Opioids The lie we tell ourselves re forming dependency - is it a lie?

[LucidSDreamr]

There’s this potential lie I tell myself. Is it a lie?

It’s that if I use opioids one night (no dependent/ clean). That using them again the next day won’t really risk making me closer to dependency because the two uses are so close together that my body will eliminate it after 5 days or so whether I took the single first night dose or both doses including the second day.

Naturally I may have more residual opioid to eliminate after two doses (but what if you compare a super high dose the first night vs that same amount split between the first and second day)

Contrast this with using once then using again 4 days later - with this method you essentially have active /trace opioid in your system much longer because you are keeling it in your system longer by spreading out the doses and not allowing it to eliminate starting on day 2

How much am I bullshitting myself?


Same goes for full elimination of the drug from urine/blood.

How much of this is a lie to myself and how much of it is true because I’ve definitely hear others say it’s less likely to for dependency using Monday Tuesday rather than Monday Thursday .

 

[JackARoe]

How much am I bullshitting myself?

I'll throw out my worthless self bullshitting opinion. (hey I am an addict too). Spacing drugs out will slow any deep addictions so it is a worthy practice (I think....)

Spacing diazepam seemed to have kept a dependence away for you. I thought for sure 2 years ago you were headed straight into that Lucid. But as we see it takes some dedication to get dependent to benzos. Also pregabalin and gabapentin confuse me. Just had someone tell me they stopped 2400 mgs of gabapentin without issue. But he did say he never felt effects so can't tell if he is missing anything. And yet we read some people say (worse than opiates and benzos). There seems to be a missing piece.

Opiates are the quickest IMO. Spacing and skipping days can only help though. Not too much of a lie or excuse.

 

[foodcrisis]

It’s that if I use opioids one night (no dependent/ clean). That using them again the next day won’t really risk making me closer to dependency because the two uses are so close together that my body will eliminate it after 5 days or so whether I took the single first night dose or both doses including the second day.

i think it's more a mental thing, like a person is strong enough to just put it down after one fix. they get a fix and then get it out of their head.

i guess using for just a one day period is the same thing in some ways as what i quoted from the OP. i don't have a lot of experience with opiates, but if i drank for just a few hours, it usually wouldn't be too bad, but if i drank into the next day, i'd feel like shit... i'm thinking alcohol is a totally different thing than opiates though. opiates have to have a lot more in the system to become toxic and alcohol is toxic right away is what i understand..... i feel like it's not always about the science of a drug though... just getting used to be high longer, you could realize how much you want to stay that way.... but honestly, just using one session could bring that back.

if i used a high dose of opiates too, i'm gonna withdraw after and dosing more and weening off would make that easier... if i dose just a small dose of opiates, i don't really have much of a come down.

sometimes when using drugs i say "i'm just gonna go through my whole stash and be done with it". a lot of times i end up caving in, getting more, which leads to me doing more drugs than i would've done if i just spaced out the original stash... everyone is different, and people seem to do different stuff at different times themselves. i'm sure people have experience with all the stuff i described.

 

[Robi]

I see fent dealers all around,always as of late think that I will pick up some,snort or smoke a little,get wasted because I'm clean of that,but I know it will be that one pill that kills and breaks the hearts of my family,so I'm deeply aware of that lie I tell myself but its there always ,that little whisper sometimes a silent scream and pleased over the years that I resist temptation

 

[Quasimoto]

Denial stands for Don't Even kNow I Am Lying

 

[chippermonk]

I see fent dealers all around,always as of late think that I will pick up some,snort or smoke a little,get wasted because I'm clean of that,but I know it will be that one pill that kills and breaks the hearts of my family,so I'm deeply aware of that lie I tell myself but its there always ,that little whisper sometimes a silent scream and pleased over the years that I resist temptation

I think your method is the best way to avoid it, to have a good reason. It's that way for me, I always want to slip in deeper, but I know how much it would hurt people that care about me and who I care about. I just can't do it. And it's not just the risk of dying or bad health. It's also that I'm not present for people I love when I'm high. Or I get really irritable.
But it's a struggle, even using at a very low level and not daily.

 

[chippermonk]

I'll throw out my worthless self bullshitting opinion. (hey I am an addict too). Spacing drugs out will slow any deep addictions so it is a worthy practice (I think....)

Spacing diazepam seemed to have kept a dependence away for you. I thought for sure 2 years ago you were headed straight into that Lucid. But as we see it takes some dedication to get dependent to benzos.

Opiates are the quickest IMO. Spacing and skipping days can only help though. Not too much of a lie or excuse.

Also, some drugs just don't appeal to some people. I could never have a benzo habit because I find zero pleasure in them, other than that they make it easier to sleep sometimes. And I guess I'm also protected with other drugs because low doses are actually more pleasurable for me when it comes to any drug, even alcohol.
But I'm really glad I don't have any easy access to get meth because I can tell that that would be something that could give me trouble. Opiates I love, but they don't trick me like stims. Opiates I skip and space pretty easily, so far. But I always tell myself that I could slip in too deep if I'm not careful and I think that helps.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

i think it's more a mental thing, like a person is strong enough to just put it down after one fix. they get a fix and then get it out of their head.

i guess using for just a one day period is the same thing in some ways as what i quoted from the OP. i don't have a lot of experience with opiates, but if i drank for just a few hours, it usually wouldn't be too bad, but if i drank into the next day, i'd feel like shit... i'm thinking alcohol is a totally different thing than opiates though. opiates have to have a lot more in the system to become toxic and alcohol is toxic right away is what i understand..... i feel like it's not always about the science of a drug though... just getting used to be high longer, you could realize how much you want to stay that way.... but honestly, just using one session could bring that back.

if i used a high dose of opiates too, i'm gonna withdraw after and dosing more and weening off would make that easier... if i dose just a small dose of opiates, i don't really have much of a come down.

sometimes when using drugs i say "i'm just gonna go through my whole stash and be done with it". a lot of times i end up caving in, getting more, which leads to me doing more drugs than i would've done if i just spaced out the original stash... everyone is different, and people seem to do different stuff at different times themselves. i'm sure people have experience with all the stuff i described.

I’m talking about stacking uses very close together rather than spacing them out. The former being less likely to cause dependence because it’s more like “a single use” and by the end of the week the drug is out of your system where if you use Monday then Thursday, you’ve been drugged all week.

I don’t feel like anyone understood what I was asking here

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Opiates are the quickest IMO. Spacing and skipping days can only help though. Not too much of a lie or excuse.

I feel the opposite is true if you are not dependent.


Using Sunday then Monday then having Tuesday thru Saturday off would be less likely to get delemdemcd
Than using Sunday then Wednesday

 

[Psynaught]

There’s this potential lie I tell myself. Is it a lie?

It’s that if I use opioids one night (no dependent/ clean). That using them again the next day won’t really risk making me closer to dependency because the two uses are so close together that my body will eliminate it after 5 days or so whether I took the single first night dose or both doses including the second day.

Naturally I may have more residual opioid to eliminate after two doses (but what if you compare a super high dose the first night vs that same amount split between the first and second day)

Contrast this with using once then using again 4 days later - with this method you essentially have active /trace opioid in your system much longer because you are keeling it in your system longer by spreading out the doses and not allowing it to eliminate starting on day 2

How much am I bullshitting myself?


Same goes for full elimination of the drug from urine/blood.

How much of this is a lie to myself and how much of it is true because I’ve definitely hear others say it’s less likely to for dependency using Monday Tuesday rather than Monday Thursday .

Absolutely nothing good can come from using 2 days in a row, IMO. Last week I had the opportunity to get what looked like real Oxy (2 different type pills) and also what looked like real Vicodin. So I tried some Wednesday and Friday. Both times they tested as Fentanyl. Monday I tried the Vicodin and it tested as fentanyl. That is 3 times in a week, way, way too much.

So now I have to go a full week with out using it whatsoever, otherwise I am slipping towards addiction.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Absolutely nothing good can come from using 2 days in a row, IMO. Last week I had the opportunity to get what looked like real Oxy (2 different type pills) and also what looked like real Vicodin. So I tried some Wednesday and Friday. Both times they tested as Fentanyl. Monday I tried the Vicodin and it tested as fentanyl. That is 3 times in a week, way, way too much.

So now I have to go a full week with out using it whatsoever, otherwise I am slipping towards addiction.

I still don’t feel like anyone understands the question I’m asking

Using Sunday then Monday then having Tuesday thru Saturday off would be less likely to get dependent
Than using Sunday then Wednesday

With the later you have drug in your system all week.

With the former it has the whole week to clean out after the first two days

 

[chippermonk]

I’m talking about stacking uses very close together rather than spacing them out. The former being less likely to cause dependence because it’s more like “a single use” and by the end of the week the drug is out of your system where if you use Monday then Thursday, you’ve been drugged all week.

I don’t feel like anyone understood what I was asking here

That's an interesting idea and I see your point. For me, the problem is that if I use a couple days in a row I feel like I have a bit of a hangover, like my neuroreceptors are a bit depleted and have a craving to feel better. Whereas after one time of use, I wake up the next day pretty normal, so taking 3 days later is pretty non fiendish.
But if you mean taking doses several times but only all in one day, then I can see an argument for that. However, the other problem for me is that that would mess up my sleep pattern, leaving me feeling lousier and wanting to get high the next day.
I really aim for getting high before noon and not resisting so that it wears off and I get a good night's sleep. Just my personal harm reduction approach
But, really, it's all a tightrope to walk, and hard not to slip into doing more, sad to say. I definitely feel like I'm bullshitting myself more than I care to admit.

 

[Psynaught]

I still don’t feel like anyone understands the question I’m asking

Using Sunday then Monday then having Tuesday thru Saturday off would be less likely to get dependent
Than using Sunday then Wednesday

With the later you have drug in your system all week.

With the former it has the whole week to clean out after the first two days

I understand your question, but my response is the same: I believe it is safest to only use once a week. Getting high 2 days in a row is just extra habituation.

 

[kiely]

I think that you are doing good !! LD. If I could only take opioid on Sunday and Monday it would be a very good tactic as well.

This seems extremely wise as a decision. And a bit not too harmful at all as practice and procedure. Just try to be consistent with a schedule

then I guess as much as possible.

And lifesaving and as least dangerous as can possibly be. And sincerely a good plan of action. Strong and amazing to be so aware.

And a good reminder to be cautious because life can be delicate.

And I guess is also a certain understanding.

k. bye.


~~~~


Oh okay. I didn't stick to the topic. But I think that you are being productive and very composed too.

I don't think it is lying if it is just being practical really.

And you take as good of care of yourself as you can !

thanx

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

I'm really not sure what is better, two days in a row or spaced out over a week... For habituation it's probably safer to choose the two days in a row, though those two days might be just enough to get hooked (again).
Spacing out will likely lead to a slowly building up tolerance as well as dependence, that's definitely the case for three times a week at least ime.
But there's another thing that's important imho: the total duration of the high and max dose in your system at a time. I felt that once I got a specially good or even a bit too intense high, it's like an overkill of the ability to feel that pleasure. Smaller doses cause less damage in that respect. Though tolerance is not the same as dependence... it's still linked.

 

[kiely]

Less is more sometimes ... or at least it something. And can help a lot.


Or should this be in aphorisms.

I mean there are 100 yr olds that smoke and drink wine. But ... then again they are not passed out on the sidewalk.

Try to treat life delicately. It can be precious. Just saying. Trying to stay composed and keep a balance is tricky.

But we all know that. ... That's why we are here.

Be good to yourself. And even kinder. Yolo.

 

[foodcrisis]

I’m talking about stacking uses very close together rather than spacing them out. The former being less likely to cause dependence because it’s more like “a single use” and by the end of the week the drug is out of your system where if you use Monday then Thursday, you’ve been drugged all week.

I don’t feel like anyone understood what I was asking here

oh yeah. i think i might have missed the part about splitting the dose up instead of doing it all at once... i thought you were just talking about dosing twice and it doesn't really matter...

i really don't know about this... makes a lot more sense to me now... really can't say i guess from what i'm thinking.

 

[chippermonk]

I thinking splitting a dose might make sense, but in practice, that half dose ends up not getting you as high as you want so it ends up becoming more.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I’m not trying to compare splitting a single dose into two days.

I’m comparing

1). Dose on day 1 and day 2

2 Dose on day 1 and day 4

 

[foodcrisis]

oh yeah. i think i might have missed the part about splitting the dose up instead of doing it all at once... i thought you were just talking about dosing twice and it doesn't really matter...

i really don't know about this... makes a lot more sense to me now... really can't say i guess from what i'm thinking.

^^^^i think the not getting as high as the person wants could get the person to not really remember everything they loved about the drug and that might be good... on the other hand though, what i wrote in my original post, i feel like even if the drug will leave the system in the same amount of time, spreading out the doses might become a problem cause your on the drug longer. i don't know if it's even about the drug being in the system with withdrawl. it's about what a person gets out of the experience if they use again and it's psycological thing... so what the user prefers will be what they get addicted to.


honestly though about low doses. i was using like twenty mgs of oxycontin for like a month straight daily and not until i took 40mgs to get higher did i really get hit with withdrawl... i could always get my stuff done in the day before i dosed the 40mgs.. the day after doing the 40mgs was hell. i didn't get that at all dosing 20mgs even though i was repeating it... i've done low dose morphine for a few days with out withdrawl too, and the one time i dosed higher than usual even with out the drug in my system, i felt strong withdrawl, maybe i even have a low dose opiate tolerance though and i'm poisoning myself or something. 40mgs of oxy or like 50mgs of morphine gets me FUCKED UP... like half that, low dose opiates don't really get me too high though. i really don't know.

... for me, the larger doses even if it's a single time i get hit harder with withdrawl... i feel like using one night with a large fix would be more of a shock to my body and i'd feel some pretty hard withdrawl for a short period if the dose were high enough, but if i'm on a lower dose and do it twice, like my body isn't going to be as shocked by it.