Meth lisdexamfetamine reduction regime for acute methamphetamine withdrawal

[Dextro .45]

The biggest difference between meth and dextroamphetamine is the lack of SERT agonism and the presence of increased norepinephrine. Meth is less stimulating in therapeutic dose ranges, but the serotonin release from higher dose use (I believe over 25 or 30mg) blends with the dopaminergic effects to create a unique euphoria which is less self-limiting. The norepinephrine released by dextro/levo-amphetamine (and vyvanse which becomes dextroamphetamine) increases stuff like muscle tension and likely leading to that wired/jittery feeling.

That said, continuing with the vyvanse while also being on the desvenla will probably be broadly enough to land the plane, but it will not feel as smooth as meth.

If you can trust yourself with a small amount of oral methamphetamine concurrent with your vyvanse, it could be helpful, but I would only do this if you have a solid plan and failsafe to prevent lapsing back into ongoing use.

If you can also utilize N-Acetyl Cystine, that may help with compulsivity and urge to continue to use stimulants.

What's your ultimate goal here? Will you continue to be able to access the vyvanse for a period of time and taper down?

Well put....

Unfortunately for the poster....they don't reside in Canada

There is a vendor who has damn near pharmaceutical grade 4-MMC (Mephedrone)

4-Methyl-Meth Cathinone HCL
500% increase in Dopamine
900% increase in Serotonin

Very subtle in low therapeutic doses, with robust mood-boosting properties. Euphoric & pleasurable.

Only ships within Cananda ....no customs to clear, shipped right to your front door XpressPost.

Perhaps not the best route considering your Methamphetamine dependence & withdrawal....but paired with your Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) 3h onset / 10h duration the 4-MMC would give you the required SERT/DAT to taper off gradually

Minimizing mental depression & cognitive impaired and other unpleasant symptoms

But perhaps just Vyvanse is best? Your CNS will gradually go back to "normal"

I was on Vyvanse for a while....decent I guess. I strongly prefer the rapid acting Ritalin (Methylphenidate) 3-4h duration

Perhaps Vyvanse + Lyrica (Pregabalin) 300mg would be more comfortable as your taper

Good luck with the taper

 

[Twisted_Chemist]

The biggest difference between meth and dextroamphetamine is the lack of SERT agonism and the presence of increased norepinephrine. Meth is less stimulating in therapeutic dose ranges, but the serotonin release from higher dose use (I believe over 25 or 30mg) blends with the dopaminergic effects to create a unique euphoria which is less self-limiting. The norepinephrine released by dextro/levo-amphetamine (and vyvanse which becomes dextroamphetamine) increases stuff like muscle tension and likely leading to that wired/jittery feeling.

That said, continuing with the vyvanse while also being on the desvenla will probably be broadly enough to land the plane, but it will not feel as smooth as meth.

If you can trust yourself with a small amount of oral methamphetamine concurrent with your vyvanse, it could be helpful, but I would only do this if you have a solid plan and failsafe to prevent lapsing back into ongoing use.

If you can also utilize N-Acetyl Cystine, that may help with compulsivity and urge to continue to use stimulants.

What's your ultimate goal here? Will you continue to be able to access the vyvanse for a period of time and taper down?

The SERT activity in both D-methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine is about the same, with D-methamphetamine being barley more potent then dextroamphetamine, not really enough to make a huge difference.

The addition of the extra methyl group makes the methamphetamine more nonpolar. This allows it to quickly cross the nonpolar barrier between our blood vessels and brain, causing it to have more pronounced effects on your body. Also Methamphetamine's stronger action on VMAT2 (vesicular monoamine transporter 2) results in higher dopamine release, which contributes to its stronger euphoric effects.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

@bablyonee Hi! A product I always recommend to opioid and stimulant user's is black seed oil, it not only helps withdrawal from both but also lowers tolerance too.
So it'd help your amphetamine use in the future.
I use it all the time for my opioid use.

@tryptakid You mentioned N-Actyle-Cysteine and said it helps with compulsivity when it comes to use.
I'm guessing it helps this way too with opioids?
Is there much research backing this up?
All I know is that it's given for acetaminophen/paracetamol overdoses cause it's a precursor to glutathione, a powerful antioxidant that works a lot (Primarily?) in the liver and Milk Thistle causes the liver to research it.

 

[tryptakid]

@bablyonee Hi! A product I always recommend to opioid and stimulant user's is black seed oil, it not only helps withdrawal from both but also lowers tolerance too.
So it'd help your amphetamine use in the future.
I use it all the time for my opioid use.

@tryptakid You mentioned N-Actyle-Cysteine and said it helps with compulsivity when it comes to use.
I'm guessing it helps this way too with opioids?
Is there much research backing this up?
All I know is that it's given for acetaminophen/paracetamol overdoses cause it's a precursor to glutathione, a powerful antioxidant that works a lot (Primarily?) in the liver and Milk Thistle causes the liver to research it.

Most of what I know if it's use is anecdotal reports however there has been some research demonstrating a reduction in drug craving behavior when using NAC - here's a paper discussing N-acetylcysteine in the treatment of craving in substance use disorders: Systematic review and meta-analysis

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

Most of what I know if it's use is anecdotal reports however there has been some research demonstrating a reduction in drug craving behavior when using NAC - here's a paper discussing N-acetylcysteine in the treatment of craving in substance use disorders: Systematic review and meta-analysis

That's not just a paper discussing it, that's a meta study!
They can be very good for finding evidence as they study multiple studies.
Thank you!
I'll be purchasing some NAC in the future.

 

[tryptakid]

That's not just a paper discussing it, that's a meta study!
They can be very good for finding evidence as they study multiple studies.
Thank you!
I'll be purchasing some NAC in the future.

I do my best to provide useful citations!

 

[tryptakid]

That's not just a paper discussing it, that's a meta study!
They can be very good for finding evidence as they study multiple studies.
Thank you!
I'll be purchasing some NAC in the future.

Also, here's a link that avoids the paywall so you can read the whole article

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

Also, here's a link that avoids the paywall so you can read the whole article

It doesn't work, it's need some kind of plug in for the browser I assume.

 

[tryptakid]

It doesn't work, it's need some kind of plug in for the browser I assume.

Ah, yeah, it's a plugin that uses sci-hub (which should should be able to pull up via websearch) - just search for the title/article info there and it should bring you to a non-paywalled article.

 

[KangRex]

Right. Well, I didn't post updates on my METH DETOX (using the lisdexamfetamine reduction method), however here I am 8 or so days in reporting that IT WORKED!

I started on 6 x 40mg Vyvanse capsules, then each day I reduced by 1 cap.

Day 1 on 6 caps had my facial skin all oily from the stimulation BUT NO stimulant detox symptoms.

As stated, I utilised a range of sleep helpers such as Olanzapine, Quitiapine and/or Doxylamine. In fact I smashed it with these at times because

THE NAME OF THE GAME was normal sleep patterns. Do everything I can to restore normal sleep patterns.

And here I am feeling good. Reducing the sleep assistance. Running daily (I introduced short walk/runs when I got down to about 80mg Vyvanse per day)

It must be about 3 days since my last dose, and Ive come back to say:

1. I'm shit at daily journalling, and

2. This process works. It's bullshit when academics/doctors etc tell you there's not really any medication for getting off methamphetamine. I just did it and I did it following the attached 8 client- successful study (which is attached to this thread), and I did it whilst turning up for work each day.

Ive an initial appointment with my local public addiction service in a couple of weeks. I'm still going to turn up to this appointment because I want to tell them this:

No I don't need to go on Mirtazapine (That shit makes people fatigued, and fatigue usually makes meth users want to use meth).

No I don't need naltrexone because it's made little impact on my desire to use meth in the past.

And No I don't need any help because rather than wait for the world of public alcohol and other drug services to get their shit together, I was fortunate enough to be able to gather the obvious drugs that would work (or dex or lisdex), myself and demonstrate what this study has already proven:

*Vyvanse reduction got me off meth.

*Vyvanse reduction assisted my MH.

*Vyvanse reduction got me that critically needed sleep hygiene.

*Vyvanse reduction saved my career.

Inbox me for any further support/info. Unfortunately I cannot access medication for you but you could use this study to show your doctor (I mean not my posts, but the Australian study that I've attached at the start). This is the study that I based my little project upon.

It's frustrating waiting for actual public services to catch up with such things as these. My support to you is try to access meds and do it yourself. Even if you could use meth itself in appropriately divided reduction dosed ratios in itself.

You do not need 2 weeks off work for a bed ridden meth detox.

Go well.

Right. Well, I didn't post updates on my METH DETOX (using the lisdexamfetamine reduction method), however here I am 8 or so days in reporting that IT WORKED!

I started on 6 x 40mg Vyvanse capsules, then each day I reduced by 1 cap.

Day 1 on 6 caps had my facial skin all oily from the stimulation BUT NO stimulant detox symptoms.

As stated, I utilised a range of sleep helpers such as Olanzapine, Quitiapine and/or Doxylamine. In fact I smashed it with these at times because

THE NAME OF THE GAME was normal sleep patterns. Do everything I can to restore normal sleep patterns.

And here I am feeling good. Reducing the sleep assistance. Running daily (I introduced short walk/runs when I got down to about 80mg Vyvanse per day)

It must be about 3 days since my last dose, and Ive come back to say:

1. I'm shit at daily journalling, and

2. This process works. It's bullshit when academics/doctors etc tell you there's not really any medication for getting off methamphetamine. I just did it and I did it following the attached 8 client- successful study (which is attached to this thread), and I did it whilst turning up for work each day.

Ive an initial appointment with my local public addiction service in a couple of weeks. I'm still going to turn up to this appointment because I want to tell them this:

No I don't need to go on Mirtazapine (That shit makes people fatigued, and fatigue usually makes meth users want to use meth).

No I don't need naltrexone because it's made little impact on my desire to use meth in the past.

And No I don't need any help because rather than wait for the world of public alcohol and other drug services to get their shit together, I was fortunate enough to be able to gather the obvious drugs that would work (or dex or lisdex), myself and demonstrate what this study has already proven:

*Vyvanse reduction got me off meth.

*Vyvanse reduction assisted my MH.

*Vyvanse reduction got me that critically needed sleep hygiene.

*Vyvanse reduction saved my career.

Inbox me for any further support/info. Unfortunately I cannot access medication for you but you could use this study to show your doctor (I mean not my posts, but the Australian study that I've attached at the start). This is the study that I based my little project upon.

It's frustrating waiting for actual public services to catch up with such things as these. My support to you is try to access meds and do it yourself. Even if you could use meth itself in appropriately divided reduction dosed ratios in itself.

You do not need 2 weeks off work for a bed ridden meth detox.

Go well.

Hey, I just wanted to thank you for sharing this experiment and its apparent success. I've been really perseverating about getting off methamphetamine without having to disappear for a week (I literally cannot possibly afford to do that). I have an adderall prescription that I can have filled in about two weeks, so I'll be attempting the same thing you did and your success just gave me a massive morale boost. Really appreciate it.

 

[bablyonee]

Hey, I just wanted to thank you for sharing this experiment and its apparent success. I've been really perseverating about getting off methamphetamine without having to disappear for a week (I literally cannot possibly afford to do that). I have an adderall prescription that I can have filled in about two weeks, so I'll be attempting the same thing you did and your success just gave me a massive morale boost. Really appreciate it.

So happy to hear. So long as the Adderall dose is similar in conversion to day 1 Dex dose, how could this not work, right? I mean, I didn't even have that loooow mood. It was a gentle land. Best regards with it

 

[tryptakid]

The SERT activity in both D-methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine is about the same, with D-methamphetamine being barley more potent then dextroamphetamine, not really enough to make a huge difference.

The addition of the extra methyl group makes the methamphetamine more nonpolar. This allows it to quickly cross the nonpolar barrier between our blood vessels and brain, causing it to have more pronounced effects on your body. Also Methamphetamine's stronger action on VMAT2 (vesicular monoamine transporter 2) results in higher dopamine release, which contributes to its stronger euphoric effects.

Noticed this comment a year later - apologies.

So I looked into what you are saying - which contrasts with how I've often heard meth vs. d-amp described and it seems like you are correct in that there's similar activation of 5-HT between the two (As shown in this table from wikipedia):

Compound	5-HT	NE	DA	Ref
Phenethylamine	10.9	39.5	>10,000	[174][175][176]
Dextroamphetamine	6.6–7.2	5.8–24.8	698–1,765	[177][178]
Levoamphetamine	9.5	27.7	ND	[175][176]
Dextromethamphetamine	12.3–13.8	8.5–24.5	736–1,292	[177][179]
Levomethamphetamine	28.5	416	4,640	[177]

Monoamine release of amphetamine and related agents (EC50Tooltip Half maximal effective concentration, nM)

Notes: The smaller the value, the more strongly the drug releases the neurotransmitter. See also Monoamine releasing agent § Activity profiles for a larger table with more compounds. Refs: [180][181]

​

Dexamp has a slightly smaller lowend activation (698) than meth (736) and a slightly higher upper end (1,765) than meth (1,292). My understanding is also the meth begins to exert increasing 5-HT effect at higher than therapeutic dosing (over 30mg). One of the limiting factors in high-dose dexamp use is the NE release which makes large doses increasingly unpleasant. Given that Meth is less of a potent activator of NE than dexamp, while activating DA at around the same level of potency we can presume that Meth increases dopamine and serotonin at around the same rate, while dexamp is 2x as potent at increasing norepinephrine compared to meth. My understanding is that this is what allows meth use to be much higher in dose, allowing for that high dose serotonergic activity to be more enjoyable than an equipotent high dose of dexamp.