Opioids Opioid effect on testosterone

[neversickanymore]

Hypogonadism and Low Testosterone Levels as a Side Effect of Methadone and Buprenorphine - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hypogonadism in men receiving methadone and buprenorphine maintenance treatment - PubMed

The aim of this study was to determine the prevalence and investigate the aetiology of hypogonadism in men on methadone or buprenorphine maintenance treatment (MMT, BMT). 103 men (mean age 37.6 +/- 7.9) on MMT (n = 84) or BMT (n = 19) were evaluated using hormone assays, body mass index (BMI)...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Long-term Opioids Linked to Hypogonadism and the Role of Testosterone Supplementation Therapy - PMC

Opioids play a pivotal role in managing chronic pain with increasing prescription rates over the last few years. Hence, it is crucial to focus on the adverse effects of narcotics, and one of the lesser-known side effects is hypogonadism. Opioids act ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

These may be a little older as I have not looked at this for quite awhile.

 

[fairnymph]

Ei thanks for the advice. My levels should be alright for now just based on everyday indicators and the fact I'm under 30. I won't be low if I get tested, just don't want to sabotage myself too much from the max my body could be at, you know what I mean?

You’d be surprised by how many men under 30 have low T these days…

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Two decades of opioid dependency here. 40s aged male.

Last time I was checked I was right on the border of the normal range for being low (~252 ).

Normal is 250 to 916.

I have zero interest in taking testosterone supplements because it’s linked to enlargement of the prostate.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

A lot of young men think they don’t want kids, but then they get older or meet the right woman…

this is off topic and I’m probably going to get slammed for this, but a drug addict having kids is one of the most selfish things I can think of.

I’m a bit extreme in that I think all procreation is immorral because it drags a being into existence without consent. Not everyone enjoys life. Ppl have kids for selfish reason, to fill a void, not to help some non existent child come into existence that doesn’t even realize it doesn’t exist in the first place.

But when you have addict genetics as well as all the strife that comes with addiction, bringing a child into this world that may likely have those same genetics and will be exposed to an addict seems sociopathic to me.

 

[specialrelativity]

Consult a physician.

 

[fairnymph]

Two decades of opioid dependency here. 40s aged male.

Last time I was checked I was right on the border of the normal range for being low (~252 ).

Normal is 250 to 916.

I have zero interest in taking testosterone supplements because it’s linked to enlargement of the prostate.

How heavy is your use? I’m going to guess quite heavy, and daily right? Thanks for sharing this data point.

 

[fairnymph]

this is off topic and I’m probably going to get slammed for this, but a drug addict having kids is one of the most selfish things I can think of.

I’m a bit extreme in that I think all procreation is immorral because it drags a being into existence without consent. Not everyone enjoys life. Ppl have kids for selfish reason, to fill a void, not to help some non existent child come into existence that doesn’t even realize it doesn’t exist in the first place.

But when you have addict genetics as well as all the strife that comes with addiction, bringing a child into this world that may likely have those same genetics and will be exposed to an addict seems sociopathic to me.

Not everyone who uses drugs is a drug addict. Drug addicts can also overcome their addictions. Becoming a parent can provide the motivation necessary for overcoming addiction, although obviously that is not ideal. But there’s never a perfect time to have children and if every couple had waited for such a time, no one would exist. There are also some highly beneficial genes that are linked to addiction. There are also drug addicts who are good parents - not every drug addict is dysfunctional. How exactly are we defining addict?

I am very much a pronatalist, but I do not think that everyone should be having kids, and I’d say that most people having children these days are the wrong people and are not doing a good job of raising them. I think only people who can give children a good life and really want children should have them. But I think those people should absolutely be encouraged and supported. Life is a wonderful gift, and most people are glad to exist. For those who do not wish to, assisted suicide should be an option.

People have children for all kinds of reasons, including selfish ones, but there’s also a selfishness to not having children when you would be a good parent. So many people I know these days who would make good parents have chosen a childless life because they want to pursue personal hedonism. I can see a little that is more selfish than that. It means they’re only taking from society without giving anything back - and the demographic collapse coming due to falling birth rates will be disastrous indeed. If only the worst people had always reproduced and the best had never procreated, just think how much worse off humanity would be.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Not everyone who uses drugs is a drug addict. Drug addicts can also overcome their addictions. Becoming a parent can provide the motivation necessary for overcoming addiction, although obviously that is not ideal. But there’s never a perfect time to have children and if every couple had waited for such a time, no one would exist. There are also some highly beneficial genes that are linked to addiction. There are also drug addicts who are good parents - not every drug addict is dysfunctional. How exactly are we defining addict?

I am very much a pronatalist, but I do not think that everyone should be having kids, and I’d say that most people having children these days are the wrong people and are not doing a good job of raising them. I think only people who can give children a good life and really want children should have them. But I think those people should absolutely be encouraged and supported. Life is a wonderful gift, and most people are glad to exist. For those who do not wish to, assisted suicide should be an option.

People have children for all kinds of reasons, including selfish ones, but there’s also a selfishness to not having children when you would be a good parent. So many people I know these days who would make good parents have chosen a childless life because they want to pursue personal hedonism. I can see a little that is more selfish than that. It means they’re only taking from society without giving anything back - and the demographic collapse coming due to falling birth rates will be disastrous indeed. If only the worst people had always reproduced and the best had never procreated, just think how much worse off humanity would be.

Despite my personal view on the immorality of reproduction, above that, I believe in almost unlimited personal freedom, even if said choices have collateral damage, so I respect other people’s right to have children and my antinatalist views are mine.

I just know that yanking a life into existence instead of adopting one of millions of suffering children - the guilt would eat me alive. If the goal is to foster a life that otherwise would have been tragic, I to a life of joy - me creating a new life just to do that isn’t required and seems extra to me.

When I feel confident that I am strong enough to be responsible for an another human and raise them, I see it as a moral obligation to ease their suffering. Both adoption/child rearing and refraining from reproduction are all approached from the ultimate objective of minimizing suffering in the world. I don’t understand why people feel the need to produce more children when we already have too many here that are suffering and parentless and I can’t seem to see such a decision through any other lens than selfishness. If you could help me see it another way, my mind is open. I’m interested in trying to understand how it’s not selfish because I realize I am in the slim minority in my views vs the rest of humanity.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

How heavy is your use? I’m going to guess quite heavy, and daily right? Thanks for sharing this data point.

Not too heavy for the last decade. Never above 40 mg hydrocodone or 10 mg methadone per day.

Prior to that it was very heavy.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

no one would exist.

Thats going to happen no matter what eventually and that’s how it was for billions of years prior.

I see no problem at all with this. Benetars assymetry theorem lays this out in a very simple quantitative fashion.

Benatar's asymmetry argument - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[fairnymph]

Not too heavy for the last decade. Never above 40 mg hydrocodone or 10 mg methadone per day.

Wow, that’s not very much at all. Good job staying low.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Wow, that’s not very much at all. Good job staying low.

Right now I’m at 0. 9 days clean. Very happy about this but “suffering” is abundant right now obviously.

 

[fairnymph]

Thats going to happen no matter what eventually and that’s how it was for billions of years prior.

I see no problem at all with this. Benetars assymetry theorem lays this out in a very simple quantitative fashion.

Benatar's asymmetry argument - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We don’t know that. But even if we were destined to eventually go extinct, we should take advantage of life as much as we can until then. Just like even if there isn’t an afterlife - especially if there isn’t an afterlife - living the life you have, and living it well, is all the more important.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

We don’t know that. But even if we were destined to eventually go extinct, we should take advantage of life as much as we can until then. Just like even if there isn’t an afterlife - especially if there isn’t an afterlife - living the life you have, and living it well, is all the more important.

I just don’t see what the point is of being sentient for a blink of an eye (a lifetime is) when I didn’t miss it before I was born and I won’t miss it after I die because I won’t be sentient anymore upon death (I staunchly don’t believe in an afterlife and see living organisms as nothing more than chemical reactions).

And humans will absolutely become extinct, the sun will die, the solar system will die. The fabric of the local universe required for our life (atoms forming molecules) will be unable to exist as it was previously and is in other parts of space. Humanity will die.

Ppl always ask those like myself “well why don’t you just kill yourselves”? Some of us have different answers, some do sieze life and appreciate life for what it is; many do kill themselves. Me personally, I’ve mostly been living for my wife the past many years. I do have hope that I can maybe find a reason within myself to live and I’m working on that. But if suicide was more accepted by those around me and if they gave me their blessing; it would become more interesting. I’m not saying my life is total torture; it’s simply that nonexistence is the ultimate relief and “high” imo. But I always gravitated towards drugs that numb feeling like opioids and benzos rather than drugs that increase feeling like psychedelics or stimulants - so that’s just personal preference.

 

[fairnymph]

Right now I’m at 0. 9 days clean. Very happy about this but “suffering” is abundant right now obviously.

That’s really fantastic. I take it you want to stay clean for good, ideally?

I highly recommend you check out a book (I think every intelligent person capable of critical thought would benefit from reading it): https://www.amazon.com/Pragmatists-Guide-Life-Creating-Questions-ebook/dp/B079LRHPM7

If you can’t afford the $1, you can email them and they’ll send you a free copy.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

That’s really fantastic. I take it you want to stay clean for good, ideally?

I try not to think about that. “On day at a time” as the trite saying from recovery circles goes.

I definitely have my reservations, if my chronic pain condition should ever blow up; or I experience some other medical trauma, opioids are on the table. But that’s just future tripping about something that hasn’t happened yet and not something I should focus on.

 

[fairnymph]

I just don’t see what the point is of being sentient for a blink of an eye (a lifetime is) when I didn’t miss it before I was born and I won’t miss it after I die because I won’t be sentient anymore upon death (I staunchly don’t believe in an afterlife and see living organisms as nothing more than chemical reactions).

And humans will absolutely become extinct, the sun will die, the solar system will die. The fabric of the local universe required for our life (atoms forming molecules) will be unable to exist as it was previously and is in other parts of space. Humanity will die.

Ppl always ask those like myself “well why don’t you just kill yourselves”? Some of us have different answers, some do sieze life and appreciate life for what it is; many do kill themselves. Me personally, I’ve mostly been living for my wife the past many years. I do have hope that I can maybe find a reason within myself to live and I’m working on that. But if suicide was more accepted by those around me and if they gave me their blessing; it would become more interesting. I’m not saying my life is total torture; it’s simply that nonexistence is the ultimate relief and “high” imo. But I always gravitated towards drugs that numb feeling like opioids and benzos rather than drugs that increase feeling like psychedelics or stimulants - so that’s just personal preference.

With technology, we could go to other parts of the universe or even other universes or dimensions. We could also evolve into beings which don’t require the same resources to exist. There is so much we don’t know. And which we will never know if we don’t try.

Until very recently, I wanted to live forever. I still don’t really ever want to die, but I’m a lot more comfortable with the idea. I’m not afraid of dying. As soon as I’m no longer able to contribute, I plan to kill myself. But I don’t think that will happen anytime soon and I intend to live until at least 120. I also don’t believe that we only have one life I believe in reincarnation and some type of before/afterlife. But even if I didn’t, it wouldn’t change the way that I live my life. There is so much to experience and learn and it’s also so worth it. Even the hard parts. They make the sweet parts all the sweeter.

 

[fairnymph]

Despite my personal view on the immorality of reproduction, above that, I believe in almost unlimited personal freedom, even if said choices have collateral damage, so I respect other people’s right to have children and my antinatalist views are mine.

I just know that yanking a life into existence instead of adopting one of millions of suffering children - the guilt would eat me alive. If the goal is to foster a life that otherwise would have been tragic, I to a life of joy - me creating a new life just to do that isn’t required and seems extra to me.

When I feel confident that I am strong enough to be responsible for an another human and raise them, I see it as a moral obligation to ease their suffering. Both adoption/child rearing and refraining from reproduction are all approached from the ultimate objective of minimizing suffering in the world. I don’t understand why people feel the need to produce more children when we already have too many here that are suffering and parentless and I can’t seem to see such a decision through any other lens than selfishness. If you could help me see it another way, my mind is open. I’m interested in trying to understand how it’s not selfish because I realize I am in the slim minority in my views vs the rest of humanity.

I’m glad to hear that you respect personal freedom, unlike the crazy efilists.

Adoption is not the great option people seem to think it is. First of all people treat their own biological offspring better than they do adoptive kids. As well they should. Second, there’s not as many kids up for adoption as you might think - and most people don’t want to adopt older kids or disabled kids or dumb kids or ugly kids or children from other races - all of which is very reasonable imo. It’s very expensive and difficult to adopt a healthy newborn of the same race (especially if you’re white) with desirable traits. Getting approved for adoption is difficult, even for a long-term foster parents.

Having biological children is the only known way for people to be truly immortal. It is natural & good that we should want this. This is how humanity improved over time by selecting partners we like and producing more of the traits we want to see in the world. Selective breeding is essential for our continued improvement. Also, there are many health benefits for women to childbearing, and countless health benefits from breastfeeding, which isn’t possible with an adopted - women especially were born to have children, and generally suffer from not doing so. And what about the essential bonding that occurs from pregnancy on between mother and child? You can have that with embryo adoption - but I’m guessing that’s not the type of adoption that you consider worthwhile. The most well adjusted, secure confident happy people are generally the products of attachment parenting which requires thebonding from conception on. Adoption can never compete.

I’d also argue that without becoming parents people can’t truly maximise their personal growth. There’s not enough children up for adoption to enable that and adoption is already a subpar method of parenthood.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I’m glad to hear that you respect personal freedom, unlike the crazy efilists.

Adoption is not the great option people seem to think it is. First of all people treat their own biological offspring better than they do adoptive kids. As well they should. Second, there’s not as many kids up for adoption as you might think - and most people don’t want to adopt older kids or disabled kids or dumb kids or ugly kids or children from other races - all of which is very reasonable imo. It’s very expensive and difficult to adopt a healthy newborn of the same race (especially if you’re white) with desirable traits. Getting approved for adoption is difficult, even for a long-term foster parents.

Having biological children is the only known way for people to be truly immortal. It is natural & good that we should want this. This is how humanity improved over time by selecting partners we like and producing more of the traits we want to see in the world. Selective breeding is essential for our continued improvement. Also, there are many health benefits for women to childbearing, and countless health benefits from breastfeeding, which isn’t possible with an adopted - women especially were born to have children, and generally suffer from not doing so. And what about the essential bonding that occurs from pregnancy on between mother and child? You can have that with embryo adoption - but I’m guessing that’s not the type of adoption that you consider worthwhile. The most well adjusted, secure confident happy people are generally the products of attachment parenting which requires thebonding from conception on. Adoption can never compete.

I’d also argue that without becoming parents people can’t truly maximise their personal growth. There’s not enough children up for adoption to enable that and adoption is already a subpar method of parenthood.

We’re way off topic of this thread so if you want to continue this discussion please PM. Me.

I am efilist in that I think it’s the best way forward but I also don’t have a right to control others.

All I’ll say, despite being anecdotal, is that my sister was adopted and I am my parents biological offspring (my mother is mentally ill and an addict). My sister is the favorite; received just as much love as I did and has a far better relationship with my parents than I ever did.

“and most people don’t want to adopt older kids or disabled kids or dumb kids or ugly kids or children from other races - all of which is very reasonable imo”.

Seems like a lot of people reproducing have shit genetics and are blinded to that. Now that humans are monogamous and you don’t have only the alpha male breeding with hundreds of women; and now that humans aren’t subject to the brutality of natural selection; our genetics are mostly garbage if you compare it to say wolves that are still subject to these paradigms

And again, the above statement is all through the lens of selfishness of the parents. A truly selfless person would realize that parenting isn’t about themselves making themselves feel accomplished for raising some genetic superhuman ala Usain Bolt combined with Albert Einstein - anyone with genetics like that will be fine. A truly selfless person will want to help the disabled or unwanted.

 

[fairnymph]

We’re way off topic of this thread so if you want to continue this discussion please PM. Me.

I am efilist in that I think it’s the best way forward but I also don’t have a right to control others.

All I’ll say, despite being anecdotal, is that my sister was adopted and I am my parents biological offspring (my mother is mentally ill and an addict). My sister is the favorite; received just as much love as I did and has a far better relationship with my parents than I ever did.

“and most people don’t want to adopt older kids or disabled kids or dumb kids or ugly kids or children from other races - all of which is very reasonable imo”.

Seems like a lot of people reproducing have shit genetics and are blinded to that. Now that humans are monogamous and you don’t have only the alpha male breeding with hundreds of women; and now that humans aren’t subject to the brutality of natural selection; our genetics are mostly garbage if you compare it to say wolves that are still subject to these paradigms

And again, the above statement is all through the lens of selfishness of the parents. A truly selfless person would realize that parenting isn’t about themselves making themselves feel accomplished for raising some genetic superhuman ala Usain Bolt combined with Albert Einstein - anyone with genetics like that will be fine. A truly selfless person will want to help the disabled or unwanted.

I will PM you because I would like to ask some details about your family situation. But I’ll just end this by saying I don’t believe in real altruism/selflessness - I also don’t care about helping the disabled or unwanted. I’m 100% in agreement that the dysgenic trend is totally out of control. Pure monogamy can be damaging to although that’s not what we are seeing now. We had monogamy that was eugenic until the 1800s. Our culture has totally got off the rails though, especially everything to do with male- female mating dynamics.