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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Theory: Mexican Cartel and Dutch RC Lab Alliance and European Market

Methamphetanonymous said:
Beautiful beautiful European Union detailed report on Carttel's relationship with various nations criminal networks particularly the Dutch. Full breakdown of methamphetamine production in EU
Click to expand...
This was an interesting read. Looking at the section on DNM listings it looks like most of their data is from 2018-2020 where the claim that over 50% of European vendors were claiming their meth to be mexican in origin. I was browsing domestic (UK) meth vendors out of idle curiosity a couple of months ago and I remember seeing a few listings purporting to be from either Hong Kong or Prague. I don't know if that suggests that mexican meth is seen to have less allure than 5 years ago or if this is simply accounting for the other 50%.

I was also taken aback by how expensive it was. Closer in price to coke than MDMA (which is cheap as chips in Europe).

I'd take a look now but I don't have access to my PC atm.
 
They only decent meth I had was apparently sourced from Hong Kong. Most meth in the EU is frankly awful.
 
Shinji Ikari said:
This was an interesting read. Looking at the section on DNM listings it looks like most of their data is from 2018-2020 where the claim that over 50% of European vendors were claiming their meth to be mexican in origin. I was browsing domestic (UK) meth vendors out of idle curiosity a couple of months ago and I remember seeing a few listings purporting to be from either Hong Kong or Prague. I don't know if that suggests that mexican meth is seen to have less allure than 5 years ago or if this is simply accounting for the other 50%.

I was also taken aback by how expensive it was. Closer in price to coke than MDMA (which is cheap as chips in Europe).

I'd take a look now but I don't have access to my PC atm.
Click to expand...
China's meth production is a bit of a mystery to me. It's acknowledged in sources that they produce it from all precursors including ephedra plant matter, but typically aren't discussed as major manufacturing-export players in SE Asia. I'm assuming they simply have a bigger domestic methamphetamine problem than they report. Of course they're more known for global precursor export, but they do bust some pretty impressive meth labs there too

Wish it was easier to get information from North Korea. They've had a culture which is supposedly quite comfortable with meth consumption for a long time. Hard to believe anything I hear about North Korea as it's usually hyperbole or urban legend, but given that it is in fact a pretty bizarre nation anything sounds real

Prauge makes sense, meth's been relatively contained there since the cold war.

I still just can't get my head around how quickly the Taliban reclaimed Afghanistan, and the remaining Caliphate was able to execute such a seemless transition in infrastructure to start planting and harvesting ephedra. That article outlining the labor hours and plant matter weight that would go into 1kg of meth seems like a logistical nightmare. The bushes must be several yards apart, and ideal growing conditions are in ths foothills and mountains, not like harvesting corn. Yet in just two-three years they have cranked out pretty impressive purity crystal on a scale that is worthy of a small global player

Really plan on looking into the Balkan route next, it's a big blind spot in international relations for me in any context let alone drug trafficking. But they would be essential for a Europe-Asia supply chain.

Spend too much time reading about this stuff, I've learned I need to take some breaks and let the other hobbies breath lol


Edit: Some news has been going about today about drama between Canada-USA-Mexico co-operation. Not explicitly about combating meth and fentanyl but I wonder if it would be at all set back
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
I still just can't get my head around how quickly the Taliban reclaimed Afghanistan, and the remaining Caliphate was able to execute such a seemless transition in infrastructure to start planting and harvesting ephedra. That article outlining the labor hours and plant matter weight that would go into 1kg of meth seems like a logistical nightmare. The bushes must be several yards apart, and ideal growing conditions are in ths foothills and mountains, not like harvesting corn. Yet in just two-three years they have cranked out pretty impressive purity crystal on a scale that is worthy of a small global player
Click to expand...
I read something not too long back ( this summer) about how the Taliban was cracking down on people who gathered wild ephedra, that people were having to sneak out in the dead of night to do so. I also hadn't read anything about the Taliban relaxing their prohibition of opium growing ( though I read that there was a large stockpile by farmers of opium gum production from past years that was hidden and could be smuggled out for at least a few years to come)
I'm not saying you are wrong, only that I have heard to the contrary
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
It allows Afghanistan methamphetamine through to Europe, as well as Myanmar and Sri Lanka opium. The math isn't adding up really on who is filling the heroin vacuum in Europe, but I haven't looked to deeply into the route yet.
Click to expand...
Adriatic sea from Mediteranian and well three cities in Croatia were easily passed Rijeka, Zadar, Split so I don't know about Dubrovnik i said those cities as I met people and as I was partying and facebook and just told me a lot of them are probably inside....digg a little I'm sure there are sorces but try in those languages, I'm learning how to code as it was 17 years in High school., but will try to find if you are researching also, red a books...so

Be safe and just continue, I need to honestly read the whole thread first it looked like it is 5ish posts I answer and i see 2 pages ;-)
 
chippermonk said:
I read something not too long back ( this summer) about how the Taliban was cracking down on people who gathered wild ephedra, that people were having to sneak out in the dead of night to do so. I also hadn't read anything about the Taliban relaxing their prohibition of opium growing ( though I read that there was a large stockpile by farmers of opium gum production from past years that was hidden and could be smuggled out for at least a few years to come)
I'm not saying you are wrong, only that I have heard to the contrary
Click to expand...
Nah the Taliban are not relaxing any opium exporting, but they seem cagey about reporting meth precursor import siezures. I may have mispoke if I implied they're taking back their hardline Opium(Drugs in general) stance at least publically.

I believe I read that the stockpile could be drained as early as this winter in one of the EU reports, I'll check


Edit: You're right, UN suspects the stockpiled opium could be good for a few years
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
But this isn't something I'm suggesting, they ARE already operating meth labs, both their own and European labs with BMK resolved/recycled to dextromethamphetamine.

They also are already operating methamphetamine/fentynal polydrug superlabs in Western Canada. This is strategic not only the push supply into high demand West Coast USA market, but to push methamphetamine and very soon fentynal into Australia. Australia's outreach groups for meth like Cracks in the Ice highlight inaccurate estimations of meth users attributed to false self reporting due to stigmatization. They note that a majority of meth users develop a heroin addiction, and that the majority people with a polydrug addiction meth/heroin us IV as their RoA, and overwhelmingly resist treatment of either substance abuse when compared to just heroin addicts. They cite concerns over Afghanistan's heroin manufacturing supply collapsing opening them up to an influx of fentynal from the cartel, which their population is vulnerable to.

Throughout 2024, Australia literally reported that 90% of domestic meth has been exported from North American locations that the Mexican cartel diverts supply from

Australia's meth supply is controlled by the cartel. The reduction in street price per gram occured became the cartel cut out the Golden Triangle region this very year. The Mexican Cartel has already partnered with the countries I listed per law enforcement officials of those countries.

Everything you're saying doesn't make sense has already happened.

Clandestine labs yes

However you promoted me to do a little more researching, and a large part of the 3MMC influx is apparently from India, whereas 4MMC is domestic

My speculation is that 4MMC opens the door to either cutting with methamphetamine, or substitution with methamphetamine entirely as they both fit neatly into chemsex and rave groups. The vast majority of at least England's meth userbase are LGBT rave circles(presumably so in EU). The article describes the arrangement as the European criminal groups simply supply the labs, precursors, and staff and the cartel supplies the chemists to transition from amphetamine sulfate to dextromethamphetamine.

My anecdotal discussion with younger people in the LGBT community in the UK supports a noticeable scarcity of the amphetamine paste, and a not-quiet-mainstream but growing awareness and trying of meth especially in teens-early 20s. None of them really felt it was going to be different than amphetamine sulfate(usually very dilute with cuts or MDMA). Two smoked, three insuffilated. I found it alarming that the ones who insuffilated told me an all too familiar story of a significantly older man either lying initially about what then powder was, or encouraging them to take multiple rails with no serious tolerance with an implication of SA. Fuckin meth, I am worried what delicate tight rope the UK could walk to avoid dehumanizing and stigmatizing campaigns like the ones launched in the US 90s/00s while also quickly expressing that crystal meth won't by short duration like cathinones or mild like cut amphetamine and not really a social animal like MDMA. At least not at a certain point.

I don't feel from what I can tell that Europe is ready for methamphetamine. The UK market doesn't seem very high demand across the board for its population, but this is a different beast that Australia and the USA have yet to figure out and standardize a treatment plan for
Click to expand...
I can confirm that its in northern ireland now, and the person who got it and went fuckin nuts at my mate who was up to get green, when 'it went missing', taking a knife to his throat apparently and he basically was strip searched and even then the guy wouldn't stop apparently, then my mate said 'your sitting on it' and apparently there it was and so my mate had to literally run for his life immediately after before it happened again. Now, what was that guy getting first before this stuff also apparently just a few months ago
= 4MMC.
I can deffo see this happening, occurring already and in a short time, ruining our country even further if that was the reaction off the bat from a hardened, years n years of using, crackhead, then i don't wanna see wtf it will do to the rest of the stimulant user scene. thats some scary ass shit.
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
China's meth production is a bit of a mystery to me. It's acknowledged in sources that they produce it from all precursors including ephedra plant matter, but typically aren't discussed as major manufacturing-export players in SE Asia. I'm assuming they simply have a bigger domestic methamphetamine problem than they report. Of course they're more known for global precursor export, but they do bust some pretty impressive meth labs there too

Wish it was easier to get information from North Korea. They've had a culture which is supposedly quite comfortable with meth consumption for a long time. Hard to believe anything I hear about North Korea as it's usually hyperbole or urban legend, but given that it is in fact a pretty bizarre nation anything sounds real

Prauge makes sense, meth's been relatively contained there since the cold war.

I still just can't get my head around how quickly the Taliban reclaimed Afghanistan, and the remaining Caliphate was able to execute such a seemless transition in infrastructure to start planting and harvesting ephedra. That article outlining the labor hours and plant matter weight that would go into 1kg of meth seems like a logistical nightmare. The bushes must be several yards apart, and ideal growing conditions are in ths foothills and mountains, not like harvesting corn. Yet in just two-three years they have cranked out pretty impressive purity crystal on a scale that is worthy of a small global player

Really plan on looking into the Balkan route next, it's a big blind spot in international relations for me in any context let alone drug trafficking. But they would be essential for a Europe-Asia supply chain.

Spend too much time reading about this stuff, I've learned I need to take some breaks and let the other hobbies breath lol


Edit: Some news has been going about today about drama between Canada-USA-Mexico co-operation. Not explicitly about combating meth and fentanyl but I wonder if it would be at all set back
Click to expand...
Not exactly about meth in north korea but 55:18 minutes in - theres your north korean methamphetamine deals in black and white.
If you haven't heard of this guy's journey into north korea's insider circle as a mole and exposed an international arms deal. now...if weapons are being shipped and ran across the place - it'd be easy as pie for kilos n kilos, it would weigh less than the weapons, but i think you'll find it VERY interesting just how fuckin crazy that place is - 49:24 in, theres one point they go to a ghetto, into a basement, and then a big door opened to....well, you'll just have to watch n see ;) and if that can be there, a MASSIVE lab could be too. i mean look at their catalog for crazy 'weapons'/bombs/SKUD MISSILES....for them, clearly, the skies the limit (and also, at 1:28:41 there is talk...of 'this triangle' hmmmmm oil huh? that all?)
i'd actually advice people that aren't even interested in the meth aspect to watch this, as it starts slow but oh boy...does he take and show you some CRAZY places nobody has ever seen before beside 'those inside the circle' people - all done on a whim and joined a kinda 'Copenhagen friends of north korea' but didn't expect what he would. the balls on the mole and his friend are so big he can use them as space hoppers

 
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matt<3ketamine said:
Not exactly about meth in north korea but 55:18 minutes in - theres your north korean methamphetamine deals in black and white.
If you haven't heard of this guy's journey into north korea's insider circle as a mole and exposed an international arms deal. now...if weapons are being shipped and ran across the place - it'd be easy as pie for kilos n kilos, it would weigh less than the weapons, but i think you'll find it VERY interesting just how fuckin crazy that place is - 49:24 in, theres one point they go to a ghetto, into a basement, and then a big door opened to....well, you'll just have to watch n see ;) and if that can be there, a MASSIVE lab could be too. i mean look at their catalog for crazy 'weapons'/bombs/SKUD MISSILES....for them, clearly, the skies the limit (and also, at 1:28:41 there is talk...of 'this triangle' hmmmmm oil huh? that all?)
i'd actually advice people that aren't even interested in the meth aspect to watch this, as it starts slow but oh boy...does he take and show you some CRAZY places nobody has ever seen before beside 'those inside the circle' people - all done on a whim and joined a kinda 'Copenhagen friends of north korea' but didn't expect what he would. the balls on the mole and his friend are so big he can use them as space hoppers

Click to expand...

Great video man- lot if fresh information to look into now!


Side note; I don't wish to deep dive into the topic in a public thread but given that the information is publically shared by government sources on the clearnet (though seemingly hurriedly glossed over in the report) we're seeing a very "new"(to meth) single reaction reduction of pseudoephedrine with industrial scaling potential in Australia now based on Emde. You'll quickly see the potential trouble.

The Feds seem concerned that the Narcos are looking to try some twist on Sharpless' dehydroxylation to somehow induce asymmetry to the imput amine and ketone and yield d-methamphetamine from P2P without the finishing resolution and recycling runs.

Neither seem so Earth shattering as to make the worst case scenario any graver; but it's been a slow week
 
Can anyone help me get a real harm reduction project off the ground? It has good bones but I can't create this concept alone it can be better.



When I first began using illicit methamphetamine in 2023 I was shocked to find a community shattered in divide over even the most basic of facts surrounding the drug.



The Global catastrophe known as The War on Drugs has from inception inherently been a war against education; inherently being an act of violence against all of society not just the users and their loved ones. The mainstream entertainment media, (bearing only rarely a shade of responsible journalism anymore) at the encouragement of law enforcement organizations and political interests has staged a decades long propaganda operation that has skewed even semi-reputable or good intentioned informational hubs into falsehood and mythology.



In a landscape of powerful stimulants, novel research chemicals, and law enforcement groups, pharmaceutical monopolies, and under funded oversight groups all operating with extra judicial impunity, having the wrong information can kill. It can kill more than any molecule sold in a CVS or in a trap house, and is likely the masked murderer hiding behind thousands of accidental deaths or lives and families left worse than dead.



It is my life mission, and the mission of so many other wonderful people to arm and shield the public with the informational weaponry to fight the battles they may encounter from licit or illicit substances on honest and fair terms. Knowledge alone may not end all harm caused by humanities relationship with mind altering drugs. But it's a necessary step in that direction.



Our sidebar is empty as of October 2024. As curious minds post questions about these drugs, and moonlighting researchers answer them with sources they gather the sidebar will grow.



Individuals interested in writing research paper length guides or even simple paragraphs on any topic that informs on amphetamines and their use are desperately needed, and will breath even greater life into the database.



As our subreddit grows, so will our consolidated bank vault of knowledge. Help us get there, it's the work of a community.



Thank you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It looks like your subreddit has been banned. Just a mistake perhaps, I did have a quick look this morning when it was still up and it didn't appear to breaking any rules. Anyway...

There's no shortage of harm reduction information available online. I don't think the issue is that information on methamphetamine and safe use isn't available, more likely is that the users you've encountered just don't care. Reddit does have quite a young userbase and harm reduction often isn't at the top of everyone's agenda. It's just the nature of that site. There's plenty of great trustworthy info out there though without having to look too far.

You've got erowid which is a great hub to start with because it can link you to trip reports, harm reduction info, news and media etc. For technical information on dosing and effects you've got the psychonaut wiki which is all referenced. If you're looking for academic articles a search on pubmed brings up 1700 results for methamphetamine, and then of course there's here on bluelight where users have been exchanging information and experiences back and forth for 25 years at this point.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your project!
 
ĐmantuNJofra said:
Adriatic sea from Mediteranian and well three cities in Croatia were easily passed Rijeka, Zadar, Split so I don't know about Dubrovnik i said those cities as I met people and as I was partying and facebook and just told me a lot of them are probably inside....digg a little I'm sure there are sorces but try in those languages, I'm learning how to code as it was 17 years in High school., but will try to find if you are researching also, red a books...so

Be safe and just continue, I need to honestly read the whole thread first it looked like it is 5ish posts I answer and i see 2 pages ;-)
Click to expand...
I read an article in a local paper online about one junkie that described how people around Split and Dalmatia get in touch with Meth that first came with Czech tourists that were coming on the coast. They were bringing their Meth along to try to sell and compensate with host or local ppl. and as Dalmatians are a bit crazier than usual rest of the Croats, especially knowing that Heroin was a thing in the past on the south, especially in winter times they started experimenting with meth... And I remember one comment that junkie said in an interview that when he got hooked on that shit and when he was full on like he was seeing the devil.....

Btw a couple of days ago in a talk with a Polish colleague about shit and stuff, along that when we touched on the topic of drugs and his question do I know what is Polish vitamin ( Amphetamine was the answer ) something about a big bust in their countryside somewhere around near the Belarus border...huge lab that was operated by 4 Mexican nationals...

tvpworld.com

Police bust Mexican ‘cartel’ meth lab in Poland

Four individuals were caught in the act.
tvpworld.com tvpworld.com
 
Couple more State-side conversion labs busted; indicating the cartel smuggling either liquid freebase meth concealed in organic solvent across border, or hydrochloride meth dissolved in water to be processed into dry shards once across.


www.vice.com

Houston DEA Found 80 Gallons of Liquid Meth in a Suburban Cartel Meth Lab

DEA uncovers massive cartel meth lab in Houston duplex, seizing 80 gallons of liquid meth worth $2M in major drug trafficking bust with ties to Mexican cartels
www.vice.com www.vice.com

www.google.com

Large meth lab, 'cartel' operation found in Marietta during traffic stop

A routine traffic stop by the Georgia State Patrol on Oct. 1 led to the discovery of a large methamphetamine conversion lab in a residential neighborhood in Cobb County.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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