just i could not recognize IT.
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Personally not a fan of kratom and prefer the 7-oh (Alot of ppl need pain care and doc's aren't writing; desperate times) to something I'm eating say 10g of at once. Really I could suck it up but for ppl in real pain -- SHORT - VERY SHORT TERM the stuff seems to work. The fact an 8mg sub doesn't stop the w/d of any dose is enough to get my attention.
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I have had all types of opiates prescribed for pain. Suboxone was 97% of the high of morphine, with 3% of the pain relief. I got no life mileage from suboxone at all. Reading how catastrophic it is for dental health, I reckon I dodged a bullet there.

I recently purchased 7-Oh from a smoke shop and was floored how strong it it. I normally take 30mg morphine ER * 3 a day. The tablets I purchased claimed to be 30mg 7-Oh. I was spinning from them. Because they are chewable, it did remind me of buprenorphine, but the 7-Oh actually has a pain relief component. I’d rate it about 70% of the high with 25% of the pain relief.

Out of everything I’ve ever been prescribed, methadone was by far the most effective for pain for my condition. I’d rate it to be about 30% of the high, with 80% of the pain relief. Nothing has ever come close to how clear headed with maximum life mileage returned as methadone. For folks that want to get stoned, I’m sure they’re very pleased with Suboxone.

7-Oh being available over the counter as it is, is surprising. I do hope it remains do, as a safety valve. Old codeine syrups were a safety valve for desperate folks up to the 90’s. Once people really discover 7-Oh, however, it’s really difficult to envision it staying legal. I do wonder if it has the same respiratory depression profile as “real” opiates? I did notice a pretty rapid tolerance to it, with the high decreasing but the pain relief remaining. It also mostly covered any sort of feeling for a need for my regular morphine. After about a day, there is a component missing from its profile that I felt the itches coming from “withdrawal”, but no nausea, sweating, etc. 7-Oh’s profile must tick most of the standard opiate receptors, but not quite all like morphine.
 
What are the chances that some of this "super strong" 7-OH is a nitrazene? Maybe they should be checked with those test strips. It goes to show how much I trust these random vendors. I mean the same named product with different levels of effects. From one person telling me it was weak and another saying they nodded slept for hours. It is the vendor and street situation of 2025 that has made me think caution is needed. Not the ingenuity of science. I love the whole RC topic and find fascinating. What don't like is a greedy vendor that does not care what you ingest.

I've no doubt there is legit 7-OH. But no doubt there is shenanegans going on too. Like mushroom chocolates. Tell me I am taking a synthetic tryptamine and all is good. Although with mushrooms becoming legal it sounds better. But we need more truth. And we need to top BL people that are in the know to call stuff out. Like @4DQSAR has already started to do.
 

Voila - oxidation of mitragynine using the common, cheap and non-toxic agent Oxone. There are multiple references, I just provided the first one I found.


Note that the yield is 55%. Now most chemists would consider that acceptable but I'm told that 'cooks' aren't bothering to isolate the product. I don't know what the impurities are (I did look) but a general procedure for isolating elements from a mixture is preparative chromatorgraphy. But Grisham's law will always act against this.

If people are prepared to accept a slightly worse product at a lower price - how do you sell your more expensive product? It's certain that 55% pure will cost less than half the price of 100% pure.
 
JackARoe said:
What are the chances that some of this "super strong" 7-OH is a nitrazene? Maybe they should be checked with those test strips. It goes to show how much I trust these random vendors. I mean the same named product with different levels of effects. From one person telling me it was weak and another saying they nodded slept for hours. It is the vendor and street situation of 2025 that has made me think caution is needed. Not the ingenuity of science. I love the whole RC topic and find fascinating. What don't like is a greedy vendor that does not care what you ingest.

I've no doubt there is legit 7-OH. But no doubt there is shenanegans going on too. Like mushroom chocolates. Tell me I am taking a synthetic tryptamine and all is good. Although with mushrooms becoming legal it sounds better. But we need more truth. And we need to top BL people that are in the know to call stuff out. Like @4DQSAR has already started to do.
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I kinda doubt anything like that is occurring, but who knows. In the past I have purchased kratom laced with ODSMT, but that was an isolated incident and I've never seen ot heard that happen since then.

Although, on a somewhat related note, 7oh is now on the dark net. I found a vendor selling a product called "be careful bars", which are pressed xanax bars containing 3mg bromazolam, 8mg 7oh, and 10mg promethazine.
 
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Quasimoto said:
I kinda doubt anything like that is occurring, but who knows. In the past I have purchased kratom laced with ODSMT, but that was an isolated incident and I've never seen ot heard that happen since then.
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Well I hope I did not give anyone an idea. I am so suspicious these days with vendors, probably because 4DQSAR confirms a lot of misrepresentation. Although I seem to remember (UEI??) extracts that were adulterated some years back with ODSMT.
 
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