Meth N-iso: A Strange Rabbithole into an Widespread Illicit Drug Grift

[Methamphetanonymous]

Hello everyone. I've been working on some writings on phenomenon within online methamphetamine use communities. I followed a trail of claims of a mythical substance known as N-isopropylbenzylamine used to cut methamphetamine and causing dangerous effects on its users. It didn't take long for me to figure out that this is bullshit but what I did want to uncover was where it all began. And I think I have.

Please enjoy this fairly long read. Let me know if anyone here has insight on the history and perpetuation of this myth by bad faith actors online. This is not a topic about N-Iso being used as a common cutting agent (because it isn't) rather about the social phenomenon of this urban legend and where I believe it began. This is a small portion of a book that I am writing on the history of methamphetamine's online user culture.



“Jesus Christ dude you need to calm down. Just because there is a serious lack of empirical evidence doesn’t mean that (meth) isn’t cut.” — u/WhackaTwacka, Reddit 2022


“I just mean the people selling this shit could just pay two guys to go online and confuse everyone about what’s being used to cut their drugs. I’ve seen a lot of remarkably similar bullshit out there.” -HeisenbergSpecial, Reddit 2018 Confessing his grift via projection


So just to recap, N-isopropylbenzylamine hysteria is present all over r/meth r/stims and other dedicated subreddits. It is posted about near daily. Although a growing number of skeptics are beginning to ask harder questions, it seems that N-isopropylbenzylamine’s presence as a cutting agent of methamphetamine is near universally accepted among methamphetamine users online.


So let’s move on to another interesting set of questions; where is the evidence that N-isopropylbenzylamine is present at all as a cutting agent for methamphetamine? When was this discovered?


Well, let’s start with the when. I began to search high and low on the internet for initial references and discussion about N-Iso cut methamphetamine. The farthest back claims of cut product are from seven years ago, in 2017. These claims seem to have popped up around the same time on multiple discussion platforms including Reddit, BlueLight, and Drugs-Forum. These claims seem to all originate to one or two individuals: u/HeisenbergSpecial on Reddit who also goes by OnePot on Drugs-Forum and I strongly suspect but can not verify that he is attached to other pseudonyms on other forums like Bluelight.


HeisenbergSpecial popped up in 2013 on Reddit during the peak of final season of the hit TV show “Breaking Bad”. This user discusses Breaking Bad often, and their first posts were “Ask Me Anything”(AMA) revolving around their self identy as a meth lab operator/clandestine chemist. This is an important part of this persons identity, however it is also entirely unverified. There is no evidence that this person is a chemist or has particularly unique insight on chemistry. What I mean by that is they tend to comment relatively basic concepts of chemistry but with a performative grandeousity that is a bit easy to be lulled into at first. They sound like an authority on the subject, and given that Breaking Bad is fresh on everybody’s mind at this point in time, this person is capitalizing on the idea of a highly educated chemist turning to methamphetamine production. Hell even I bought it when I first began looking into N-Iso.


However reviewing their posts and comments with a different lens, one of a grifter it suddenly begins to paint a different picture. Their chemistry knowledge is rivaled by mine; a person who one year ago wouldn’t make heads or tails of “chirality” or “reductive animation” or how to pronounce “methylamine”. But in a matter of weeks I brought myself up to speed on the entire chemical process of all routes of synthesizing meth, its history, and its chemical properties. I did this while working a full time job, maintaining a household and family as well as taking care of five cats and three dogs two of which are Australian Shepherds and require a lot of time and attention. Do not be impressed, the point I am making here is that it was easy to grasp all the concepts HeisenbergSpecial discusses during their time on Reddit in every single post and comment, and anyone with an hour or two a week who is dedicated can get a solid grasp on methamphetamine from a chemistry perspective. It is a very easy to understand compound which is part of why it saw such success as a domestically produced clandestine product. Anyone who wants to learn how to produce methamphetamine can in less than one semester’s time at university learn in detail how to do so and diagnose issues during the synth. (Note: this is not to imply that synthesizing meth is “easy” in the sense that anyone could go online, read measurements for a Birch Reduction and attempt to create a reaction in a two-liter bottle. It is however with some determination, critical thinking and curiosity fairly straightforward to learn and understand.)


So essentially what I’m saying is this HeisenbergSpecial character is not particularly unique or special(hah) in their understanding of chemistry. They are no authority on methamphetamine, but they are very good at sounding sophisticated and snobbish which presents a character of an Ivy League type doctorate of chemistry forced to produce meth to treat their ADHD. Sound ridiculous? I sure think so.


Anyways, a few years later across multiple anonymous online social platforms they begin aggressively spouting off about N-isopropylbenzylamine making up 50% of racemic methamphetamine crossing the boarder. For the record and we will break this down more later there is pretty clear evidence that the cartel is able to create 90% yields of enantiomically pure dextroamphetamine through some fairly rudimentary conversions. HeisenbergSpecial chooses to ignore this and claims with no evidence but their own authority (this is a common and exhausting trope with this person) that methamphetamine made in Mexican superlabs is not enantiomically pure, and only 25% at most of the product coming into the US is the desired domimergenic dextrorotary methamphetamine isomer, or the stuff that gets you high. In reality methamphetamine produced by phenyl-2-propanone and converted into dextro-methamphetamine is so dirt cheap and easy to scale up to industrial production that most samples of methamphetamine siezed during boarder smuggling is above 90% pure methamphetamine. In fact testing suggests it is more pure than ever in clandestine meth history.


HeisenbergSpecial knows this, and describes how racemic meth can be seperated and optimized into maximum potency IN THEIR AMA THREAD. So they know it’s possible, they know it can be done, and considering it has been done since around 2010/2011 the process was well documented and publicly available two to three years before HeisenbergSpecial posted their AMA.


So what am I implying here? That this person and a couple of friends made up N-isopropylbenzylamine’s presence in methamphetamine entirely? You bet. But why, you may ask? Well, just go check out their profile on Reddit for about 15 minutes.

This person has a super transparent agenda from their post history, they constantly are asking for donations based entirely on the huge success of their relatively yawn worthy AMA. Initially the grift is that they are “writing a book” which never was published after a decade.

However once their self identity as Meth Jesus, come to save meth users from the evil cutting agent N-isopropylbenzylamine reveals itself, suddenly they need donations to develop methods to seperate N-iso from meth. Yikes… that seems a little obvious in retrospect doesn’t it? They also claim to need donations to develop I don’t know like, a new synthesis for meth to return it to being a good ole USA Made product? Yeah who knows, the point is there is a massive financial conflict of interest.

Okay so what we’re working with here upon examining this users post history is a MASSIVELY insecure narcissist (who on close inspection reveals their condition through projection several times) fabricating a meth boogeyman with no evidence at all, and turning around and asking for cash. So how did they manage to dupe an entire community for a decade and counting? Well for one they didn’t, BlueLight and Drugs-Forum called bull fucking shenanigans from the start, much to HeisenbergSpecial’s ire. They publicly shared on Reddit their whiney arguments with members of these forums seeking validation from the community. It’s actually pretty delightful so please check it out. They also begin making posts setting the table for dissenters to be labeled as the ones with an agenda. As you can see in their quote at the beginning of this article, this is right in step with the projection and manipulation of a narcissist.

I believe their success was pretty simple, I mentioned this at the beginning of volume one: take a community of stigmatized, isolated users of a drug with a profile of extreme paranoia, delusions of persecution(sometimes the fear of persecution is quite valid given that nature of meth and the stereotypes cast on its users), and anxiety and boom. It helps that this person has superficial credibility from their 3000+ commented on AMA, performative sophistication and educational background, and their “savior of meth” motivation. That HeisenbergSpecial just wants to Make Meth Great Again, what a good guy!

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

Furthermore present in every drug community but very much so with meth, you’ve got a sizeable population of older users who for whatever reason are certain that meth just ain’t the same anymore. That back when they were young, fit, attractive with less responsibilities and a body and brain that can take a beating. This mindset kindof is particularly powerful in the meth community for three reasons:

1. The restrictions on pseudoephedrine resulted in imported cartel meth using a different precursor chemical: phenyl-2-propanone. This is a PERFECT justification and explanation of why the meth don’t got legs or hit the same anymore.
2. Don’t underestimate casual racism and nationalism. Old heads capitalize on the idea that Mexicans want to push a dirty shitty product, aren’t smart enough for complex chemistry or consistent lab standards, and don’t give a shit about their customers at all. Yep, it’s the ole “they took our jeeeerbs” trope that SouthPark lampooned years ago. Back in the pseudo days when meth was MADE IN THE USA the cooks fuckin cared God damnit. They had STANDARDS. In reality it’s not difficult to imagine that it isn’t far fetched at all for the cartel scientists to have an interest of creating a product they are proud of. It’s not difficult to imagine that there are BRILLIANT scientific minds working for the cartels. And good ole capitalist competition would lean towards the natural inclination to create a better product than that other guy is.
3. Fentanyl. Around the time N-Iso took off, heroin cut with fentanyl was ravaging the nation. Overdoses due to users expecting heroin and injecting instead a drug tenfold the potency they expected sky-rocketed. In fact opiate overdose eclipsed car crashes as a cause of death nationwide. That is absolutely insanely widespread. And it sure would put every single illicit drug user on edge of a horror story cut being snuck into their meth by foreigners. The thing is though, fentanyl can be produced synthetically in a building for dirt cheap. No sprawling fields of poppies to tend to, or that can be spotted plainly by the DEA and Federales helicopters. It is also so powerful that less weight to potency of product is able to cross the boarder drawing less suspicion and if a bust does happen, less product weight is lost. The thing is though… all of what I just said is true of METH. Methamphetamine IS the fentanyl of stimulants. It even is used as a cutting agent itself! Meth is not in danger, it IS the danger. Meth IS the one who knocks!

I made a comparison earlier noting that nearly all street sold pressed opiate prescription pills are actually fentanyl disguised as Vicodin or Percocet or Oxy’s. So too are street level Addreall, Zenzedi, and Dexedrine pills almost garunteed to be entirely the cheaper to produce methamphetamine. While I admittedly don’t know the background of why Xylazene is appearing as a cutting agent of fentanyl, there are few cutting agents to bother with that mess for a product as cheap and easily made as methamphetamine

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

So there you have it, natural paranoia, isolation in a social bubble which reduces diversity of thought, an easy to follow good guys vs bad guys narrative, validation that the product is “different”, and throw in understandable fentanyl esque panic and you’ve got a community that WANTS N-Iso. They WANT to believe in this thing, they were waiting for this.

It isn’t fun to be wrong, so once folks are secured and caught hook line and sinker in this belief, it would take a whole lot to break the trance and likely is impossible in stubborn believers. So who needs evidence when the majority of your audience is sold before you even start selling? Well, there are gonna be skeptics even on Reddit. Some who even happen to be something of a chemist themselves. How do you get them on board?

It’s simple, manufacture a shit load of evidence and hope nobody starts digging. Well it’s not exactly simple, it’s deranged and obsessive, but it’s precisely what happened.

Erowid’s harm reduction centered lab has been testing samples of methamphetamine for years. They encourage anyone who suspects the presence of N-isopropylbenzylamine in their meth to send them samples to analyze. They have uncovered results that are pretty much completely consistent with the DEA, the vast majority of meth is more pure than ever and unadulterated even at the damn consumer level. They found precisely one sample sent to them that contained N-Iso, and that sample had zero methamphetamine. It wasn’t rerocked or cut, it was just N-Iso masquerading as meth. And the sample was tested shortly after the year HeisenbergSpecial got on his N-Iso soapbox. Kinda makes you wonder…

And just of note; a structural isomer which N-isopropylbenzylamine is of meth as we outlined earlier does not garuntee by any means that it shares properties similar enough to meth than it can be recrystallizated into meth. Now N-iso is extremely mysterious, and I have found zero definitive agreement on what it is or does. Maybe it can rerock with meth. But I find this claim dubious- as never once is this demonstrated or tested by anybody. It's just some random goof balls insisting that they know what they're talking about. OK.

Anyways in recent years of the hundreds of samples of methamphetamine sent to Erowid, a handful have shown positive for N-Iso. Never recrystalized with meth, either purely N-Iso or shards of N-iso mixed with shards of meth seperately. This actually kindof surprised me. I was expecting a “self fulfilling prophecy” type scenario where all the N-Iso fuss would inspire deviant street level dealers to use N-Iso to cut meth. My suspicion it isn’t worth the money or the hassle to bother ordering N-Iso when meth is so popular and cheap.

So once the illusion began to crumble, I took to Reddit to proclaim my skepticism and doubt, hoping to find information or evidence that I had missed. My posts were within hours quickly overrun with dissenters, calling me a Fed or accusing me of loving the cartel, or spreading an agenda maliciously. It wouldn’t take me long to notice that the majority of dissenters sure did seem to have eerily identical and rehearsed talking points as well as striking similar behaviors and writing styles. I started examining these profiles on Reddit to hopefully unravel more of the rabbithole, however I quickly realized that most of them were dummy accounts. Entirely new, their only comments or posts promoting the N-Iso lore. That is not to say that there are zero authentic people who believe in N-Iso, but a disturbing amount of the profiles I began to suspect belong to one or two individuals.

Yeah, this rabbithole runs incredibly deep. From wacky characters whose identity is entirely revolved around N-Iso (the “N-isopropylbenzylamine Zodiac Killer” is one of the more unhinged ones) to burner account coordinated mobbing, to folks openly bragging about doctoring the N-isopropylbenzylamine Wikipedia page.

It wouldn’t take long of this arguing with blank accounts for me to just give up, and watch the shit show from the sidelines. But there was one person I desperately wanted to speak with. This person I had grown to despise, demonize, in my mind they were the Darth Vader to my Luke Skywalker: HeisenbergSpecial.

I reached the end of the line, and discovered a tragedy which all but confirmed my suspicions. One of HeisenbergSpecial’s burner accounts made a final post, claiming that the person behind the accounts was a troubled mentally ill individual. An indivdual who was struggling with their identity as a transgender person. They claimed that HeisenbergSpecial was arrested crossing the boarder with massive quantities of sweet sweet pseudoephedrine just like grandma used to make. In their anguish faced with an essentially life sentence, they took their own life.

Suddenly the detective act I adopted wasn’t fun anymore. I felt a sobering grief. This person was a human, not just words on a screen. Regardless of why they chose to decieve an entire community, they were a flesh and blood person living a difficult and troubled life which got to be too much for them. It wasn’t a cat and mouse game, I wasn’t closing in on my prey, the story had ended before it even began for me

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

Wait, crossing the border? With pseudoephedrine? Isn’t the whole reason the cartel shifted to phenyl-2-propanone because pseudoephedrine is nearly impossibly difficult to aquire in Mexico too? And hold on a second, that’s an awfully poetic end, the Meth Jesus narcissist was trying to use the money they grifted — - sorry earned through donations to actually bring back some batches of sweet sweet old school methamphetamine? And poetically took their life like Romeo and Juliet? Or met a cold end doing what they loved like WALTER WHITE?

I have my doubts. That N-isopropylbenzylamine Zodiac guy sureeeee makes a lot of D.B. Cooper references.

We may never know. But what I do know is that N-Iso is not a widespread cutting agent of meth, in fact it is extremely rare. Does that mean that all the old folks saying that meth doesn’t hit the same are liars or delusional? No, not at all.

What it means is it’s time to move on to other theories.

Or maybe accept that drugs aren’t as fun as you get older.

\[Interestingly, nearly every single citation on the N-isopropylbenzylamine Wikipedia page either has nothing to do with N-isopropylbenzylamine, is a dead link, or are Department of Justice authored by non-existent individuals. One commonly thrown around study published in a Chinese journal upon closer inspection is entirely fabricated. That same journal was sued and dropped by its parent company amid evidence that thousands of studies were published with no oversight for a price.]

 

[Jabberwocky]

One of the better writings on the topic, which has been discussed heavily here as well.

Have you read this, though?

DrugsData | Meth and the N-Isopropylbenzylamine “N-Iso” Boogeyman – Erowid Crew Blog

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

One of the better writings on the topic, which has been discussed heavily here as well.

Have you read this, though?

DrugsData | Meth and the N-Isopropylbenzylamine “N-Iso” Boogeyman – Erowid Crew Blog

Yes I believe that is the lab operated by Erowid I mention which found only a handful of N-isopropylbenzylamine being masqueraded as meth. Interestingly they found more samples of K that was adulterated with N-Iso than meth.

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

I'm going to put this explanation of "Super Meth" which believers of N-isopropylbenzylamine lore tend to cite as an official source acknowledging something wrong with modern meth. I think this ties into my main post nicely.


"Super meth" is a term invented by an alleged journalist named Sam Quinones; who in my humble opinion is a total hack fraud with a bizarre angle of creating a narrative around meth and fentanyl: romanticizing of harmful addictive substances of the past being ruined by modern synthetic drugs. Fuckin kids these days, am I right?

Anyways I'm not going to link his trash piece in The Atlantic, or his other trash piece in an LA based magazine. Instead I will sum it up, he claims based on interviews with homeless meth users on Skid Row that modern meth is different. We've heard this shit before although it was referred to as "sleepy dope". But Quinones suggests this meth made by what he claims is a brand spankin new synthesis of methamphetamine using a synthetic chemical called phenylacetone or phenyl-2-propanone and subjected to reductive animation. Sam suggests based on literally nothing that P2P meth which he continues to refer to as "new" reduces users to secondary psychosis and societal hatred, violence, and debauchery nearly instantly unlike the old good party drug meth synthed from all natural plant alkaloids. P2P makes METH ZOMBIES. Hell yeah, America loves a good "drug of the week" turns folks into zombies narrative. Lets fucking GO. (This in fact was meths very first clandestine form before becoming "crystal meth". Essentially both substances are methamphetamine hydrochloride, but bikers didn't bother to make shards of meth as smoking crystaline hydrochloride salts wasn't even conceivable at the time. And yes, there is no evidence that one could not form large crystals from a racemic blend. The Hells Angels simply just didn't. In the 60s and 70s you snorted or shot speed. Later methamphetamine hydrochloride began being vaporized in pipes in Hawaii. I can elaborate on why methamphetamine is able to be smoked as a stabilized salt where other compounds like cocaine must be brought to their "freebase" state.)

So Sam Quinones just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Neither do I, but I did some Googling, checked out books from my library, and made sure I had my history straight before putting pen to the paper. Anyways what Sam fails to mention is that modern methamphetamine is treated with a process the bikers either didn't have the care or freedom of law enforcement presence the cartel does to take the racemic yield of reductive animation, and purify it into 90% or more pure dextromethamphetamine, the more potent isomer of meth. (L-meth does basically nothing when paired with meth. L-meth is SLIGHTLY more selective of norepinephrine than D-meth, and has very much less affinity for dopamine than D-meth. But when paired together they both do in fact increase synaptic cleft concentrations of monoamines; dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine. Trace amounts of L-meth don't destabilize the subjective high of D-meth.)

Anyways, methamphetamine is kindof "super" in the sense that it is purer than ever, more potent than ever (purity is how much of a sample is meth present, not accounting for enantiomic percentage. Potency is how much of the meth present is d-meth. A NIH study that tickled my imagination suggested in double blind conditions that veteran meth users could not distinguish between racemic meth 50% d and 50% l, or 100% potent d-meth. I'm guessing once you're taking recreational dosages which are "megadoses" compared to pharma doses, you just max out dopamine and norepinephrine regardless of which isomers are present. Perhaps in slightly above thershold doses the distinction between ue isomers is more noticable, but I can kindof understand how the results of that study suggest there is no difference between racemic and dextromethamphetamine effects.) available for dirt cheap- the lowest street prices ever, and in MASSIVE quantities than a bunch of competing and inconsistent individual domestic chemists could not be capable of. This is entirely why users have negative subjective effects.

They're just overdosing on meth everytime they use it. They hit the bowl like it's weed and then panic fap for 20 hours before their body fails and forces sleep. Or worst case users develop symptoms of rhabdo.

Sam basically admits this in an interview when an almost responsible journalist pokes the same holes in his story. Nothing about modern meth is "new" or "different" chemically. D-meth is D-meth- whether your tweaker friends smurf up some cough pills and cook in a barn, or the cartel synths it through artificial means. It's just stronger, more available, and spreading WILDLY as amphetamine based stimulants are under a fucking shortage post COVID. New ADHD patients diagnosed by telehealth doctors, stupidly repeating the opioid epidemic catalyts, and now folks are discovering that meth is suddenly everywhere again.

Can't tell you how many fools on Reddit have now gotten their start on meth use as a substitute for their prescription stimulants.

I mean I did.

(My favorite part of the article is when Sam opines seemingly with sadness and regret that ALL NATURAL organic drugs like heroin and fucking pseudometh have been replaced by scary synthetics.

However more seriously his article only deepers the gap between the homeless- users of meth- and the rest of society that could have intercepted and re-routed them before it was too late. Fuck that guy.)

 

[negrogesic]

I'm going to put this explanation of "Super Meth" which believers of N-isopropylbenzylamine lore tend to cite as an official source acknowledging something wrong with modern meth. I think this ties into my main post nicely.


"Super meth" is a term invented by an alleged journalist named Sam Quinones; who in my humble opinion is a total hack fraud with a bizarre angle of creating a narrative around meth and fentanyl: romanticizing of harmful addictive substances of the past being ruined by modern synthetic drugs. Fuckin kids these days, am I right?

Anyways I'm not going to link his trash piece in The Atlantic, or his other trash piece in an LA based magazine. Instead I will sum it up, he claims based on interviews with homeless meth users on Skid Row that modern meth is different. We've heard this shit before although it was referred to as "sleepy dope". But Quinones suggests this meth made by what he claims is a brand spankin new synthesis of methamphetamine using a synthetic chemical called phenylacetone or phenyl-2-propanone and subjected to reductive animation. Sam suggests based on literally nothing that P2P meth which he continues to refer to as "new" reduces users to secondary psychosis and societal hatred, violence, and debauchery nearly instantly unlike the old good party drug meth synthed from all natural plant alkaloids. P2P makes METH ZOMBIES. Hell yeah, America loves a good "drug of the week" turns folks into zombies narrative. Lets fucking GO. (This in fact was meths very first clandestine form before becoming "crystal meth". Essentially both substances are methamphetamine hydrochloride, but bikers didn't bother to make shards of meth as smoking crystaline hydrochloride salts wasn't even conceivable at the time. And yes, there is no evidence that one could not form large crystals from a racemic blend. The Hells Angels simply just didn't. In the 60s and 70s you snorted or shot speed. Later methamphetamine hydrochloride began being vaporized in pipes in Hawaii. I can elaborate on why methamphetamine is able to be smoked as a stabilized salt where other compounds like cocaine must be brought to their "freebase" state.)

So Sam Quinones just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Neither do I, but I did some Googling, checked out books from my library, and made sure I had my history straight before putting pen to the paper. Anyways what Sam fails to mention is that modern methamphetamine is treated with a process the bikers either didn't have the care or freedom of law enforcement presence the cartel does to take the racemic yield of reductive animation, and purify it into 90% or more pure dextromethamphetamine, the more potent isomer of meth. (L-meth does basically nothing when paired with meth. L-meth is SLIGHTLY more selective of norepinephrine than D-meth, and has very much less affinity for dopamine than D-meth. But when paired together they both do in fact increase synaptic cleft concentrations of monoamines; dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine. Trace amounts of L-meth don't destabilize the subjective high of D-meth.)

Anyways, methamphetamine is kindof "super" in the sense that it is purer than ever, more potent than ever (purity is how much of a sample is meth present, not accounting for enantiomic percentage. Potency is how much of the meth present is d-meth. A NIH study that tickled my imagination suggested in double blind conditions that veteran meth users could not distinguish between racemic meth 50% d and 50% l, or 100% potent d-meth. I'm guessing once you're taking recreational dosages which are "megadoses" compared to pharma doses, you just max out dopamine and norepinephrine regardless of which isomers are present. Perhaps in slightly above thershold doses the distinction between ue isomers is more noticable, but I can kindof understand how the results of that study suggest there is no difference between racemic and dextromethamphetamine effects.) available for dirt cheap- the lowest street prices ever, and in MASSIVE quantities than a bunch of competing and inconsistent individual domestic chemists could not be capable of. This is entirely why users have negative subjective effects.

They're just overdosing on meth everytime they use it. They hit the bowl like it's weed and then panic fap for 20 hours before their body fails and forces sleep. Or worst case users develop symptoms of rhabdo.

Sam basically admits this in an interview when an almost responsible journalist pokes the same holes in his story. Nothing about modern meth is "new" or "different" chemically. D-meth is D-meth- whether your tweaker friends smurf up some cough pills and cook in a barn, or the cartel synths it through artificial means. It's just stronger, more available, and spreading WILDLY as amphetamine based stimulants are under a fucking shortage post COVID. New ADHD patients diagnosed by telehealth doctors, stupidly repeating the opioid epidemic catalyts, and now folks are discovering that meth is suddenly everywhere again.

Can't tell you how many fools on Reddit have now gotten their start on meth use as a substitute for their prescription stimulants.

I mean I did.

(My favorite part of the article is when Sam opines seemingly with sadness and regret that ALL NATURAL organic drugs like heroin and fucking pseudometh have been replaced by scary synthetics.

However more seriously his article only deepers the gap between the homeless- users of meth- and the rest of society that could have intercepted and re-routed them before it was too late. Fuck that guy.)

What makes meth "super meth" these days has nothing to do with the product but rather the price.

Mexican superlabs are pumping out vast quantities of potent meth. While it is mostly d-meth, it has enough l-meth (maybe 5-10%) to make it feel dirty compared to enantiomerically pure pseudoephedrine derived meth. But it is still potent shit nonetheless, and is rarely cut (since cutting isnt worth the hassle given the limitless supply).

So what makes "supermeth" so super is the price. It is super cheap rather than super strong, with an 8th of crystal meth now costing less than an 8th of dispensary weed (at least where im from). It sells for less than half of what good pseudoephedrine derived meth used to sell for a decade ago. Or perhaps closer to 1/3rd of the price.

This super cheap meth, of reasonably high purity and potency, allows users to take super high doses, affordably. So that is the problem we're having, a vast supply of dirt cheap meth. Nothing super about it other than the super low prices.

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

What makes meth "super meth" these days has nothing to do with the product but rather the price.

Mexican superlabs are pumping out vast quantities of potent meth. While it is mostly d-meth, it has enough l-meth (maybe 5-10%) to make it feel dirty compared to enantiomerically pure pseudoephedrine derived meth. But it is still potent shit nonetheless, and is rarely cut (since cutting isnt worth the hassle given the limitless supply).

So what makes "supermeth" so super is the price. It is super cheap rather than super strong, with an 8th of crystal meth now costing less than an 8th of dispensary weed (at least where im from). It sells for less than half of what good pseudoephedrine derived meth used to sell for a decade ago. Or perhaps closer to 1/3rd of the price.

This super cheap meth, of reasonably high purity and potency, allows users to take super high doses, affordably. So that is the problem we're having, a vast supply of dirt cheap meth. Nothing super about it other than the super low prices.

I'd agree with you there. It's cheap and a lot of new users are getting in the game. That plus the scale of manufactoring are the key elements explaining why we are seeing unusual numbers of alleged deadly "meth overdoses". (I have suspicions on how they determine a death is directly caused by overdosing on meth. I imagine a portion are relatively questionable but meth can certainly kill.) Also P2P meth which is 95 even as low as 85% d-meth is quite a bit more pure than small scale pseudoephedrine reductions which overwhelmingly fall into the 50%-70% d-meth range, with a greater chance to yield unreacted solvents or precursor, which of course multiplies by the lower skill/practiced a chemist is.

Adding some thoughts here on the possibility that l-meth present as low as 5-10% in a 98% pure meth sample would be of significant effect on a users experience compared to 98% pure d-meth alone. Personally I don't think so, l-meth seems pretty weak all around compared to d-meth however some studies kindof open the door for the possibility that a chunk of l-meth even 10% will add noticable unpleasant effects in a user. It's possible- but no explanation has been put forward that would explain why.

Levo-methamphetamine and dextromethamphetamines affinities are towarde the same monoamines. Levo is generally said to be quite benign and a peripheral nervous system stimulant (does not necessarily mean it causes discomfort) and dextromethamphetamine is a central nervous system stimulant.

I want to make clear that results of studies is not at all widespread agreed upon fact. Many factors can bring upon shockingly different results. So think of a study and its result as more of a "lets put a pin in that and try to replicate the result under different conditions." And studies are flawed, careless, or just wrong for unknown reasons all the time. Information on Levo, dextro, and racemic meth isn't super consistent.

I can not find any studies at this time which suggest that 90%d/10%l preparations of meth or amph produce noticably different suvjective effects than 98%d.

One study finds that dextromethamphetamine is all around 11 times more potent than levo meth. Including uncomfortable side effects. This was done on rats I believe.

One double blind study on humans shows experienced meth users unable to differentiate between racemic meth (50%d / 50%l) and enantiomically pure 100% d meth.

Another implies that l-meth shows stronger CNS and peripheral cardiovascular effects than d-meth in low doses, but d-meth out paces l-meth five fold in larger doses.

Both isomers may result in unique metabolites that are psychoactive on their own. This may explain the levo-meth physical dextro-meth psychological phenomenon. I myself will admit that pharmaceutical dextroamphetamine to my sense feels "smoother" and less harsh on the comedown than something like say Adderall which is a blend of the isomers favoring d-amph but 25% l-amph

I've obsessed over the two isomers for answers... and there just isn't anything definative. Cautiously I'd say if you were to consume l-meth and only l-meth you would need four or five times a weighed dose as d-meth to achieve ANY effect, and that effect would primarily be pretty unpleasant.

But given that d-meth is more targeted in its affinities- once you've graduated beyond 100mg recreational doses you're just rocking your monoamines so hard that it just doesn't make much of a difference as long as it's ~mostly~ (60% or greater) d-meth. At higher and higher doses, even pure d-meth will give extremely unpleasant effects as norepinephrine lingers in the brain longer than dopamine, so once the high wears off the jittery physical effects still remain. Meth and Amph in high doses are pretty hard on the body regardless of enantiomers.


I offer this theory; perhaps the physical stimulant effects from some l-meth present may be beneficial or desirable to the user to caution them from reaching doses that will quickly "turn'" on them and become extremely unpleasant once elemination is in full swing. I mean the West Coast sure did seem to love biker meth. Staying up for days- insane physical energy and stamina- people sometimes discuss these unpleasant effects FONDLY. In fact some even during the pseudoephedrine years speak of psychosis fondly.

Personally I'm not convinced there's as big of a subjective profile difference between racemic and pure d-meth, except that d-meth in 98% purity could deceptively feel very mild to an inexperienced user until they have redosed into dangerous and unpleasant territory.

If l-meth is able to have such a strong profile even at a measely 5% presence, I think we should be looking at its metabolites, that's possibly where some magic happens that we're missing.


There's also the troubling ass problem of genetics.

"...in the latter, genetic influences accounted for 78% of variance in amphetamine abuse/dependence in men and 73% in women."

What frusterating bullshit.

Anyways yes you're right, the low low cost and the abundance of it particularly in cities where historically it was not favored are the most powerful factors here. Sorry for the tangent- I just find this all super fascinating. Just when you think you understand, something new and exciting leads down a different road every day.

 

[Luke232007]

I'm going to put this explanation of "Super Meth" which believers of N-isopropylbenzylamine lore tend to cite as an official source acknowledging something wrong with modern meth. I think this ties into my main post nicely.


"Super meth" is a term invented by an alleged journalist named Sam Quinones; who in my humble opinion is a total hack fraud with a bizarre angle of creating a narrative around meth and fentanyl: romanticizing of harmful addictive substances of the past being ruined by modern synthetic drugs. Fuckin kids these days, am I right?

Anyways I'm not going to link his trash piece in The Atlantic, or his other trash piece in an LA based magazine. Instead I will sum it up, he claims based on interviews with homeless meth users on Skid Row that modern meth is different. We've heard this shit before although it was referred to as "sleepy dope". But Quinones suggests this meth made by what he claims is a brand spankin new synthesis of methamphetamine using a synthetic chemical called phenylacetone or phenyl-2-propanone and subjected to reductive animation. Sam suggests based on literally nothing that P2P meth which he continues to refer to as "new" reduces users to secondary psychosis and societal hatred, violence, and debauchery nearly instantly unlike the old good party drug meth synthed from all natural plant alkaloids. P2P makes METH ZOMBIES. Hell yeah, America loves a good "drug of the week" turns folks into zombies narrative. Lets fucking GO. (This in fact was meths very first clandestine form before becoming "crystal meth". Essentially both substances are methamphetamine hydrochloride, but bikers didn't bother to make shards of meth as smoking crystaline hydrochloride salts wasn't even conceivable at the time. And yes, there is no evidence that one could not form large crystals from a racemic blend. The Hells Angels simply just didn't. In the 60s and 70s you snorted or shot speed. Later methamphetamine hydrochloride began being vaporized in pipes in Hawaii. I can elaborate on why methamphetamine is able to be smoked as a stabilized salt where other compounds like cocaine must be brought to their "freebase" state.)

So Sam Quinones just doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Neither do I, but I did some Googling, checked out books from my library, and made sure I had my history straight before putting pen to the paper. Anyways what Sam fails to mention is that modern methamphetamine is treated with a process the bikers either didn't have the care or freedom of law enforcement presence the cartel does to take the racemic yield of reductive animation, and purify it into 90% or more pure dextromethamphetamine, the more potent isomer of meth. (L-meth does basically nothing when paired with meth. L-meth is SLIGHTLY more selective of norepinephrine than D-meth, and has very much less affinity for dopamine than D-meth. But when paired together they both do in fact increase synaptic cleft concentrations of monoamines; dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine. Trace amounts of L-meth don't destabilize the subjective high of D-meth.)

Anyways, methamphetamine is kindof "super" in the sense that it is purer than ever, more potent than ever (purity is how much of a sample is meth present, not accounting for enantiomic percentage. Potency is how much of the meth present is d-meth. A NIH study that tickled my imagination suggested in double blind conditions that veteran meth users could not distinguish between racemic meth 50% d and 50% l, or 100% potent d-meth. I'm guessing once you're taking recreational dosages which are "megadoses" compared to pharma doses, you just max out dopamine and norepinephrine regardless of which isomers are present. Perhaps in slightly above thershold doses the distinction between ue isomers is more noticable, but I can kindof understand how the results of that study suggest there is no difference between racemic and dextromethamphetamine effects.) available for dirt cheap- the lowest street prices ever, and in MASSIVE quantities than a bunch of competing and inconsistent individual domestic chemists could not be capable of. This is entirely why users have negative subjective effects.

They're just overdosing on meth everytime they use it. They hit the bowl like it's weed and then panic fap for 20 hours before their body fails and forces sleep. Or worst case users develop symptoms of rhabdo.

Sam basically admits this in an interview when an almost responsible journalist pokes the same holes in his story. Nothing about modern meth is "new" or "different" chemically. D-meth is D-meth- whether your tweaker friends smurf up some cough pills and cook in a barn, or the cartel synths it through artificial means. It's just stronger, more available, and spreading WILDLY as amphetamine based stimulants are under a fucking shortage post COVID. New ADHD patients diagnosed by telehealth doctors, stupidly repeating the opioid epidemic catalyts, and now folks are discovering that meth is suddenly everywhere again.

Can't tell you how many fools on Reddit have now gotten their start on meth use as a substitute for their prescription stimulants.

I mean I did.

(My favorite part of the article is when Sam opines seemingly with sadness and regret that ALL NATURAL organic drugs like heroin and fucking pseudometh have been replaced by scary synthetics.

However more seriously his article only deepers the gap between the homeless- users of meth- and the rest of society that could have intercepted and re-routed them before it was too late. Fuck that guy.)

I have to agree wholeheartedly how does somebody write an article with no objective factual empirical evidence whatsoever Sam has failed to engage in any discussion on this as well probably got paid by the man oh wait

 

[Luke232007]

Hello everyone. I've been working on some writings on phenomenon within online methamphetamine use communities. I followed a trail of claims of a mythical substance known as N-isopropylbenzylamine used to cut methamphetamine and causing dangerous effects on its users. It didn't take long for me to figure out that this is bullshit but what I did want to uncover was where it all began. And I think I have.

Please enjoy this fairly long read. Let me know if anyone here has insight on the history and perpetuation of this myth by bad faith actors online. This is not a topic about N-Iso being used as a common cutting agent (because it isn't) rather about the social phenomenon of this urban legend and where I believe it began. This is a small portion of a book that I am writing on the history of methamphetamine's online user culture.



“Jesus Christ dude you need to calm down. Just because there is a serious lack of empirical evidence doesn’t mean that (meth) isn’t cut.” — u/WhackaTwacka, Reddit 2022


“I just mean the people selling this shit could just pay two guys to go online and confuse everyone about what’s being used to cut their drugs. I’ve seen a lot of remarkably similar bullshit out there.” -HeisenbergSpecial, Reddit 2018 Confessing his grift via projection


So just to recap, N-isopropylbenzylamine hysteria is present all over r/meth r/stims and other dedicated subreddits. It is posted about near daily. Although a growing number of skeptics are beginning to ask harder questions, it seems that N-isopropylbenzylamine’s presence as a cutting agent of methamphetamine is near universally accepted among methamphetamine users online.


So let’s move on to another interesting set of questions; where is the evidence that N-isopropylbenzylamine is present at all as a cutting agent for methamphetamine? When was this discovered?


Well, let’s start with the when. I began to search high and low on the internet for initial references and discussion about N-Iso cut methamphetamine. The farthest back claims of cut product are from seven years ago, in 2017. These claims seem to have popped up around the same time on multiple discussion platforms including Reddit, BlueLight, and Drugs-Forum. These claims seem to all originate to one or two individuals: u/HeisenbergSpecial on Reddit who also goes by OnePot on Drugs-Forum and I strongly suspect but can not verify that he is attached to other pseudonyms on other forums like Bluelight.


HeisenbergSpecial popped up in 2013 on Reddit during the peak of final season of the hit TV show “Breaking Bad”. This user discusses Breaking Bad often, and their first posts were “Ask Me Anything”(AMA) revolving around their self identy as a meth lab operator/clandestine chemist. This is an important part of this persons identity, however it is also entirely unverified. There is no evidence that this person is a chemist or has particularly unique insight on chemistry. What I mean by that is they tend to comment relatively basic concepts of chemistry but with a performative grandeousity that is a bit easy to be lulled into at first. They sound like an authority on the subject, and given that Breaking Bad is fresh on everybody’s mind at this point in time, this person is capitalizing on the idea of a highly educated chemist turning to methamphetamine production. Hell even I bought it when I first began looking into N-Iso.


However reviewing their posts and comments with a different lens, one of a grifter it suddenly begins to paint a different picture. Their chemistry knowledge is rivaled by mine; a person who one year ago wouldn’t make heads or tails of “chirality” or “reductive animation” or how to pronounce “methylamine”. But in a matter of weeks I brought myself up to speed on the entire chemical process of all routes of synthesizing meth, its history, and its chemical properties. I did this while working a full time job, maintaining a household and family as well as taking care of five cats and three dogs two of which are Australian Shepherds and require a lot of time and attention. Do not be impressed, the point I am making here is that it was easy to grasp all the concepts HeisenbergSpecial discusses during their time on Reddit in every single post and comment, and anyone with an hour or two a week who is dedicated can get a solid grasp on methamphetamine from a chemistry perspective. It is a very easy to understand compound which is part of why it saw such success as a domestically produced clandestine product. Anyone who wants to learn how to produce methamphetamine can in less than one semester’s time at university learn in detail how to do so and diagnose issues during the synth. (Note: this is not to imply that synthesizing meth is “easy” in the sense that anyone could go online, read measurements for a Birch Reduction and attempt to create a reaction in a two-liter bottle. It is however with some determination, critical thinking and curiosity fairly straightforward to learn and understand.)


So essentially what I’m saying is this HeisenbergSpecial character is not particularly unique or special(hah) in their understanding of chemistry. They are no authority on methamphetamine, but they are very good at sounding sophisticated and snobbish which presents a character of an Ivy League type doctorate of chemistry forced to produce meth to treat their ADHD. Sound ridiculous? I sure think so.


Anyways, a few years later across multiple anonymous online social platforms they begin aggressively spouting off about N-isopropylbenzylamine making up 50% of racemic methamphetamine crossing the boarder. For the record and we will break this down more later there is pretty clear evidence that the cartel is able to create 90% yields of enantiomically pure dextroamphetamine through some fairly rudimentary conversions. HeisenbergSpecial chooses to ignore this and claims with no evidence but their own authority (this is a common and exhausting trope with this person) that methamphetamine made in Mexican superlabs is not enantiomically pure, and only 25% at most of the product coming into the US is the desired domimergenic dextrorotary methamphetamine isomer, or the stuff that gets you high. In reality methamphetamine produced by phenyl-2-propanone and converted into dextro-methamphetamine is so dirt cheap and easy to scale up to industrial production that most samples of methamphetamine siezed during boarder smuggling is above 90% pure methamphetamine. In fact testing suggests it is more pure than ever in clandestine meth history.


HeisenbergSpecial knows this, and describes how racemic meth can be seperated and optimized into maximum potency IN THEIR AMA THREAD. So they know it’s possible, they know it can be done, and considering it has been done since around 2010/2011 the process was well documented and publicly available two to three years before HeisenbergSpecial posted their AMA.


So what am I implying here? That this person and a couple of friends made up N-isopropylbenzylamine’s presence in methamphetamine entirely? You bet. But why, you may ask? Well, just go check out their profile on Reddit for about 15 minutes.

This person has a super transparent agenda from their post history, they constantly are asking for donations based entirely on the huge success of their relatively yawn worthy AMA. Initially the grift is that they are “writing a book” which never was published after a decade.

However once their self identity as Meth Jesus, come to save meth users from the evil cutting agent N-isopropylbenzylamine reveals itself, suddenly they need donations to develop methods to seperate N-iso from meth. Yikes… that seems a little obvious in retrospect doesn’t it? They also claim to need donations to develop I don’t know like, a new synthesis for meth to return it to being a good ole USA Made product? Yeah who knows, the point is there is a massive financial conflict of interest.

Okay so what we’re working with here upon examining this users post history is a MASSIVELY insecure narcissist (who on close inspection reveals their condition through projection several times) fabricating a meth boogeyman with no evidence at all, and turning around and asking for cash. So how did they manage to dupe an entire community for a decade and counting? Well for one they didn’t, BlueLight and Drugs-Forum called bull fucking shenanigans from the start, much to HeisenbergSpecial’s ire. They publicly shared on Reddit their whiney arguments with members of these forums seeking validation from the community. It’s actually pretty delightful so please check it out. They also begin making posts setting the table for dissenters to be labeled as the ones with an agenda. As you can see in their quote at the beginning of this article, this is right in step with the projection and manipulation of a narcissist.

I believe their success was pretty simple, I mentioned this at the beginning of volume one: take a community of stigmatized, isolated users of a drug with a profile of extreme paranoia, delusions of persecution(sometimes the fear of persecution is quite valid given that nature of meth and the stereotypes cast on its users), and anxiety and boom. It helps that this person has superficial credibility from their 3000+ commented on AMA, performative sophistication and educational background, and their “savior of meth” motivation. That HeisenbergSpecial just wants to Make Meth Great Again, what a good guy!

Really tell me what test is it that distinguishes between ISO and meth?I can buy ISO at timu or various Chinese websites Alibaba whatever it's harder to believe it isn't used as a contaminant.

 

[mikeukldn]

Please stop storytelling and misleading both yourself and others. Let’s focus on the FACTS ONLY:



1. N-isopropylbenzylamine is an isomer of methamphetamine. Due to its almost identical appearance and physical characteristics, it has been used to adulterate methamphetamine or has been substituted entirely and distributed as fake "Ice" methamphetamine.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36162621/



2. In contrast to methamphetamine consumption, where users report feelings of exhilaration, increased confidence, arousal, and a sense of well-being, users of n-isopropylbenzylamine have reported headaches, confusion, extreme brain fog, and feelings of isolation.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300483X22002499



3. Users' observations and claims are valid. Despite posts claiming overdoses on pure meth and perpetuating myths about n-isopropylbenzylamine, scientific publications clearly indicate that the majority of users will notice an immediate difference. Many users have noted a significant difference in their experiences when consuming N-IPB

instead of methamphetamine.

Scientific literature supports the idea that the majority of users will notice an immediate difference in effects between the two substances.

N‐Isopropylbenzylamine‐induced conditioned place preference, sensitization behaviour and self‐administration in rodents - PMC

N‐Isopropylbenzylamine (N‐ipb), a chain isomer of methamphetamine (METH) with similar physical properties, has been used as a substitute for METH in seized drug samples. However, the abuse potential of N‐ipb remains unclear. Therefore, this study ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Please trust your senses more than these articles! Listen to your gut! I am unsure of the intent behind these lengthy posts, but it seems they aim to confuse users and lead them to feel disappointed in crystal meth entirely, making them believe they are "junkies" with depleted chemical brains who cannot get high even from pure meth. This approach appears to hope that you will seek treatment and stop using. However, this perspective is immature and unhelpful.