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Phenethylamines Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

red22

red22

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Quote from TiHKAL's harmaline entry:

WITH MESCALINE

(with 100 mg harmaline, 60 mg mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine) [20 min]) "At two hours I was in a pleasant state of physical relaxation, a fine sense of well being, and I found music most enjoyable. From then to the fourth hour, thoughts flowed freely, and it became obvious that insight was a major part of this experience. Normally unconscious thoughts were easily available. It was as if I could observe my mind in operation, as facts were weighed to form conclusions. By the sixth hour music was a thing of beauty, with the higher notes crisp and clear. The harmaline has probably worn off. Sleep at eight hours, and the next day was without any adverse effects. This was a remarkable experience, the insight of TMA, and the relaxation of MDMA."

(with 150 mg harmaline, 100 mg mescaline [15 min]) "A stomach ache developed at about 45 minutes, followed by a mild nausea which occurred intermittently throughout the next six hours. I felt comfortable, although there was a slight discoordination at about two hours. Walking was never a problem but did require more concentration than normal. Colors on the television were obviously more intense, and highly saturated at this point and moderate photophobia developed. Even a fire in the fireplace was distracting, and stereo was best enjoyed in the dark. Attempts at sleep did not work until the ninth hour. Upon awakening there was a feeling of dehydration but otherwise no ill effects. Mild looseness of stools was present later that morning. Since experiments using only mescaline at doses between 80 and 120 mg resulted in no CNS effects at all, it seems clear that the MAO blocking effects of the harmaline were crucial to this experience.
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Alexander Shulgin. TiHKAL. 1997 Part 2: #13 Harmaline


The combination of mescaline or mescaline-containing cacti with B-carbolines has been dubbed peyohuasca.(5,18)

5. Ott, J. (1994). Ayahuasca Analogues: Pangean Entheogens. Natural Products Co., Kennewick, WA.

18. Ott, J. (1994). The Age of Entheogens & The Angels' Dictionary. Natural Products Co., Kennewick, WA.

Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34


My lack of further experience with pure harmaline derives from my having been engaged, since the time of the above research, in the study of harmaline combinations: harmaline-MDA, harmaline-TMA[1], harmaline-mescaline and others.

[1] TMA: trimethoxyamphetamine.

The Healing Journey: New Approaches to Consciousness. Claudio Naranjo. 1973. Ballantine Books. SBN: 345-24328-5-150 4. Harmaline and the Collective Unconscious, p. 121


The initial sensation was one of expanded consciousness and euphoria. I felt intense energy in my heart, and throughout my nervous system. This mixture felt more like e, except on a higher vibrational level of the heart and mind, rather then the body and heart.

Wood_elf. On the Level of the Heart and the Mind: An Experience with B. caapi & Cacti - T. pachanoi (exp32874). 2006-02-20. Erowid


What a shame that mankind at large has lost their understanding of soma---the dietary necessity which regulates ego and allows mankind to commune with Earth Mother.

rastasafari. Fabulous Mesca-hoasca: An Experience with B. caapi & Cacti - T. terscheckii (exp45357). 2006-02-20. Erowid


I and many others I know have also consumed various combinations of Peyote, San Pedro, mushrooms, and Aya in ceremony in sweat lodge numerous times. Never any issues other than some very intense processes. The MAOI in Aya is the only biological risk factor that I’m aware of, so things needs to be served accordingly by very experienced folks (I only sit with one family in Ecuador that’s been working with medicines for decades).

2023-12-16, jimmygle, reddit
I PMed this person to get clarification and he said he's ingested peyote and San Pedro while on ayahuasca.


I never ignored that harmine/harmala has mild psychedelic properties on its own (I wrote articles and published a book about working with vine only brews many years ago so am well aware). I never said it doesnt. I just said I dont find mixing MAOI's with San Pedro to be beneficial or worthwhile - San Pedro is better on its own. Mixing more things doesnt always make it better, sometimes it detracts or just isnt very noticeable etc. In this case, you will be slightly higher but not much, but San Pedro doesnt seem to like the mix and talks to people way less. Also increased nausea and body load for no added benefits.

MapachoCura, 2024-02-15, reddit

I dont recommend adding Syrian Rue to San Pedro for a better San Pedro experience because I dont think it makes it better. I think it makes it harder to hear San Pedro and makes the experience a little harsher. I do recommend Ayahuasca brews with t'chai - I think its a pretty nice mix and it does enhance it a little bit (not a huge difference, but a mild addition that is nice). I think it makes it easier to to talk to Ayahuasca and makes the experience a little more positive leaning and lovey dovey feeling.

MapachoCura, 2024-02-16, reddit

doubledog said:
I did this combination and it's not worth it imo. Caapi did not make mescaline better or stronger (as it would with tryptamines). It mainly increased nausea and body load in me. On the other hand, there are people who like this combo, so it's individual.
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doubledog said:
Caapi is great teacher plant, on its own or combined with DMT or psilocybin. Ime there is no synergy with mescaline, just additive effects.
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If my memory is right, phenetylamines and MAOI can be a bad combo for heart & BP. So go slow and small if you go at all. Tryptamines & ergolines are safer. I'm sure there are reports around about the combo.
 
Harmala alkaloids are psychoactive on their own, I'm sure they can alter an intensify any class if psychedelic... just as any other psychoactive drug would.

PsychedelicSummer said:
MAOI can be a bad combo for heart & BP.
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Yes, they can drastically and unexpectedly raise BP. In fact, I'm coincidentally dealing with this issue today. I've been taking passion flower extract, which is a weak reversible MAOI, but in combination with a few other things and my tobacco use, caused my BP to skyrocket today to a dangerous level. Was very unexpected and problematic.
 
red22 said:
I took a moderate dose of caapi on a low dose of LSD and was surprised that it made LSD look and feel like a tryptamine. Indeed, someone said the combo gave him his most intense LSD trip: "He was being chased by giant trees which wanted to eat him alive."
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Y'know, I've been hesitant to reference that report because it sounds unrealistic and exaggerated, but someone just posted this in my reddit version of this thread:

[San Pedro w/ 2 grams of P. harmala seeds]

Everything was alive, plants became 4k dragons, big spiders everywhere.


Even though no wind outside, it felt like a storm. Meteors rained from the sky. Trees were lying down like in a hurricane. Trees became cortiusels with the most detailed high resolution hallus. Small people running between my feet. Sky exploding in fireworks.


Huge shadow beings was walking with me.


People were digging in the street big shadow creatures following us.

Inevitable-Sir-4264, 2025-04-10, reddit

:unsure:
 
I did this combination and it's not worth it imo. Caapi did not make mescaline better or stronger (as it would with tryptamines). It mainly increased nausea and body load in me. On the other hand, there are people who like this combo, so it's individual.
 
Are you saying you noticed zero synergy?

Do you like caapi on its own?
 
tryptakid said:
Mescaline saved my life - I would not call it mild. It can be quite epic and ephemeral at the same time. DMT is in your eyes while Mescaline is in your soul.
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I Didn't Say Mescaline Wasn't Good, Just Mild.
 
red22 said:
Are you saying you noticed zero synergy?

Do you like caapi on its own?
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Caapi is great teacher plant, on its own or combined with DMT or psilocybin. Ime there is no synergy with mescaline, just additive effects.
 
I don't like the thread title. Mescaline is not a substitute for DMT. It is an alternative which leads to completely different effects.

I combined caapi and a mescaline cacti a few times, always in low doses because I was overly cautious about interactions. I did not notice any obvious potentiation of mescaline effects nor of physical symptoms either. It could be that this particular cactus preparation was weaker than expected. Nevertheless, what I felt was magnificent. It was not very trippy but felt deeply spiritual and healing. It yielded a long-lasting after-glow.

Hopefully when my health is better, I'll be able to revisit it and try somewhat higher doses of mescaline until I get a full "trip" out of it. Either way, it's going to be a completely different type of experience than caapi+DMT, which gives me super powerful trips.
 
doubledog said:
I did this combination and it's not worth it imo. Caapi did not make mescaline better or stronger (as it would with tryptamines). It mainly increased nausea and body load in me. On the other hand, there are people who like this combo, so it's individual.
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doubledog said:
Ime there is no synergy with mescaline, just additive effects.
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Not much to note for LSD and harmalas. You either like the feeling it gives or you don't. I've seen such mixed reports of people not enjoying the combo, it takes away from the LSD or adverse effects.

Personally I like it, but I'll also go out to say that it doesn't feel like a game changer for LSD.
I doin't think anyone is missing out by not trying it with LSD.

Mushrooms and DMT on the other hand, MAOI's REALLY change how the trip feels in a fundamental way to me. It's like adding peanut butter to your jelly sandwich and slapping a banana in there. It just feels right.
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TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-17, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29190411#29190411
 
I've yet to attempt this mix, but I've heard that hordenine is superior for MAO-B inhibition. For those experimenting with this in the future, perhaps try some purified harmaline one trip, some purified hordenine on another, then 50-50 of both for a third trial. Could produce some interesting information.
 
red22 said:
Hordenine isn't even an MAO-B inhibitor.
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"Barwell, C J; Basma, A N; Lafi, M A K; Leake, L D (12 April 2011). "Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat". Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology. 41 (6): 421–423. doi:10.1111/j.2042-7158.1989.tb06492.x" mentioned it did at least.
 
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