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Immigration discussion

mal3volent said:
www.bbc.com

Austria: Villach knife attack leave teenager dead and four wouded

Police have reportedly detained a Syrian man following the attack in the southern city of Villach.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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This is probably going to add more tension to the German elections next week, given they are neighbour countries. Not sure how accurate your coverage is in America, but the tension is definitely building in Germany. Their establishment is much like the British, they are trying to put a lid on it all.. they even were discussing trying to ban the now 2nd most popular party, the 'far-right' AfD party.

Same old story. Deny what is happening, try to put a lid on a boiling pot, inevitable tension and then explosion.
 
-=SS=- said:
This is probably going to add more tension to the German elections next week, given they are neighbour countries. Not sure how accurate your coverage is in America, but the tension is definitely building in Germany. Their establishment is much like the British, they are trying to put a lid on it all.. they even were discussing trying to ban the now 2nd most popular party, the 'far-right' AfD party.

Same old story. Deny what is happening, try to put a lid on a boiling pot, inevitable tension and then explosion.
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In a 2017 speech to the AfD youth wing, Höcke bemoaned German’s culture of remembrance of the Holocaust, saying, “We Germans, our people, are the only people in the world who planted a monument of shame in the middle of our national capital.” He called for Germany to stop atoning for Nazi crimes and make a "180-degree turn" in how it remembers its past.

Alexander Gauland, an AfD co-founder, former party leader, and current Member of Parliament, has engaged in Holocaust trivialization on several occasions. In a 2018 speech to the AfD youth wing, he said, “Hitler and the Nazis are just a speck of bird poop in more than 1,000 years of successful German history.” Gauland also said in 2017 that Germans should be “proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars.”

 
someguyontheinternet said:
You mean this Zimbabwe? The one being controlled with loan terms by the world bank and the IMF? Just like was done in Jamaica and other nations?

www.newzimbabwe.com

In default for 25 years, Zimbabwe struggles to feed its citizens - NewZimbabwe.com

Spread This NewsBloomberg Over the last quarter century, Zimbabwe has failed to pay $21 billion in debt. Now, as the country struggles with the impact of a once-in-a-generation drought, ordinary Zimbabweans are paying the price. A prolonged hot and dry spell caused by the El Niño weather...
www.newzimbabwe.com www.newzimbabwe.com
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Or maybe the wealthy lefovers were more likely to do things the same way the the former colonialists did while the former slaves tended to return to the same situations the former oppressed people had been treated as in the case of the United States during reconstruction.

The systemic trauma causes repetition compulsion on both the victims and unrelated but affected parties in the process.
 
tryptakid said:
Or maybe the wealthy lefovers were more likely to do things the same way the the former colonialists did while the former slaves tended to return to the same situations the former oppressed people had been treated as in the case of the United States during reconstruction.

The systemic trauma causes repetition compulsion on both the victims and unrelated but affected parties in the process.
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Absolutely, these situations are usually multifactorial and I think it would be safe to assume that both the trauma and cultural/socioeconomic factors of the past oppression combined with predatory loans by the IMF/world bank are responsible for the situation
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Absolutely, these situations are usually multifactorial and I think it would be safe to assume that both the trauma and cultural/socioeconomic factors of the past oppression combined with predatory loans by the IMF/world bank are responsible for the situation
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Without nationwide rigorous self analysis and reflection, it's inevitable that the same systems will unintentionally result in the absence of a new and more humane system. This foments agitation which leads to culture wars which ultimately distills into racism which is actually the result of systemic oppression, class, and lack of thoughtful alternatives. Eventually all we really see is the 'how' and stop paying attention to the why, which means the problem never gets addressed... it just repeats. The human response to trauma on a mass social level.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
In a 2017 speech to the AfD youth wing, Höcke bemoaned German’s culture of remembrance of the Holocaust, saying, “We Germans, our people, are the only people in the world who planted a monument of shame in the middle of our national capital.” He called for Germany to stop atoning for Nazi crimes and make a "180-degree turn" in how it remembers its past.

Alexander Gauland, an AfD co-founder, former party leader, and current Member of Parliament, has engaged in Holocaust trivialization on several occasions. In a 2018 speech to the AfD youth wing, he said, “Hitler and the Nazis are just a speck of bird poop in more than 1,000 years of successful German history.” Gauland also said in 2017 that Germans should be “proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars.”

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So true. But sadly even the AFD isn’t based enough for me.
 
Anyone who has studied birth-rates in Europe will quickly realize that with an aging population, there actually is a need for immigration. But LEGAL immigration. If someone with a skill is prepared to spend months or years to legally obtain the right to live in another nation, that shows a determination to better their lives.

As for illegal immigration - it's important to understand that the snakeheads profit from human traffiking and those people who DO make it end up as indentured slaves. Because the snakeheads WILL punish members of a person's family if they fail to remain indentured.

I honestly have no answer on how to tackle the snakeheads but they will promise anything and everything to make people take on what amounts to a reasonable risk of death during the journey.
 
4DQSAR said:
Anyone who has studied birth-rates in Europe will quickly realize that with an aging population, there actually is a need for immigration. But LEGAL immigration. If someone with a skill is prepared to spend months or years to legally obtain the right to live in another nation, that shows a determination to better their lives.

As for illegal immigration - it's important to understand that the snakeheads profit from human traffiking and those people who DO make it end up as indentured slaves. Because the snakeheads WILL punish members of a person's family if they fail to remain indentured.

I honestly have no answer on how to tackle the snakeheads but they will promise anything and everything to make people take on what amounts to a reasonable risk of death during the journey.
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No, we need halt basically all immigration and focus everything on getting birth rates up and adjusting/preparing for the aging population bottleneck we’ll inevitably go through. We could really make the transition much gentler if it were a priority.

All countries have falling birth rates and their birth rates drop when they move to the West, so bringing them here actually exacerbates the demographic problem, and tobs those countries of their youth. And then there is brain drain too, which is not fair to other countries.
 
fairnymph said:
All countries have falling birth rates and their birth rates drop when they move to the West, so bringing them here actually exacerbates the demographic problem, and tobs those countries of their youth. And then there is brain drain too, which is not fair to other countries.
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You can't force people to have kids and even if you do, there are a couple of decades before young people join the workforce and it's hard to convince people that earning minimum-wage as a carer (for example) is the career path (dead end) they want to go for.

I agree that it IS unfair on the nations who train up people only for them to leave. But it is also the case that those who come to work are still able to provide more for their families back home than if they stayed where they are. If people are living on $3/day, sending just $30/month is going to make an appreciable difference.
 
4DQSAR said:
You can't force people to have kids and even if you do, there are a couple of decades before young people join the workforce and it's hard to convince people that earning minimum-wage as a carer (for example) is the career path (dead end) they want to go for.

I agree that it IS unfair on the nations who train up people only for them to leave. But it is also the case that those who come to work are still able to provide more for their families back home than if they stayed where they are. If people are living on $3/day, sending just $30/month is going to make an appreciable difference.
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I’m not suggesting we force people I’m suggesting we implement policies that are extremely pronatalist. There are a variety of incentives that could really help.

The West should not be responsible for paying for the rest of the world, and long-term it’s more important those people stay home and have babies than come to our countries.
 
fairnymph said:
I’m not suggesting we force people I’m suggesting we implement policies that are extremely pronatalist. There are a variety of incentives that could really help.

The West should not be responsible for paying for the rest of the world, and long-term it’s more important those people stay home and have babies than come to our countries.
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Why do you think having more children is so important? Is 8 billion humans not enough?
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Why do you think having more children is so important? Is 8 billion humans not enough?
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It's the AGE. The elderly make up an increasing proportion of the population to the point where we need more and more young people to care for them. But being a minimum-wage job, I cannot imagine too many people choosing what is essentially a dead-end profession.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Doesn't Japan have a seriously aging population with plummeting birth rates? They're one of the strictest nations on immigration
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Indeed it does. Increasing the retirement age (again) has been one approach but jobs that require hard physical labour obviously cannot be efficiently carried out by older people.

Is it's any surprise that the Japanese economy has been stagnent for 30 years? It began in the 90s and in the 00s was termed 'the lost decade'. Then it continued for another ten then 20 years and is referred to as '失われた30年' (lost 30 years). Labour costs are high.

The cost of the aging population is partly being managed by Japanese culture in which the eldest son would look after his parents so often 3 generation would live in a single home. But that is beginning to break down as well. Unless something changes radically, Japan will eventually end up in a decline. But as you note, they rarely allow immigration and while it keeps wages up, manufacturers often state that they cannot produce to meet demand simply because there aren't enough workers.

It's just my opinion but I think hubris has resulted in Japan waiting far, far too long to address the issue. Certainly people are having less children BECAUSE they are also taking care of their parents. It's a cycle that can only end IF Japan accepts that birth rates weren't sufficient by 1959! For the next decade there was a small increase due to increased prosperity but it was still too low. When you ignore such an important issue for 60+ years, it may be the case that the Japanese accept that one day they will see the population begin to shrink. As it is a full third of the population are not of working age.

Increased taxation of those who do work has always been their go to response - but that simply increases pressures on wages.
 
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Kind of crazy how many churches were wasting tax dollars funneled from USAID through NGO's to resettle foreigners

 
fairnymph said:
The West should not be responsible for paying for the rest of the world, and long-term it’s more important those people stay home and have babies than come to our countries.
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Absolutely this. The whole 'we need immigration and/or skilled immigration' can basically be boiled down to the greed of those at the top who simply do not want to pay their fair share. They are happy to pilfer the best of other nations, depriving those nations of talent, and they never discuss why it is these people have to emigrate in the first place; many nations are kept economically strangled by these same people in the West who want to import cheap labour.

It's not rocket science why birth rates are collapsing. Life has been made so hostile to young people in the West, economically and culturally. And look at Japan, the work culture they have there is pure masochism, it's no wonder they don't fuck much.

Make housing way way cheaper, actually create an atmosphere of 'hey, if I work I will have something to show for it', and young people will start popping out babies. No animals in a state of insecurity breed, it's basic biology. The elder generations (and cultural mouthpieces) make it seem more mystifying than it really is.. because they know that the fault of this situation has been caused by their own greed and actions.
 
-=SS=- said:
Absolutely this. The whole 'we need immigration and/or skilled immigration' can basically be boiled down to the greed of those at the top who simply do not want to pay their fair share. They are happy to pilfer the best of other nations, depriving those nations of talent, and they never discuss why it is these people have to emigrate in the first place; many nations are kept economically strangled by these same people in the West who want to import cheap labour.
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If that's the case why not just place regulations on businesses to prevent wage suppression. Make the penalties an actual penalty instead of a $5 fine
 
4DQSAR said:
The cost of the aging population is partly being managed by Japanese culture in which the eldest son would look after his parents so often 3 generation would live in a single home.
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All the cultures that are being destroyed by the "Western way of live" that is more or less forced upon the people are pretty good at taking care of the well being of the people in them.
 
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