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Kratom 7-OH-Mitragynine and Mitragynine Pseudoindoxyl

Didgital

Didgital

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
1,168
Location
Colorado, USA
So recently, both of these compounds have become available in the US. At least the 7OH is very easy to synthesize assuming you have pure mitragynine. I won't go into details about it, but I've done it.

The Psuedoindoxyl which is supposedly several times more potent than the 7-OH i am a little skeptical about because there is no actual standard that exists for it. Still, I got a few pressed pills labeled R, G, and W. One is 7-OH, one is supposedly the pseudoindoxyl and one is supposedly a mix. They are all strong as fuck.

So, what I can say about at least the 7-OH is it is extremely strong, and its quite a bit longer lasting then mitragynine. The effects are quite similar to MIT which is actually quite different than eating the plant. I took 19mg of 53% 7-OH and that was way overkill. I'm not sure how dangerous these are but I imagine they can be abused.

I actually expect it to become illegal in the next few years.

Anyway, discuss and share your experiences here!
 
Yea I’ve taken some 7-OH tablets, they were strong for sure. I ordered them from 2 different vendors … the tabs from one were pretty strong & definitely helped my pain issues. The tabs from the other vendor had me staying up all night, I felt kind of speedy
 
I personally feel like the W's (supposedly 7-hydroxymitragynine) are quite abit stronger than the R's (mitragynine pseudoindoxyl).

Both feel very different than any normal kratom extract (like OPMS). They feel far more drug like, are able to pin my pupils to a far greater degree than extracts, and don't produce that horrible dizziness that happens when consuming large amounts of extracts (I drank 3 OPMS black shots at one time and felt like I wanted to die, the dizziness was unbearable, I just sat in a chair immobile, waiting for it to wear off. Thus the high was limited by the side effects.

These other products, particularly these supposed isolates of one potent, minorly occuring alkaloid (if occuring at all in some cases) don't cause the same kind of intense dizziness when you bump it up, so you can actually get increasingly high on these. The most I've taken of the W pills at once is 4, which while definitely making me feel very woozy and nauseated, it felt like the woozy feeling from high doses of traditional opioids, like a high dose of hydrocodone. Much different from the poisoned feeling that makes normal kratom extracts hard to abuse.
 
I thought 7-OH was strong for kratom alkaloids.... that stuff is crazy in comparison, whole different level

I love/hate it, but mostly wish it would go away because it shouldn't exist on the clear net
 
someguyontheinternet said:
How would you compare the high of any of those to something like hydrocodone?
Click to expand...

I would say there's some parallels to hydrocodone. But not as euphoric, more stimulating. In absolute terms I'd say hydrocodone is definitely stronger at high enough doses. On a mg to mg basis though, I'd say 7-hydroxymitragynine is stronger.

Also, I now partially take back this statement:
negrogesic said:
I personally feel like the W's (supposedly 7-hydroxymitragynine) are quite abit stronger than the R's (mitragynine pseudoindoxyl).
Click to expand...

I took 2.5 tablets of the R tablets (mitragynine pseudoindoxyl) about 2 hour ago, and despite having taken 40mg of dextroamphetamine, I'm I'm a having a hard time keeping my eyes open. In fact I'm writing this post with one eye closed, and feel like I could take a nap. Definitely feels more sedating than the 7-hydroxymitragynine mitragynine tablets. Still, I prefer the effect of 7-hydroxymitragynine tablets over these R (mit pseudoindoxyl) tablets, are more enjoyable imo.

I do like how these don't possess the same sickening vertigo that would inevitably occur to reach this level with plain leaf or normal extracts. For instance, if I took enough OPMS black or gold extract, or a full spectrum extract to reach the levek of narcosis im feeling from these pseudoindoxyl tablets, I would be unbearably nauseated right now. But I was actually able to eat breakfast right now. Of course, if I were currently in the backseat of a car on a winding road, i wouldn't feel so great probably. But taking enough normal extracts (or god forbid, plain leaf) to reach this effect feels like being in the backseat of a car on a winding road while sitting stationary in a chair.
 
Didgital said:
So recently, both of these compounds have become available in the US. At least the 7OH is very easy to synthesize assuming you have pure mitragynine. I won't go into details about it, but I've done it.

The Psuedoindoxyl which is supposedly several times more potent than the 7-OH i am a little skeptical about because there is no actual standard that exists for it. Still, I got a few pressed pills labeled R, G, and W. One is 7-OH, one is supposedly the pseudoindoxyl and one is supposedly a mix. They are all strong as fuck.

So, what I can say about at least the 7-OH is it is extremely strong, and its quite a bit longer lasting then mitragynine. The effects are quite similar to MIT which is actually quite different than eating the plant. I took 19mg of 53% 7-OH and that was way overkill. I'm not sure how dangerous these are but I imagine they can be abused.

I actually expect it to become illegal in the next few years.

Anyway, discuss and share your experiences here!
Click to expand...
I've been so grateful for this Bluelight website and I have "lurked" here for years, mainly doing opioid research and reading, usually because I'm running low or am going to or have run out and my refills are too many hours or day(s) away, and anyone who knows what that's like knows how important it is to find some kind of relief, help, encouragement.
Let me start with the main reason why I registered today and I'm posting this as my FIRST post:
Mitragynine Pseudoindoxyl, in my case "Hydroxie" 15 MG x 5 pak IS THE ONLY OTC option that has ever "really" worked, and it works VERY well!
On more than one occasion I tried the "strongest" Kratom capsules and I still had bad cold sweats, other withdrawals, and the thing behind it all-horrible pain that wasn't relieved much. I didn't like the jittery side effects either, but I figured if Kratom helped at all, that little bit was better than NOTHING.
I had my first trip ever to Hawaii for 2 weeks scheduled by someone else, and unfortunately those 2 weeks were in the 2nd half of my 30 day Rx, the half that I don't always "do as well as I should" in. My current Rx dose is 15mg oxy IR every 4 hours around the clock = 6x15mg/day, and 1 MS ER 100mg 2x/day. On the day I had to leave for Hawaii I did the math and I only had about 1x MS ER 100mg available per day and enough oxy to supplement my daily Rx intake for about 3 or 4 days tops. At the end of my 2nd week, Friday morning at 7am I took my last half of the MS ER 100mg, and I knew by the afternoon I'd be in deep shit, withdrawals starting and pain building. That afternoon and evening was one of our biggest events planned, very physical. 2 tank SCUBA diving trip, the first from about 4:30pm to 5:30pm, then a surface interval of 1½ hours, and the GRAND FINALE of a 1 hour night dive to watch the amazing Manta Rays feeding on plankton our lights would bring in. Then Saturday afternoon all the way through Sunday morning it was packing up and leaving, and about 12 straight hours of airports and jets, luggage handling, and a brutal 8 hour leg from Hawaii to CONUS.
It was an answered prayer to have "just happened" that I drove to the "head shop" that was a mile away from the place I was staying instead of walking 4 minutes to the one right by me. The reason? (other than Divine Intervention) The shop a mile away opened at 8am, and the closer one at 9am, and I felt like the 60 minutes earlier was going to be too critical to wait. Fortunately the shop I went to knew exactly what to offer and had it, the Hydroxie 15mg. I told the guy exactly what my dire situation was, my regular Rx doses, and he went straight to the Hydroxie recommendation. I trusted him 100%, bought 2x 5 paks of the 15mg, and took 2 tabs immediately (4 "servings") 30 minutes later I physically felt fine, my dread and stress were less because the Hydroxie seemed to be working. No withdrawals. That only got better over the next 6 hours. At 3pm ish I decided to take the 2nd two, and they carried me through all that physical activity through 11pm.
2 more to go to sleep, and I slept all night until 7am Saturday morning!
2 more and made my way into the day, and so on, 2 tabs about every 6 hours, so 15 tabs carried me from 8am Friday through 10am Sunday, with all those physical stress and pain inducing situations and I had ZERO withdrawal symptoms and my pain levels were well managed overall.
Hydroxie is the ONLY OTC I will lean on in the "emergencies" that come up, and again, I see this product as a miracle and an answered prayer.
 
I have an update:
I have found a few more OTC "concentrated" Kratom alkaloid tabs that have covered the gap for the few days before a Rx refill.
NO withdrawal symptoms, pain managed.
7OHMZ and MOJO OHMS
I believe they have a formula that is similar to the blue labeled Hydroxie product.
Unfortunately the red labeled pseudoindoxyl Hydroxie isn't available locally, but the good news is I've found these other highly effective options.
A real blessing when the alternative is disabling withdrawals and excruciating pain. The ones I just posted about were effective at 1 tab each dosing (as I believe the Hydroxie pseudoindoxyl red label may be) but only lasted about 3-4 hours before the internal screaming demanded I take another.
 
What would a person with a low tolerance take of each of these compounds? Say, to equal 10mg hydro for a start.
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
What would a person with a low tolerance take of each of these compounds? Say, to equal 10mg hydro for a start.
Click to expand...
Most vendors sell the tablets at 15 or 20 mg and there’s a line in the half of the tablet. Most people start off with a half a tablet to feel it out and then take it from there. If you are using them for pain, they definitely work. Some vendors are better than others, and some people like certain vendors better than others. I’ve had ones that made me feel a little more stimulated and euphoria and others that make me feel a little more sedated … but they all still have that 7oh feel as far as working for pain (and definitely feel like you took a pain pill in my experience). I take them in between when I’m rotating tramadol for all my pain shit. And like I said that’s all the 7oh (7-hydroxymitragynine). The other stuff that some of us were talking about in this thread is pseudo -(Mitragynine) Pseudoindoxyl. These help for pain as well but are much more sedating and helpful for muscle relaxation (but you’re not going to feel the same euphoria as the 7oh). A lot of people, including myself, will take half of each. Half 7oh & half pseudo really helps for pain and feels pretty good. They actually just recently started making half and half tabs of both of them. I don’t order the half & half tabs because I like to keep them separate so I can have a choice (pseudo’s better for sleep) and also because in my experience you have to be careful not to take the pseudo too much as it will jack up your tolerance to everything (7oh, pseudo, even other opioids and pain pills).

Hope any of that was helpful and I didn’t ramble too much or overload you with a bunch of info lol.
 
AngelsandFairiesarereal said:
Most vendors sell the tablets at 15 or 20 mg and there’s a line in the half of the tablet. Most people start off with a half a tablet to feel it out and then take it from there. If you are using them for pain, they definitely work. Some vendors are better than others, and some people like certain vendors better than others. I’ve had ones that made me feel a little more stimulated and euphoria and others that make me feel a little more sedated … but they all still have that 7oh feel as far as working for pain (and definitely feel like you took a pain pill in my experience). I take them in between when I’m rotating tramadol for all my pain shit. And like I said that’s all the 7oh (7-hydroxymitragynine). The other stuff that some of us were talking about in this thread is pseudo -(Mitragynine) Pseudoindoxyl. These help for pain as well but are much more sedating and helpful for muscle relaxation (but you’re not going to feel the same euphoria as the 7oh). A lot of people, including myself, will take half of each. Half 7oh & half pseudo really helps for pain and feels pretty good. They actually just recently started making half and half tabs of both of them. I don’t order the half & half tabs because I like to keep them separate so I can have a choice (pseudo’s better for sleep) and also because in my experience you have to be careful not to take the pseudo too much as it will jack up your tolerance to everything (7oh, pseudo, even other opioids and pain pills).

Hope any of that was helpful and I didn’t ramble too much or overload you with a bunch of info lol.
Click to expand...
Not at all. I'd better start with 1/2 and take it from there. Don't want a replay of the first time I tried Tianeptine. :rolleyes:
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
Not at all. I'd better start with 1/2 and take it from there. Don't want a replay of the first time I tried Tianeptine. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
lol fuck Tianeptine hehe just kiddin’ kinda 😄
But, yea I hope it works for you and you enjoy them. They’re way cleaner than tianeptine (but of course with anything, you have to be careful about tolerance and withdrawal and all that fun stuff lol)
 
Yeah, Tianeptine sucks.
So, I took 1/2 of the 7-OH a couple hours ago, and it is quite pleasant. It feels like 5-7mg Hydrocodone maybe a little more euphoric. Now I'm wondering if it will have better legs than Hydro. Hydro only lasts a couple hours or so for me.

It would be nice to do this amount and add the wash from a few tablespoons of poppy seeds for the extended effect.
Does anyone know if the 7-OH is a full agonist or a partial antagonist? How does it mix with other opiates? Any counteracting of effect?

@AngelsandFairiesarereal , I am very careful with opioids. You can tell my tolerance is low, and I want to keep it that way. I definitely don't want to ruin Kratom, that's my lawn mowing drug.
 
AngelsandFairiesarereal said:
lol fuck Tianeptine hehe just kiddin’ kinda 😄
But, yea I hope it works for you and you enjoy them. They’re way cleaner than tianeptine (but of course with anything, you have to be careful about tolerance and withdrawal and all that fun stuff lol)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, 7-hydroxymitragynine is far more expensive than tianeptine. At least, when tianeptine is bought in powder form.

Also, the tachyphylaxis (a fancy but efficient word that means that tolerance rises rapidly) that occurs with 7-hydroxymitragynine is among the most extreme I've seen with opioids. For instance I recently bought some supposedly 93% pure 7-hydroxymitragynine powder (I doubt it was that pure but it definitely was strong). I'm pretty well versed with the 15-18mg 7-hydroxymitragynine tablets, which I can take 3 at a time no problem. So I scooped 60mg of the 93% 7-hydroxymitragynine powder and was surprised how fucked up, sort of nodding off, trying to read my phone with one eye open trying not nod. By the following say, I was scooping 150-200mg of the very same powder multiple times a day, to lesser effect than that initial 60mg.

In anycase, as far as tachyphylaxis goes, this stuff is up there. And with it, comes a hefty price tag. With tianeptine sodium, a single 800mg dose would consistently get me cross eyed on a daily basis, though of course tolerance occurs. But not at the rate I've seen with 7-hydroxymitragynine. Which is odd, since one would think a G protein-biased opioid like 7-hydroxymitragynine would slower to produce tolerance. Although maybe this virtual allows one to seek reward at a greater rate due to lack of consequences associated with a beta-arrestin biased agonist (like tianeptine or any traditional MOR agonist).

Closest compound with the degree of tachyphylaxis I've seen with 7-hydroxymitragynine was 2-methyl-AP-237, but still not to the same degree.

At least that's the case for me. Note, I used to be on 380mg/day of methadone over a decade ago, so my opioid receptors are quite subject to tachyphylaxis
 
OK. The next day now. Did some cursory research.

"7-Hydroxymitragynine, like mitragynine, appears to be a mixed opioid receptor agonist/antagonist, acting as a partial agonist at μ-opioid receptors and as a competitive antagonist at δ- and κ-opioid receptors.[6][7]
********
7-Hydroxymitragynine can convert into mitragynine up to 45% in human liver microsomes over a 2 hour incubation and was degraded up to 27% in simulated gastric fluid and degraded up to 6% in simulated intestinal fluid.[8] 7-Hydroxymitragynine can metabolize to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl in the blood but not in the liver.[9][10] Interestingly, this even more potent opioid was revealed to exist in a mixture of stereoisomers in biological systems.["

en.wikipedia.org

7-Hydroxymitragynine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

So, it is a mixed agonist/antagonist and a partial agonist. Answers that question. Has anybody mixed it with other opioids to see if effects are additive or if it interferes?

I found the conversion in the body to Pseudoindoxl particularly interesting. As said, 1/2 a pill felt like maybe 7mg Hydrocodone at first, but a couple/few hours in the effect seemed to get more sleepy and stronger. My lady who was taking the same amount said she didn't feel much at first, but chirped up right about when I was feeling it to be a stronger and said, "It's making me sleepy now." A whole pill would have been easily doable, but probably kinda strong. I went to bed too early to see if it had really good legs, but the partially delayed effect already says it's better than hydro in that regard.

So, I'm a gonna have to not do this any more than once a week for sure. I have been setting that limit on Kratom for a few years now and that's working very well. Seems this could really mess that system up.

Anyway, that's the input from a low tolerance individual.
 
Whether it plays nice or not will usually depend on if it has the same binding site as other opioids or not and if it does, what has the higher affinity? That's how buprenorphine works, it has a really high affinity so it kicks out other opioids and binds preferentially
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
Has anybody mixed it with other opioids to see if effects are additive or if it interferes?
Click to expand...
So for me, I rotate 7oh & pseudo with tramadol and sometimes hydromorphone.

I’ve noticed that if I take 7oh every day for a couple weeks and then go back to tramadol it actually effects my tramadol tolerance. I literally have to have a certain amount of days away from 7oh and on the tramadol to feel the tram more … same with hydro. Others have mentioned this before as well. So for me personally I never mix them because I’m afraid they’d cancel each other out or something. But yea, I mean this is just my personal experience with it. Hope that made any sense (I know I didn’t technically answer literally taking them together).
 
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