Pregabalin/Gabapentin

[mycogabanyl]

Hello all,


I'm just wondering any tips or advice/words of encouragement for the issues in the title?


For reference, over the past 2 weeks l've taken 1500mg total of pregabalin sporadically, sometimes 500 or as low as 100. The 2 weeks before this, I was taking gabapentin/ lyrica everyday for like 10 or so days. 300-600mg randomly, sometimes more due to redoing during experiences.


A couple days ago I took my last 100mg after taking 5 days off. Before this, I was having mild physical withdrawal which sucked but I was able to thug it out.


But now that I'm out, l'm just having such intense cravings and mental withdrawal type feelings. I know it's normal and just gonna have to tough it out, but damn does it suck lol. I've never experienced this before with other drugs. And I have enough experience to know how my body and mind reacts.


Basically just wanted to vent/see if anyone has experience and what not?


Super jealous of you guys that are floating right now


Peace and love

 

[pnillyg]

Yo… you’re gunna be fine. It will suck (obviously everybody’s gauge of how sucky is different) but you’re gunna be fine. If you have the willpower or access tapering apparently works best but I’m one to always thug it out too. Typically for me gaba/benzos last 2-3weeks max but know they get better as the timeline goes on so I’m saying should be gone gone by 4 weeks (maybe mild weird things what we call PAWS) keep your hopes and head up cause each day it gets better and even if it’s getting worse (physically) IMO that means it’s getting better regarding to saturation levels.

All that being said I’ve never taken lyrica only gabapentin which I think are close so obviously with seizures being a very slight possibility then you’ll have to reintroduce a benzo/gaba…

But I’m no doc I’m just a dude tryna figure it out too

 

[Coffeeshroom]

I honestly have never exp any gaba wds or at least not what I have noticed.

I also cycle my usage and dosages regarding what I want.

Guess being a chronic benzo user helps.

Best of luck.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @mycogabanyl

Yea, withdrawal from Gabapentinoids can be pretty rough. It's a different flavor of withdrawal than Opioids or Alcohol, though it can be just as difficult.

It will be over in a few days. If you have only been using heavily for a few weeks, it shouldn't be hellacious. I know the anxiety/cravings suck. I also hate the Akathisia, which is probably the worst part. I advise doing a few squats and stretching your legs a little bit to help mitigate the feeling. I also find that hot showers can provide some temporary relief.

Gabapentin (Neurontin) is a better choice for folks with issues with compulsive dosing. As you're probably aware, there is a limit to how much Gabapentin a person can actually absorb in a given space of time. I've heard the figure of 5g/5,000mg in a 24 hour period. Not only that, once you are above 2,400mg in a 24 hour period, your ability to absorb Gabapentin drops exponentially with each increasing dose. This gives the drug a self-limiting quality that I actually think is great.

I have extensive experience with both of these. I've binged on Pregabalin (Lyrica).

Day 1 - 600mg
Day 2 - 800mg
Day 3 - 1200mg
Day 4 - 2,000mg
Day 5 - 3,000mg
Day 6 - 3,000mg
Day 7 - Out of Pregabalin

By day 6, you're experiencing diminished returns of an exponential nature. By day 6, 3,000mg feels like how 100mg-200mg would have felt on day one with no tolerance. My experience and your experience are not uncommon with Pregabalin. The problem is, you shoot your tolerance up extremely fast while also using up huge amounts of medication in the process.

For a lot of people, this is how they start with major Gabapentinoid addiction/dependence. I know people who have been stuck in a cycle of binging/extreme sickness for years. They'll be alright for 5 days, run out of money/drugs and be bedridden for 2 days. These people will take giant doses of Gabapentin just for a little bit of relief from Pregabalin withdrawal.

My point is, Pregabalin is stronger and without limit in terms of absorption. This is nothing but bullshit for the user though. They could max out on a lower level of Gabapentin. They will hit the same wall in which they aren't getting effects anymore, whereas a person with Pregabalin will hit the same exact wall, except they will have to deal with the issues of a larger tolerance = worse withdrawal.

Basically, for an addict who can't control their intake, I would argue they can save themselves a lot of pain by just sticking to Gabapentin. This is something you might consider in the future. This cycle is only going to get worse as time goes on.

 

[pnillyg]

Hey @mycogabanyl

Yea, withdrawal from Gabapentinoids can be pretty rough. It's a different flavor of withdrawal than Opioids or Alcohol, though it can be just as difficult.

It will be over in a few days. If you have only been using heavily for a few weeks, it shouldn't be hellacious. I know the anxiety/cravings suck. I also hate the Akathisia, which is probably the worst part. I advise doing a few squats and stretching your legs a little bit to help mitigate the feeling. I also find that hot showers can provide some temporary relief.

Gabapentin (Neurontin) is a better choice for folks with issues with compulsive dosing. As you're probably aware, there is a limit to how much Gabapentin a person can actually absorb in a given space of time. I've heard the figure of 5g/5,000mg in a 24 hour period. Not only that, once you are above 2,400mg in a 24 hour period, your ability to absorb Gabapentin drops exponentially with each increasing dose. This gives the drug a self-limiting quality that I actually think is great.

I have extensive experience with both of these. I've binged on Pregabalin (Lyrica).

Day 1 - 600mg
Day 2 - 800mg
Day 3 - 1200mg
Day 4 - 2,000mg
Day 5 - 3,000mg
Day 6 - 3,000mg
Day 7 - Out of Pregabalin

By day 6, you're experiencing diminished returns of an exponential nature. By day 6, 3,000mg feels like how 100mg-200mg would have felt on day one with no tolerance. My experience and your experience are not uncommon with Pregabalin. The problem is, you shoot your tolerance up extremely fast while also using up huge amounts of medication in the process.

For a lot of people, this is how they start with major Gabapentinoid addiction/dependence. I know people who have been stuck in a cycle of binging/extreme sickness for years. They'll be alright for 5 days, run out of money/drugs and be bedridden for 2 days. These people will take giant doses of Gabapentin just for a little bit of relief from Pregabalin withdrawal.

My point is, Pregabalin is stronger and without limit in terms of absorption. This is nothing but bullshit for the user though. They could max out on a lower level of Gabapentin. They will hit the same wall in which they aren't getting effects anymore, whereas a person with Pregabalin will hit the same exact wall, except they will have to deal with the issues of a larger tolerance = worse withdrawal.

Basically, for an addict who can't control their intake, I would argue they can save themselves a lot of pain by just sticking to Gabapentin. This is something you might consider in the future. This cycle is only going to get worse as time goes on.

You seem to have a large expertise with gabapentin, I’m currently detoxing off of kratom after taking 10-25gpd for a few months and it’s pretty gnarly. Been using ketamine, gabapentin, and the very occasional benzo but my question is, how long can I use the gabapentin and how much before I trade one physical dependence for the other? It’s helps so much with the body aches and restless… right now taking 300mg morning 600mg afternoon and 600mg before bed….

 

[Keif' Richards]

Wow @pnillyg your compliment regarding my Gabapentin knowledge... well, that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me, so thank you.

Something I've come to understand about Opioid withdrawal is that it's all wicked shitty. Once you get past a certain point, I'd say the point where withdrawal is so bad that it makes you totally non-functional, it all sucks. It can be Fentanyl, Heroin or Oxycodone, everyone I meet describes it as hell. My point is, yes withdrawal can be more potent from one case to another, but just because I was using several grams of Heroin a day or taking 100mg Methadone a day, our experiences are still closely related.

First off, it's important you understand Gabapentin's bioavailability. It's said that a maximum of 300mg-400mg can be absorbed in a given sitting. You might then ask the question, "well why then do they make Gabapentin in strength of 600mg-800mg?" and that would be a good question. This is possibly an example of how our pharmaceutical industry is not always comprehensive with its research. I imagine they saw what 300mg could do and then extrapolated it believing the potency would double. At any rate, it's better to take doses of 300mg or less. When a higher dose is needed, you wait ~45 minutes and then take another 300mg. Also, the bioavailability is practically doubled when the drug is taken with food in your stomach, preferably something fatty. I used milk and peanut butter when I was sick and didn't want to eat.

Next, you're consuming a moderate dosage right now. The body can only absorb ~5g Gabapentin per day, so you're approximately halfway there for reference. I find that the serious relief from withdrawal symptoms will last for 7-10 days. If you start taking higher dosages, you're likely gonna run out of serious benefit after 5-7 days. This is from personal experience. I've been extremely sick and consumed as much Gabapentin as I could. It worked well like this for 3 full days. Day 4 I knew I was losing steam. Day 5 was the last day of significant relief. Days 6 and 7 were like an afterglow where I knew I was getting some relief, but only 10%-15% at most of what I had gotten on day 1.

You can extend this to 10 days if you're responsible with the dosage. I advise you to be strategic with your time. While you are getting some relief from the Gabapentin, that is the time to go through your withdrawal process from the Kratom. You only have so many days of help available to you. It can be tempting to feel good, but still want to feel great and decide to take some Kratom. Try not to do that.

After 10 days of consistent usage at these moderate dosages, you will then need to take ~5 days off to get back close to your starting point and you'll need to take at least 3 off if you want 3 more days of solid relief. If you take 5 full days off you can kind of restart the process but you're "clock" is gonna be reduced to 7 days this time around. That's sort of how this stuff worked for me. I've used it almost 10 times to withdraw from different Opioids. This is all from personal experience.

If you have any other questions, feel free. There's no point in me having to experience and learn this shit by trial and error not to share it with the people who need it.

 

[pnillyg]

Well i was right you are incredibly well spoken and educated on many topics especially this one. And i feel the same way about what i have hone through. Countless detoxes off of buprenorphine, oxycodone, morphine, and almost every benzo sometimes with the opiates. All painful beyond belief and all great learning lessons. My dr said while the body aches, pain, sickness persists (this is my first time kicking kratom but i can never taper anything always colt turkey) to take up to 600mg 3 x per day but you would recommend from what i understand 300mg 3 x per day or even 300mg 6 x per day if needed? Again thank you for all of your information. Regarding the bioavailability comment, if they make 600mg capsules and the bioavailability is only 300-400mg per sitting wouldn’t that mean that from a 300mg capsule you would only get 100mgs and from a 600mg capsule would only yield about 300mg? These are not exact calculations at all nor do i know the bioavailability % im just curious as i am always wanting to learn more from people with experience (since the doctors are just reading from a book).

 

[DrMike]

Well i was right you are incredibly well spoken and educated on many topics especially this one. And i feel the same way about what i have hone through. Countless detoxes off of buprenorphine, oxycodone, morphine, and almost every benzo sometimes with the opiates. All painful beyond belief and all great learning lessons. My dr said while the body aches, pain, sickness persists (this is my first time kicking kratom but i can never taper anything always colt turkey) to take up to 600mg 3 x per day but you would recommend from what i understand 300mg 3 x per day or even 300mg 6 x per day if needed? Again thank you for all of your information. Regarding the bioavailability comment, if they make 600mg capsules and the bioavailability is only 300-400mg per sitting wouldn’t that mean that from a 300mg capsule you would only get 100mgs and from a 600mg capsule would only yield about 300mg? These are not exact calculations at all nor do i know the bioavailability % im just curious as i am always wanting to learn more from people with experience (since the doctors are just reading from a book).

These figures sound right to me (when it comes to the bioavailability of gabapentin). I used to be taking 900mg 3x/day, and was reduced to 300mg 3x/day, and didn't have any negative effects... So I think that when I was taking the large dose of 2700mg/day, it wasn't even getting absorbed. It was just messing with my kidneys and bladder, so unfortunately I needed to get a catheter to be able to pee after taking that much everyday. They diagnosed me with "acute urinary retention". Has anybody else experienced trouble urinating while taking high-dose neurontin? Thanks for the great information Keif' Richards!

 

[pnillyg]

These figures sound right to me (when it comes to the bioavailability of gabapentin). I used to be taking 900mg 3x/day, and was reduced to 300mg 3x/day, and didn't have any negative effects... So I think that when I was taking the large dose of 2700mg/day, it wasn't even getting absorbed. It was just messing with my kidneys and bladder, so unfortunately I needed to get a catheter to be able to pee after taking that much everyday. They diagnosed me with "acute urinary retention". Has anybody else experienced trouble urinating while taking high-dose neurontin? Thanks for the great information Keif' Richards!

Oh wow so neurontin gave you these bladder issues or there’s a chance that the timing of it happens to be when taking the gabapentin?

 

[DrMike]

Oh wow so neurontin gave you these bladder issues or there’s a chance that the timing of it happens to be when taking the gabapentin?

At the time, I was also taking hydroxyzine 50mg 3x/day. The hospital said that the anticholinergic effects of it were adding to the issue. They discontinued the hydroxyzine, and lowered my gabapentin intake from 2700mg/day to 900mg/day, and I was able to get "close" to normal after the cessation of hydroxyzine and lowered dosage of gabapentin. (it was still a chore for me to urinate after this incident, and I was always in the bathroom for 15+ minutes waiting for everything to come out completely) In the past few months I've been lowering my dosage of gabapentin even more, and the situation is getting much better. So now I know for sure that the gabapentins are doing something to my kidneys and/or bladder. Not being able to go to the bathroom for 8+ hours was extremely scary for me, and I'm very glad that I have found the culprits. Pregabalin also does a similar thing, but it is not as bad IMO, maybe bc the body doesn't have to process as much material as when taking an equivalent dosage of pregabalin? (the gabapentin 300mg capsules are very large and contain a lot of stuff compared to the pregablin capsules) I'm glad to have almost completely gotten over this issue, as it is very embarassing, and almost impossible for me to go while in public. I'm way too young to have to walk around with a foley catheter installed.

 

[pnillyg]

At the time, I was also taking hydroxyzine 50mg 3x/day. The hospital said that the anticholinergic effects of it were adding to the issue. They discontinued the hydroxyzine, and lowered my gabapentin intake from 2700mg/day to 900mg/day, and I was able to get "close" to normal after the cessation of hydrozyzine and lowered dosage of gabapentin. (it was still a chore for me to urinate after this incident, and I was always in the bathroom for 15+ minutes waiting for everything to come out completely) In the past few months I've been lowering my dosage of gabapentin even more, and the situation is getting much better. So now I know for sure that the gabas are doing something to my kidneys and/or bladder. Not being able to go to the bathroom for 8+ hours was extremely scary for me, and I'm very glad that I have found the culprits. Pregabalin also does a similar thing, but it is not as bad IMO, maybe bc the body doesn't have to process as much material as when taking an equivalent dosage of pregabalin? (the gabapentin 300mg capsules are very large and contain a lot of stuff compared to the pregablin capsules) I'm glad to have almost completely gotten over this issue, as it is very embarassing, and almost impossible for me to go while in public. I'm way too young to have to walk around with a foley catheter installed.

That hits home.. more than you know.

 

[DrMike]

Wow. Well I hope that you find relief from any issues you may have when it comes to that area. It's truly the pits.

 

[pnillyg]

Having any sort of extreme or chronic condition or pain at a younger age is hard to come to terms with that i do know. And thank you for blessings

 

[pnillyg]

and you as well my friend

Wow. Well I hope that you find relief from any issues you may have when it comes to that area. It's truly the pits.

 

[DrMike]

Having any sort of extreme or chronic condition or pain at a younger age is hard to come to terms with that i do know. And thank you for blessings

You're very welcome... I'm sure I feel some similar pain as you!

 

[VerbalTruist]

You should be banned from this site because this is a recovery site and it's clear you shouldn't be here!

This is a HARM REDUCTION site. We have a recovery section. BDD is for people trying to use drugs safely. If you can’t keep it to yourself regarding recovery outside of H&R you’ll start seeing points.

DBAA.

 

[dopamimetic]

I honestly have never exp any gaba wds or at least not what I have noticed.

Same here, been scripted 600mg/d and took it for at least half a year, would say rather a full year. Stopped cold without withdrawal (it stopped working anyways) after a high dosage (1.6-1.8g, ingested because of chasing the original high) gave me a probably grand mal seizure and I woke up with stretched legs/feet, couldn't walk for 3 days and had such bad memory issues that I literally forgot what I was thinking some minutes ago. This is an effect I also got when taken as prescribed but with much less intensity. Still annoying. I wish there was a legal drug with effects similar to pregabalin but with less tolerance issues.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

Hey @mycogabanyl

Yea, withdrawal from Gabapentinoids can be pretty rough. It's a different flavor of withdrawal than Opioids or Alcohol, though it can be just as difficult.

It will be over in a few days. If you have only been using heavily for a few weeks, it shouldn't be hellacious. I know the anxiety/cravings suck. I also hate the Akathisia, which is probably the worst part. I advise doing a few squats and stretching your legs a little bit to help mitigate the feeling. I also find that hot showers can provide some temporary relief.

Gabapentin (Neurontin) is a better choice for folks with issues with compulsive dosing. As you're probably aware, there is a limit to how much Gabapentin a person can actually absorb in a given space of time. I've heard the figure of 5g/5,000mg in a 24 hour period. Not only that, once you are above 2,400mg in a 24 hour period, your ability to absorb Gabapentin drops exponentially with each increasing dose. This gives the drug a self-limiting quality that I actually think is great.

I have extensive experience with both of these. I've binged on Pregabalin (Lyrica).

Day 1 - 600mg
Day 2 - 800mg
Day 3 - 1200mg
Day 4 - 2,000mg
Day 5 - 3,000mg
Day 6 - 3,000mg
Day 7 - Out of Pregabalin

By day 6, you're experiencing diminished returns of an exponential nature. By day 6, 3,000mg feels like how 100mg-200mg would have felt on day one with no tolerance. My experience and your experience are not uncommon with Pregabalin. The problem is, you shoot your tolerance up extremely fast while also using up huge amounts of medication in the process.

For a lot of people, this is how they start with major Gabapentinoid addiction/dependence. I know people who have been stuck in a cycle of binging/extreme sickness for years. They'll be alright for 5 days, run out of money/drugs and be bedridden for 2 days. These people will take giant doses of Gabapentin just for a little bit of relief from Pregabalin withdrawal.

My point is, Pregabalin is stronger and without limit in terms of absorption. This is nothing but bullshit for the user though. They could max out on a lower level of Gabapentin. They will hit the same wall in which they aren't getting effects anymore, whereas a person with Pregabalin will hit the same exact wall, except they will have to deal with the issues of a larger tolerance = worse withdrawal.

Basically, for an addict who can't control their intake, I would argue they can save themselves a lot of pain by just sticking to Gabapentin. This is something you might consider in the future. This cycle is only going to get worse as time goes on.

Same here, been scripted 600mg/d and took it for at least half a year, would say rather a full year. Stopped cold without withdrawal (it stopped working anyways) after a high dosage (1.6-1.8g, ingested because of chasing the original high) gave me a probably grand mal seizure and I woke up with stretched legs/feet, couldn't walk for 3 days and had such bad memory issues that I literally forgot what I was thinking some minutes ago. This is an effect I also got when taken as prescribed but with much less intensity. Still annoying. I wish there was a legal drug with effects similar to pregabalin but with less tolerance issues.

Buf if seizures are involved, no matter the med, get to a doctor. Something is not right