RCs Which is the worst GABAergic sedative you have ever taken? (Benzos, Z-Drugs, ludes, Phenibut, GBL etc.)

[Mana0909]

@Mana0909 That's a beautifully detailed response, I've got some IRL obligations I need to head out for but I'll respond to this in more detail when I return. Your descriptions of chlordiazepoxide, but especially of temazepam make me want to give them a shot. At some point I'm sure I'll stumble across some temazepam, it sounds heavenly. Your description of it reminds me heavily of etizolam, even deschloroetizolam sounds somewhat similar in my opinion. Have you ever used a thienodiazepine/thienotriazolodiazepine like those? They replace a benzene ring in the structure with a thiophene ring and it leads to higher euphoria in most cases, while maintaining a long duration and high potency.

I'm also shocked at how high of a dose of tetrazepam is necessary for it to work. Funny enough, researching it after you mentioned it got me a little bit concerned. Recently there's been a supply of bromonordiazepam (aka desalkylgidazepam) and I've absolutely fallen in love with it. They only vary by the fact that where bromonordiazepam has a bromine, tetrazepam has a chlorine. Given tetrazepam's tendency for adverse effects and the understudied nature of bromonordiazepam taken on its own (as opposed to just being a diazepam metabolite, which it is) I'm going to begin exercising more caution with it. I took 45-50mg of it on no tolerance a few days ago to remain in this state of feeling like I'm being bathed in golden sunshine for around a week straight, slowly fading away. Most people don't exceed 10-15mg of it, but I wanted to see what a megadose of it would feel like given the fact that I don't black out anymore on even 20+mg of alprazolam after a months long tolerance break from all GABAergics.

That's another question I have for you actually (and any other BLers reading), have you noticed that your capacity to black out has faded as it occurred more and more? Teenaged me once cleared ~100 2mg alprazolam bars in a night and blacked out for example, and would often do similar shit because when in a benzo blackout, my actions are just me calling my friends and being like "Hey homie just so you know, I love you like a brother", all that sappy shit. Never anything belligerent like GHB or alcohol blackouts can induce. Nowadays it's incredibly difficult for me to halt memory formation with specifically benzos for some reason. I often take weeks-to-months long tolerance breaks in between periods of use too, which is part of why this is so surprising to me that the blackouts seem to become harder and harder to induce, given that it's not like I require more for the same effect. The last time I seriously blacked out was from mixing 500mg of carisoprodol with 1mg (for those reading quickly, mg, not ug) of LSD. Turns out carisoprodol wildly potentiates LSD, and even then it wasn't a full blackout, it was a kind of spottily on-and-off deal if that makes sense. My boyfriend who weighs ~68kg (I'm ~100kg) took 600ug of LSD alongside 500mg of carisoprodol and his memory simply turned back on the next morning. The trip was absolutely insane, felt more like 2-4mg of LSD alongside something like GHB or benzos in my personal opinion.

Also @Mana0909 I greatly appreciate the detail and depth of experience and all communicating with you, thank you for sharing your experiences and the knowledge synthesized from those experieneces not just with me but for future readers of this thread on BL!

Thank you for your kind words! I'm glad you found my response detailed and helpful.

It's always great to connect with someone who shares a similar interest in these substances.

Regarding your question about thienodiazepines/thienotriazolodiazepines like etizolam and deschloroetizolam, yes, I have some experience with them. These compounds are indeed fascinating because they replace a benzene ring with a thiophene ring, which often results in higher euphoria while maintaining a long duration and high potency. Etizolam, for example, is known for its strong anxiolytic and hypnotic effects, and many users report a pleasant euphoria that is not as pronounced with traditional benzodiazepines. Deschloroetizolam, on the other hand, is a bit less well-known but still offers similar benefits. Both of these substances can be quite effective, but as always, caution is necessary due to their potency and potential for dependence.

Your experience with tetrazepam and bromonordiazepam is quite interesting. Tetrazepam is indeed known for its muscle relaxant properties, but it can require higher doses for some individuals to achieve the desired effects. The fact that bromonordiazepam has a bromine atom instead of chlorine like tetrazepam does make it slightly different, but both share similar properties as metabolites of diazepam. It's wise to exercise caution with bromonordiazepam, especially given its understudied nature. Your experience with a high dose of 45-50mg is quite significant, and it's good to hear that you are considering the potential risks.

As for your question about blackouts, it's not uncommon for users to develop a tolerance to the blackout effects of benzodiazepines over time. This can happen even with long tolerance breaks. The brain's adaptation to these substances can result in a reduced likelihood of experiencing blackouts, even at higher doses. Your experience with alprazolam and the lack of blackouts despite high doses is a testament to this phenomenon. Please always keep in mind that all GABA acting substances are highly dangerous, addictive and develop a high Tolerance after just a short amount of time. Mixing substances like carisoprodol and LSD can indeed lead to unpredictable effects, and it's interesting to hear how carisoprodol potentiated the LSD trip for both you and your boyfriend.

It's always important to approach these substances with caution and awareness of their potential effects and risks. Sharing experiences and information like this can help others make informed decisions and stay safe.

EDIT: when you search for even deeper informations, the perfect website for that is: "PsychonautWiki" and see you later, take care of yourself and ave a great time

Stay safe and have a wonderful Christmas Eve, Mana0909

 

[Quasimoto]

It suppresses your anxiety so much that you're absolutely emotionless, and this causes dysphoria in many cases.

I consider this a positive effect, because I have major anxiety issues and have been diagnosed with GAD, SPD, PD and agoraphobia. I was 17 years old when I was first prescribed alprazolam from a psychiatrist, 2mg per day nonetheless. It does not give me any dysphoria.

I consider alprazolam my favorite benzo because it seems to produce the most downstream secondary dopamine release. It's the only benzo which I've tried that I would say produces an innate dopaminergic euphoria.

My second favorite would probably be lorazepam. But I have only tried around 7 or 8 different benzos.

I quite enjoy barbiturates as well, but have never taken them outside of a detox clinic. Unfortunately I have never had the desired pleasure of trying quinazolinones. GHB and it's analogs I found to be rather boring, I do not experience any of the euphoria or aphrodisiac properties some people describe. I have no major opinion on Z-drugs, either, although I did enjoy zolpidem other than it's propensity for delusional behavior. I loved pregabalin (very dopaminergic), and muscimol should get a minor mention as well, particularly if you combine it with benzos.

Better options are:

• Temazepam
• Tetrazepam
• Clonazepam
• Flunitrazepam

Those are not as good as the four above, but also solid:

• Oxazepam
• Diazepam
• Chlordiazepoxid
• Rilmazafone

And those are as bad as alprazolam:

• Lorazepam (that's a tiny bit better than Alprazolam)
• Bretazenil (that's on the same level as alprazolam)

Especially the hypnotically acting benzos are the ones that cause the most euphoria.

Remember, everyone reacts to benzos differently due to genetic variations of their GABAa subunits, as well as mental issues they need them for.

Some of the benzos you list as good or better options personally give me mania, depression, etc, and I would consider very inferior.

If there is one tenet of harm reduction that seems to get more true and important to me over the last 20 years is the proverbial saying, "Everyone reacts to drugs differently". When I heard this as a kid, I was like, "yeah right, whatever... some probably just can't handle their shit". But no, it is true in the most literal sense, it is all of physically, neurologically, genetically, psychologically, and even experientially true.

what the WD is like from phenibut, would you mind articulating upon it?

I'm probably the worst to ask. It happened like 8 years ago and have a very hazy memory, I was still recovering from a psychosis which occurred several months prior from unrelated drugs, and various other things that fog my memory or whatever.

All I remember is I had only been using about 1g-1.5g per day for about 6 months. I ceased use and started taking copious amounts of chlordiazepoxide, but still felt this weird withdrawal which included anxiety, restlessness, and other symptoms that I won't speculate on because it could have been something else.

Anyways, my point is that I barely felt anything at all from those doses and was not expecting to experience any significant withdrawal at all.

Phenibut never did anything good for me. The doses required for me to feel anything were basically overdoses and gave me AWFUL side effects. Fuck that drug. Frankly one of the worst drugs I've ever tried.

 

[canadianpeduser]

I’ve learned a lot reading all of this, fantastic thread btw!

I have used GHB many times. Was lucky to have a good connection when I used to live in Ottawa. Pretty dirt cheap. Also fairly certain the times I’d grab a bottle of it and it was a thinner consistency; this is when I believe I actually got GBL instead of fully synthesized GHB. I believe there was a potassium nitrate or something like that missing from it. But I couldn’t care at the time.

The supposed GBL hit way harder and faster but the buzz would dip off quicker. I preferred when it was actually GHB-much thicker even though the taste was disgusting. I found my sweet spot to be 2 1/2 water bottle caps. Anything more it would be unmanageable or I’d get sick or blackout. But 2 caps- 2 1/2 caps- perfect.
I used to compare it to being happy drunk and on E at the same time. But one time I took too much probably 5 caps give or take and I threw up all over my apartment after laying on the floor out of it laughing spastically and saying things that didn’t make sense (according to my ex).
So G (either GBL or GHB) is probably in my top 5 favourite buzzes if it’s dosed in the right range for you personally cause everybody’s gonna be different and there will always be outliers that need much less than I did (or more).

I took lyrica (Pregabalin) once with an ex when we ran out of opiates - and was pleasantly surprised at how much fun we had and how good it felt… I believe I took like 10 x 150mg capsules. Could be wrong on the dosage of the caps it’s been a long time now. It was a happy drunk-ish buzz. I have also seen buddies of mine take literally handfuls of probably 20 or more Gabapentin 300s at a time and it wasn’t a pretty site. I have always had access to lyrica but never really bothered since that one night with the ex. Maybe I’ll take a couple tonight and smoke a joint and see how it feels. Odd how over the years and all the shit I’ve done that I’ve only taken lyrica once XD.

Anyways good thread thanks

 

[Mana0909]

consider alprazolam my favorite benzo because it seems to produce the most downstream secondary dopamine release. It's the only benzo which I've tried that I would say produces an innate dopaminergic euphoria.

My second favorite would probably be lorazepam. But I have only tried around 7 or 8 different benzos.

I quite enjoy barbiturates as well, but have never taken them outside of a detox clinic. Unfortunately I have never had the desired pleasure of trying quinazolinones. GHB and it's analogs I found to be rather boring, I do not experience any of the euphoria or aphrodisiac properties some people describe. I have no major opinion on Z-drugs, either, although I did enjoy zolpidem other than it's propensity for delusional behavior. I loved pregabalin (very dopaminergic), and muscimol should get a minor mention as well, particularly if you combine it with benzos.

Sorry but that info isn't right.

Alprazolam is not the most dopaminergic benzodiazepine; that is still Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol).

Quote from NeuroLaunch: "To answer the question, 'Does Xanax directly release dopamine?' we need to examine the available scientific evidence. Current research suggests that Xanax does not directly cause the release of dopamine in the brain. Unlike stimulants or opioids, which have a more direct impact on the dopaminergic system, Xanax’s primary mechanism of action is through the GABAergic system."

Another quote from a modern study: "It may downregulate the production of dopamine or reduce the number of dopamine receptors."

On top of that, when taking benzodiazepines, they stop producing dopamine through other drugs, meaning when you snort speed, it does not increase your dopamine levels. In studies from 10 years ago, many thought that benzodiazepines increase dopamine levels, but that has been debunked as false in 2021. Dopaminergic substances are Mephenaqualone/Methaqualone (Quaaludes).

Yes, drugs act differently from person to person, but pleasure has nothing to do with dopamine. Benzodiazepines are mostly reducing total dopamine levels, especially when taken long-term.

Studies have shown that alprazolam does not directly release dopamine in the brain. Instead, it works primarily through the GABAergic system, which inhibits the release of stimulating neurotransmitters like dopamine. Additionally, research indicates that alprazolam may downregulate dopamine production or reduce the number of dopamine receptors.

Furthermore, benzodiazepines can interfere with the dopaminergic effects of other drugs. For example, when taken with stimulants like amphetamines, benzodiazepines can prevent the increase in dopamine levels typically caused by these substances.

In summary, alprazolam is not a dopaminergic benzodiazepine and is considered one of the most dysphoric due to its emotional blunting effects and potential to cause depressive symptoms.

EDIT2: about the Benzo + Pregabalin - yes it can cause much euphoria I agree, BUT

Combining pregabalin and benzodiazepines is not particularly dopaminergic, meaning they do not directly promote the release of dopamine in the brain. Pregabalin primarily acts on the calcium channels, reducing neuronal excitability. This leads to calming and anxiolytic effects, but it does not significantly increase dopamine levels in the brain.

Benzodiazepines like Alprazolam (Xanax) also act on GABA receptors by enhancing the effects of the neurotransmitter GABA. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter that reduces neuronal activity and has a calming effect. Studies have shown that benzodiazepines do not directly increase dopamine release. In fact, they may downregulate dopamine production or reduce the number of dopamine receptors.

In summary, pregabalin and benzodiazepines are not dopaminergic, and Alprazolam (Xanax) can even stop dopamine production. This explains why these substances do not have the same euphoric effects as dopaminergic substances like Mephenaqualone/Methaqualone (Quaaludes), GBL, GHB, 1,4 Butandiol, Butan, Phenibut, F-Phenibut. At least what studies and most of the users report, always keep that in mind.


I hope this helps. Stay safe and take care!


Stay safe and have a nice Christmas Eve, Mana0909

 

[Mana0909]

I’ve learned a lot reading all of this, fantastic thread btw!

I have used GHB many times. Was lucky to have a good connection when I used to live in Ottawa. Pretty dirt cheap. Also fairly certain the times I’d grab a bottle of it and it was a thinner consistency; this is when I believe I actually got GBL instead of fully synthesized GHB. I believe there was a potassium nitrate or something like that missing from it. But I couldn’t care at the time.

The supposed GBL hit way harder and faster but the buzz would dip off quicker. I preferred when it was actually GHB-much thicker even though the taste was disgusting. I found my sweet spot to be 2 1/2 water bottle caps. Anything more it would be unmanageable or I’d get sick or blackout. But 2 caps- 2 1/2 caps- perfect.
I used to compare it to being happy drunk and on E at the same time. But one time I took too much probably 5 caps give or take and I threw up all over my apartment after laying on the floor out of it laughing spastically and saying things that didn’t make sense (according to my ex).
So G (either GBL or GHB) is probably in my top 5 favourite buzzes if it’s dosed in the right range for you personally cause everybody’s gonna be different and there will always be outliers that need much less than I did (or more).

I took lyrica (Pregabalin) once with an ex when we ran out of opiates - and was pleasantly surprised at how much fun we had and how good it felt… I believe I took like 10 x 150mg capsules. Could be wrong on the dosage of the caps it’s been a long time now. It was a happy drunk-ish buzz. I have also seen buddies of mine take literally handfuls of probably 20 or more Gabapentin 300s at a time and it wasn’t a pretty site. I have always had access to lyrica but never really bothered since that one night with the ex. Maybe I’ll take a couple tonight and smoke a joint and see how it feels. Odd how over the years and all the shit I’ve done that I’ve only taken lyrica once XD.

Anyways good thread thanks

Thank you very much for your kind words, im also insanely happy to have created this thread.
It's always fascinating to hear about different perspectives and personal stories.

Regarding GHB and GBL, your observations are spot on. GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyrate) and GBL (gamma-butyrolactone) are closely related substances, but they have some key differences. GBL is a prodrug of GHB, meaning it converts into GHB in the body. This conversion process can cause GBL to hit harder and faster, but the effects may not last as long as those of GHB. Studies have shown that GBL is more potent and has a quicker onset of action compared to GHB. However, GBL can also be more toxic and has a higher potential for abuse.

Your description of the effects of GHB and GBL aligns with what is commonly reported. GHB is often described as producing a feeling of euphoria, relaxation, and sociability, similar to being "happy drunk" or on MDMA. However, dosing is critical, as taking too much can lead to adverse effects such as nausea, vomiting, and blackouts.

As for Pregabalin (Lyrica), it is known for its anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, and analgesic properties. It can produce a "happy drunk-ish" buzz, as you described, and is sometimes used recreationally for its euphoric effects. However, it's important to be cautious with dosing, as taking too much can lead to unpleasant side effects and potential dependence.

It's interesting to hear about your experiences with Gabapentin as well. Gabapentin is similar to Pregabalin but generally considered less potent. Taking large doses of Gabapentin can lead to significant sedation and other side effects.

Thank you again for sharing your insights. It's always valuable to hear about different experiences and perspectives. Stay safe and enjoy your evening!


Stay safe and have a nice Christmas Eve, Mana0909

 

[Esperighanto]

@canadianpeduser I find your mention of the street GHB's viscosity interesting. GHB should never be "thick" in any way, shape or form, even as it's hygroscopically accumulating water. When people have it as a salt, it turns into a goo that's unironically impossible to dose. Very VERY dangerous of that chemist to let that shit out onto the streets.

GBL tastes more like brake cleaner, but both GHB and GBL are liquids that are essentially like uh, how would I put this, GHB is like saline and GBL is like some shit you'd drink in an auto shop if you were trying to commit suicide, just by taste. Feels pretty good. 1,4-BDO is also kind of brake cleaner-ish.

 

[Quasimoto]

Sorry but that info isn't right.

Alprazolam is not the most dopaminergic benzodiazepine; that is still Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol).

I never claimed that... I said it is the most dopaminergic benzo I have personally tried, which is the topic of the title in this thread.

 

[canadianpeduser]

@canadianpeduser I find your mention of the street GHB's viscosity interesting. GHB should never be "thick" in any way, shape or form, even as it's hygroscopically accumulating water. When people have it as a salt, it turns into a goo that's unironically impossible to dose. Very VERY dangerous of that chemist to let that shit out onto the streets.

GBL tastes more like brake cleaner, but both GHB and GBL are liquids that are essentially like uh, how would I put this, GHB is like saline and GBL is like some shit you'd drink in an auto shop if you were trying to commit suicide, just by taste. Feels pretty good. 1,4-BDO is also kind of brake cleaner-ish.

You’re probably right I could have them mixed up but when I researched it; I had just assumed the thicker “more goopy but still what I’d call a liquid” stuff I presumed it was the fully synthesized solution. Maybe the thinner stuff was the additional potassium molecule it needed. Both got me pretty evenly buzzed. I was told that when you shake it really good the bubbles should stay for a while which is how I tested each batch in the beginning. Pretty naive way of calculating what I should put in my body I’ll admit lmfao.

 

[Mana0909]

I said it is the most dopaminergic benzo I have personally tried, which is the topic of the title in this thread.

But no Benzodiazepine is really dopaminergic.
Yes of course for you it can feel like that Alprazolam is the the one causing most euphoria, but that has to do with GABA and the Calcium Channels.

Benzodiazipines, mostly reduce dopamine. Only a very very tiny select few don't, but they are very very rare and also only cause mild dopaminergic feelings

Here is a more detailed summary:

"Benzodiazepines primarily work by enhancing the activity of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) at the GABA-A receptors in the brain. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, which means it reduces neuronal excitability and calms the nervous system. This action helps to alleviate anxiety, induce sedation, and relax muscles.

The reason benzodiazepines do not increase dopamine levels is that their primary mechanism of action is through the GABAergic system, not the dopaminergic system. When benzodiazepines bind to GABA-A receptors, they enhance the inhibitory effects of GABA, leading to a decrease in neuronal activity. This inhibition can indirectly affect the dopaminergic system by reducing the release of dopamine.

Studies have shown that benzodiazepines can actually downregulate dopamine production or reduce the number of dopamine receptors. This means that, rather than increasing dopamine levels, benzodiazepines can decrease dopamine activity in the brain. This is why benzodiazepines are not considered dopaminergic and do not produce the same euphoric effects as substances that directly increase dopamine levels, such as stimulants or opioids.

Additionally, benzodiazepines can interfere with the dopaminergic effects of other drugs. For example, when taken with stimulants like amphetamines, benzodiazepines can prevent the increase in dopamine levels typically caused by these substances.

In summary, benzodiazepines do not increase dopamine levels because their primary action is through the GABAergic system, which inhibits neuronal activity and can reduce dopamine production and receptor availability."

Stay Safe, Mana0909

 

[Mana0909]

@canadianpeduser

Could you tell me even more about things like BDL? Especially 1,4 Butanediol is a thing that interests me.
How would you compare it to other GABAergic substances?

I'm afraid to touch it because I was addicted to alcohol a couple of years ago, but 1,4 BDL sounds too promising, especially how long it acts.

Also @Mana0909 I greatly appreciate the detail and depth of experience and all communicating with you, thank you for sharing your experiences and the knowledge synthesized from those experieneces not just with me but for future readers of this thread on BL!

Sorry, I didn't see this before.

You are very welcome. I mean, you also shared such personal and heartwarming details about your life, and it makes me proud that you appreciate it (and also so many other BL users) that I always go so in-depth. I just want to ensure that no misinformation is being spread because this can sometimes be a matter of life and death. It's really important to be informed about such highly dangerous substances.

Wish you all a beautiful evening and also a journey in general

Stay safe, Mana0909

 

[Quasimoto]

But no Benzodiazepine is really dopaminergic.
Yes of course for you it can feel like that Alprazolam is the the one causing most euphoria, but that has to do with GABA and the Calcium Channels.

Benzodiazipines, mostly reduce dopamine. Only a very very tiny select few don't, but they are very very rare and also only cause mild dopaminergic feelings

Right... which is why I said secondary downstream effects on dopamine. But I'm not sure why we are being so argumentative in a thread that is about subjective and anecdotal opinions on GABAergic drugs.

 

[Mana0909]

Right... which is why I said secondary downstream effects on dopamine. But I'm not sure why we are being so argumentative in a thread that is entirely about subjective and anecdotal opinions on GABAergic drugs.

I actually don't know what you mean. Of course, arguments are not necessary when it's about subjective things, but saying that alprazolam (or benzodiazepines in general) + pregabalin are very dopaminergic is wrong. It can even reduce total dopamine levels.

I've said before, that opinions are different and how interesting it is and when Alprazolam is your fav Benzo, so be it:

But yeah, overall Mephenaqualone/Methaqualone (Quaaludes) are the best sedatives and GABAergics, and after that comes Phenibut in my opinion.
It's interesting to see how different opinions can be on things, especially when seeing that it's truly the complete opposite.

Yes, drugs act differently from person to person, but pleasure has nothing to do with dopamine. Benzodiazepines are mostly reducing total dopamine levels, especially when taken long-term.

Yes of course for you it can feel like that Alprazolam is the the one causing most euphoria, but that has to do with GABA and the Calcium Channels.

Opinions are different, but when someone posts something that isnt right, then its important to clear up this misinformation.
It's always important to learn from each other. I think thats why we are in this forum.

Stay Safe, Mana0909

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

I never claimed that... I said it is the most dopaminergic benzo I have personally tried, which is the topic of the title in this thread.

Actually I agree with this as well. I’ve taken many different benzos over the years and Xanax is different in that way for me as well @Quasimoto

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

Actually I agree with this as well. I’ve taken many different benzos over the years and Xanax is different in that way for me as well @Quasimoto

Also clonazepam is completely different for me as opposed to Xanax. Clonazepam helps me with muscle relaxation and obviously lasts much longer

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

I used to also love Fioricet because it had the barbiturate in it *butalbital in combination with the caffeine, so I could stay awake and do stuff on the barbiturate. I used to pop a bunch of Fioricet, drink coffees with it and smoke weed and that gave me pretty high euphoria.

 

[Mana0909]

Also clonazepam is completely different for me as opposed to Xanax. Clonazepam helps me with muscle relaxation and obviously lasts much longer

Clonazepam is a great benzo for me because, like you've said, it's very sedating, relaxing, and lifts my mood significantly. It doesn't make me emotionless (which, in my opinion, is a bad effect because euphoria is an emotion, and I love to feel).

It also often gives me a feeling of need, like wanting to cuddle with my fiancé. Maybe you can relate to that.

Stay Safe, Mana0909

 

[Quasimoto]

I actually don't know what you mean.

You created a thread asking for people's subjective opinions on drugs. I provided my subjective opinion, then you said I was very wrong (which I am not) in bold letters, and went on to comparing my opinions to your own subjective opinions by giving me a list of drugs you say are more euphoric, as if it was fact... which sort of defeats the purpose of having a thread about subjective opinions in the first place.

I apologize, I am on the spectrum and it really irks me when people misinterpret what I very plainly state.

Of course, arguments are not necessary when it's about subjective things, but saying that alprazolam (or benzodiazepines in general) + pregabalin are very dopaminergic is wrong. It can even reduce total dopamine levels.

I'm not sure if you are totally familiar with the various definitions or uses of the word dopaminergic. Regardless, they feel very dopaminergic to me relative to other GABAergics, which is my anecdotal experience, and I have quite a lot of experience with various drugs that have dopaminergic activity.

You are also very incorrect about them not being dopaminergic:

Regarding alprazolam: "Giving alprazolam, as compared to lorazepam, has been demonstrated to elicit a statistically significant increase in extracellular dopamine D1 and D2 concentrations in the striatum."

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam#:~:text=Giving alprazolam, as compared to,D2 concentrations in the striatum.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0924977X00001371?via%3Dihub

Dopamine receptors in the striatum of rats exposed to repeated restraint stress and alprazolam treatment

Stress-related behaviors are accompanied by modification of a large number of neurotransmitters in the brain. Moreover, the binding to GABAA receptors…

www.sciencedirect.com

Regarding pregabalin: "In vivo single unit extracellular recording showed that pregabalin had mixed effects on dopamine (DA) neuronal activity in the ventral tegmental area since it decreased the activity of 50% of neurons and increased 28.5% of them."

source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30879119/




...anyways, we should get back on topic. No hard vibes here friend.

 

[chippermonk]

I used to also love Fioricet because it had the barbiturate in it *butalbital in combination with the caffeine, so I could stay awake and do stuff on the barbiturate. I used to pop a bunch of Fioricet, drink coffees with it and smoke weed and that gave me pretty high euphoria.

I remember liking Fioricet with codeine quite a bit, but I haven't seen it in years

 

[paranoid android]

The only gaba drug i have taken and did not like was zaleplon which was marketed as starnoc here. I actually love the z drug zopiclone and am prescribed it but zaleplon gave me hallucinations that reminded me of dramamine. The carpet on the floor kept moving back and forth in waves and shit.

All in all i threw the rest of the script in the trash and went back to the doc and told him off about it. It was not fun at all

 

[Esperighanto]

You’re probably right I could have them mixed up but when I researched it; I had just assumed the thicker “more goopy but still what I’d call a liquid” stuff I presumed it was the fully synthesized solution. Maybe the thinner stuff was the additional potassium molecule it needed. Both got me pretty evenly buzzed. I was told that when you shake it really good the bubbles should stay for a while which is how I tested each batch in the beginning. Pretty naive way of calculating what I should put in my body I’ll admit lmfao.

I was also quite reckless with the shit I'd get up to both before and after G use hahaha, I often describe GHB and benzos as being like a venn diagram, where alcohol is kind of what's in the middle, GHB is the "shit your pants and steal a forklift" style of drunk, whereas benzos are more often than not the clean, smooth, just relaxed form of drunk and alcohol can be either depending on how it's used.

The issue with that gelatinous shit you got is that it means your dealer had absolutely no idea what the dose was. Hygroscopic substances (like GHB) absorb noticeable amounts of water from the atmosphere upon contact with the atmosphere. If you have pure GHB sodium under an inert atmosphere, you can use GHB as crystal, but somehow I suspect your plug wasn't operating a Schlenk line in the club to keep this under inert atmosphere though. As it goes from a solid crystal to that goop and eventually a pure liquid, you'll have no idea how much GHB relative to water you're getting unless if you know the original weight of crystal that went into that goop. That's why I said it's quite reckless of the chemist who made it to not dilute it to the standard (0.9g/mL iirc? I may be wrong on that but I'm pretty sure that's what most liquid G moves as) and then distribute that. The chemist could've also mixed it with binder in the lab and moved that, some DN vendors move little pellets of G that've been made within minutes of that batch's initial atmospheric exposure, minimizing the amount of "goop"-iness, if that makes sense.

The fact that G is not only so easy to overdose on, but also tends to be dosed by the bottle cap interval is why it's such a problem imo. More responsible dosing might've given this drug the nickname of Alcohol++ instead of "the date rape drug". Sorry for the long winded rant here, I just want people to understand that gelatinous or solid GHB is almost never reliable and it should strictly be moved as a liquid for the sake of safe volumetric dosing. Also, oral syringes that measure by the mL are dramatically safer than bottle caps for measurement. I've taken G from caps a million and one times, but the more I watched people OD on it, the more I started realizing this drug kills with reckless abandon. It seems to be highly bodyweight dependent too, I've never seen somebody under 210-220 lbs OD on it for some reason. AFAB people also seem more prone to ODing on it for some reason, idrk why. That spare potassium you're talking about isn't really a good way to think about it either, the whole cycle of GBL -> GHB is more intricate than just adding a single molecule, there's a side product due to dimerization (it's called 1,6-Dioxecane-2,7-dione), and often there are leftover initial reagents (typically GABA or THF). Idrc about excess GABA making it into the solution, but if it was made starting from tetrahydrofuran, I absolutely want zero mg of that paint thinner bullshit in my body.

The shaking it to see if bubbles stick around trick is honestly not terrible for telling if you should drop your plug or not lol. If somebody ever tells you to do this shit, future people reading this thread, get a more serious plug or just pick up organic chemistry yourself, I used to often buy GHB from high schoolers who made and sold it as a side hustle bc it's unironically kid shit to make. It's more dangerous the further back you go in the metabolic cycle too, 1,4-BDO -> GBL -> GHB as far as metabolism goes, and 1,4-BDO is lowkey like the Vyvanse of GHB analogs from what I've tried so far. I've seen it take up to two hours to fully sink in for people, and the possibilities of that to lead to people going "oh I got a weak batch, I better take more" and then asphyxiating on their own vomit while they're unconscious is frighteningly high.

Once again, sorry for the long winded rant on this, GHB and friends are just so easy to die from, and I really hope fewer do in the future by having access to knowledge like this.