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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

The Search For The Perfect Daily Drug

brokedownpalace10 said:
Hey. I've been reading about this and would love your opinion.
So, I've never microdosed but have thought about it. Will not do that now due to the possible risk. It's not proven yet, but it is in similar compounds so it's not at all unlikely.

I have just been diagnosed with some mild heart issues. Mild to moderate left ventricle enlargement being the biggest issue. No valve issues whatsoever. I'm nearly 69. "Not bad for a man my age.".
Anyway, what level of psychedelic use would you consider low risk? Please don't clutch pearls and play it safe and say, "none". Take into account that they have anti-addiction and other health benefits.
If a person used DMT a few times a day every week or two? Mushrooms, acid, et all every week or two? My use is definitely below that, but just to play devil's advocate what would you think of that?
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I'm not a physician so make sure you discuss things with your doc to find out your risks

Left ventricular enlargement might be benign depending on your lifestyle and whether you have a preserved ejection fraction or not. We start getting concerned about heart failure when the ventricles aren't able to push out all of the blood which can happen when the ventricles are weaker and enlarged. The ventricles can become enlarged due to stretching and hypertrophy. If you have stretching without hypertrophy, that can be problematic. If there is hypertrophy without stretching, that can also be problematic because the ventricles can't fill enough to be efficient which decreases cardiac output but there is preserved ejection fraction.

Athletes can also experience left ventricular enlargement but its generally benign because the strength of the muscle is preserved so their ejection fraction is preserved meaning the heart is pushing out the proper amount of blood, they just have increased stroke volume due to the cardiac load that they routinely place on themselves with strenuous exercise.

If your heart is weakening, the unfortunate answer might actually be none because as far as I'm aware all serotonergic psychedelics have an element of vasoconstriction which puts extra stress on the heart, its just harder for the heart to push blood out into the aorta of there is higher resistance. When the heart is already starting to weaken, this will just speed up the process. The same if you have preserved ejection fraction with ventricular enlargement, putting the extra load on the heart increases the rate of hypertrophy if that is your case as well.

Maybe ask your docs if you can do light cardio exercise and see if your heart situation improves, if you can strengthen your heart I bet you can use serotonergic psychedelics more safely but make sure you only undertake exercise under the advice of a physician, otherwise you may be putting yourself at risk. Heart health is no joke

I know that's not the answer you wanted but I feel like its the only one I can give responsibly
 
gordonliddy said:
Brilliant. This I think should be a stickied point. Heroin is appropriate for people with serious pain e.g. war injuries, extreme car accidents, mauled by a shark & etc.

It's not a party drug.

I was lucky that when I was a teenager I read an article in Spin magazine, an interview with famous guitarist Kim Deal. She sold a lot of albums and she's rich. The interviewer asked if heroin was glamorous, and she's like, "Glamorous? Look, I have money. Other people with money can travel. They can go to Asia, they can take vacation in Jamaica. I can't. I have to stay near my dealer. Heroins is boring, I can't do anything or go anywhere."

I'm like, "Damn, that's the last drug I will ever try."
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Heroin still has an official medical indication for acute severe pain, for instance during and following a cardiac infarction, also some cancers. For severe chronic pain or end-of-life care, other opiates with a longer half-life are more appropriate.

Personally however I took it to cope with PTSD, major depression and suicidality. Which it helped. It's the medical use for certain mental disorders that has fallen completely out of practice and ought to be re-instated.

Plus, I also defend its use as a recreational drug. Taken IN MODERATION it can be a fantastic social drug in my experience. The key is NON-DEPENDENT use. Once you have a dependency the rewards diminish and it becomes a chore to keep yourself supplied.
And nobody ever told me that distinction either. The two options presented to me were 'either be an instant addict (also total rubbish) and complete junkie or never touch the stuff at all'.
I would have found a balance in my recreational use much sooner and with much less damage to myself if I had known that was even a possibility. Likewise I would have been able to deal with my mental health issues much better if opiate treatment had been legally available to me.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
I'm not a physician so make sure you discuss things with your doc to find out your risks

Left ventricular enlargement might be benign depending on your lifestyle and whether you have a preserved ejection fraction or not. We start getting concerned about heart failure when the ventricles aren't able to push out all of the blood which can happen when the ventricles are weaker and enlarged. The ventricles can become enlarged due to stretching and hypertrophy. If you have stretching without hypertrophy, that can be problematic. If there is hypertrophy without stretching, that can also be problematic because the ventricles can't fill enough to be efficient which decreases cardiac output but there is preserved ejection fraction.

Athletes can also experience left ventricular enlargement but its generally benign because the strength of the muscle is preserved so their ejection fraction is preserved meaning the heart is pushing out the proper amount of blood, they just have increased stroke volume due to the cardiac load that they routinely place on themselves with strenuous exercise.

If your heart is weakening, the unfortunate answer might actually be none because as far as I'm aware all serotonergic psychedelics have an element of vasoconstriction which puts extra stress on the heart, its just harder for the heart to push blood out into the aorta of there is higher resistance. When the heart is already starting to weaken, this will just speed up the process. The same if you have preserved ejection fraction with ventricular enlargement, putting the extra load on the heart increases the rate of hypertrophy if that is your case as well.

Maybe ask your docs if you can do light cardio exercise and see if your heart situation improves, if you can strengthen your heart I bet you can use serotonergic psychedelics more safely but make sure you only undertake exercise under the advice of a physician, otherwise you may be putting yourself at risk. Heart health is no joke

I know that's not the answer you wanted but I feel like its the only one I can give responsibly
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The best thing about psychedelic legalization, if it ever happens, will be that they will actually study such things.
I like my coffee and my doc has pointed to studies which show that 2 cups or less a day is "perfectly safe". (Happens to be what I drink.)
You and I both know that 2 cups of coffee a day is not good for your heart. However, there have been studies which do show that the risk is not great.
Legalization might bring such studies to the table for psychedelics in a non-biased manner and then docs won't "play it safe" as they would right now.

I'm not super worried about vasoconstriction as coffee does cause some of that as well. The rest of the possible issues I'm pondering.

I read your answer with interest and I really do appreciate it. You've mentioned some other things I can look into.
I'm about to go out right now. I do intend to re-read. If you feel like posting more, it would be great.
To give you more data.
I am quite tall, 6'6"
I'm an old fart, but I have always worked out and although that is much less I still do 45 minutes of vigorous exercise 3 times a week and am active.
My left ventricle ejection fraction is 55%
I do have Sinus Bradychardia (slow heartbeat), but no symptoms of issues with it and the doc thinks it might be a sign of fitness.
 
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You and your doc are definitely right about the coffee. Theoretically excess caffeine drive sympathetic tone increasing vasoconstriction, BP, and heart rate but what really matters over the theory is the impact observed clinically and caffeine at ~200mg per day is unlikely to nave any real world negative impacts on a healthy individual.

Honestly if you've been a regular exerciser for a long time and you have changes that resemble athletes heart such as sinus bradycardia and LV enlargement you might actually be perfectly healthy rather than having reduced contractility seen in heart failure with reduced ejection fraction. According to this page I found from the mayo clinic, 50-70% is considered normal but again there are a lot of other variables so it'll take you working with your physician digging into your test results and stats to see if your heart is or isn't experiencing changes in its ability to effectively contract. I'm glad you're asking these questions and taking your health seriously! I think these are all important things for us to understand to lead healthy lives
 
If it's daily use for someone that works IMO it is:

dexamphetamine
adderall
vyavanse
concierta
Ritalin
Modanafil

more controversial with more risks- microdose meth, coke, tramadol
maybe microcode of shrooms of acid also

If you don't work or are retired, well choose your poison
 
If I could take d-amp therapeutically definitely that bit as far as realist drugs for daily use. Idk. I smoke weed regularly now and that’s it and I don’t do it every day so I just don’t think using drugs every day is good for me. Builds tolerance too fast then the drugs don’t work when you need them to.

For example, I just started IFS therapy which is very intense therapy where you work with your parts. I have a DID and CPTSD and that’s what the treatment is for so we had an intense session and working with deep trauma and I was in bad shape when I left my therapist office and my suicidal part was screaming “let’s end this!” And my drug using part stepped and said “No, I know how to handle this!” “ let’s get fucked up in stimulants and opioids” and then another part stepped in and said “how about we just smoke some weed” and negotiated with my drug using persona and so I just smoked a blunt and went to sleep.

Harm reduction at its finest!!!
 
garygroundwork said:
If it's daily use for someone that works IMO it is:

dexamphetamine
adderall
vyavanse
concierta
Ritalin
Modanafil

more controversial with more risks- microdose meth, coke, tramadol
maybe microcode of shrooms of acid also

If you don't work or are retired, well choose your poison
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Microdosing / low doses of meth are commonly used in medicine in the form of Desoxyn, 15-25 mg a day for many people treats ADHD effectively.

Pretty powerful even at low doses, great for working overtime.
 
Delta 8 tincture. Did it every day at night for two years. Onset is roughly an hour. Duration 6-8 hours.
Side effects are pain relief, binge eating, tiredness, sexual arousal, slow reaction time, laughing . Way less paranoid thoughts than smoking weed every day. Start low on dosage.

After two years I'm still at 75 mg oral. I just woke up from 10 hour sleep. It's like I'm a teenager again but way more calm man. :)

Side effects from withdrawal, first day irritability, sweating, boredom. Brian fog for a couple days. Stopped for 3 months and restarted dosing. Withdrawal symptoms extremely manageable.

No for everyone, but for those who enjoy low impact Downers, or the indica type highs from cannabis, it's a gem for sure.

That's my daily adventure 😎
 
Kingoffrogs said:
Slightly off topic but still relating to the main theme, people that use drugs regardless of their reasons for doing so are often seen "Druggies" or "Junkies", when in fact, most people that use drugs use them recreationally and do not abuse or become addicted to them.

Daily heroin use is seen as something that is TERRIBLE for you, while most people (I think) would say that drinking daily as an alcoholic is better for you than using heroin daily as an addict.

Drug users are often lumped in with criminals, when many of them aren't. Many people that take acid or shrooms or ketamine once or twice a month are seen as "worse" (whatever that means) than people who drink even 2 or 3 times a week.
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Absolutely.

I constantly see this stupid ass Youtube ad that starts out with this fat fed looking mother fucker & he says "like any addict will do, I would raid people's medicine cabinets".... I fucking hate that commercial cause it intentionally paints all drug users as thieves (not that many aren't), but it's still a generalization & a stereotype.
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
The best thing about psychedelic legalization, if it ever happens, will be that they will actually study such things.
I like my coffee and my doc has pointed to studies which show that 2 cups or less a day is "perfectly safe". (Happens to be what I drink.)
You and I both know that 2 cups of coffee a day is not good for your heart. However, there have been studies which do show that the risk is not great.
Legalization might bring such studies to the table for psychedelics in a non-biased manner and then docs won't "play it safe" as they would right now.

I'm not super worried about vasoconstriction as coffee does cause some of that as well. The rest of the possible issues I'm pondering.
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Official Psychedelic research as now is just starting to get attention through MDMA and PTSD, LSD and Ketamine are also in use. LSD is still in its testing fase but Ketamine treatment is even over here avaiable. A good thing, if they did the same with all the research they did on (legal) plant's and their capabilitie's to outbeat current pharmaceutical drugs. And started producing medication based upon what's best for he patient. Then the money that is now the main motivator (created by copyrights and such).

And Coffee, the oddball, I was alway's told you should not eat burned thing's as they contain PAC's. So how healthy can a burned bean be. Supposedly it's also good for the liver, afaik it just wakes my heart by putting it instanltly in 5-th gear. Green Coffee could be an healthy alternative but never saw any one drink a green Coffee like green Tea. Green Tea we know is healthy,

Coffee is big bussines so it could be just another fictional fact taken from a research aimed at delivering proof for postive health effect's. Like with red Wine, a glass of Alcohol a day and Milk happened. The health effect's were later on de-bunked.
 
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TheUltimateFixx said:
I also defend its use as a recreational drug. Taken IN MODERATION it can be a fantastic social drug in my experience. The key is NON-DEPENDENT use. Once you have a dependency the rewards diminish and it becomes a chore to keep yourself supplied.
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Thing is, it s hard to use in moderation something that feels so amazingly good and "works" in pretty much any situation, if you know what you are doing and don t end up nodding out at work etc......I had this problem especially with oxys, way more functional that smack in my experience, they were good to work, to chill, to party, to...whatever
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
caffeine is harder on your body than snorting clean heroin a few times a day.
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This is not always true. Caffeine exposes to stress, but if you manage moderate habit and you are not exceeding your stress tolerance even with caffeine use and manage to eat and sleep, it is not that bad, it won't necessarily turn into adverse stress. Coffee even has other compounds than caffeine that are healthy for your cardiovascular system, so if you are good respondent and all that, that might not apply.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
For me, the perfect daily drugs are caffeine, nicotine and cannabis (only at night).

Nothing else is sustainable on a long term basis.
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Yeah I agree, most opiods and benzos cause tolerance to ramp up so quickly it almost isn't even worth using some of them.
Seeing as amphetamines are neurotoxic last time I checked, I think Caffeine and Weed are king as far as daily drugs go.
 
boosting natural endorphines in ur body through different technics,to be content of good done job,to help somebody in need every moment he needs,to have an angel besides u-so nothing new that is not said in the past......a natural things......or talkin' about drugs-natural ones....those that u can pick up by yourself...but even these are not for everyday use...that's what i thinkin'
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
This is not always true. Caffeine exposes to stress, but if you manage moderate habit and you are not exceeding your stress tolerance even with caffeine use and manage to eat and sleep, it is not that bad, it won't necessarily turn into adverse stress. Coffee even has other compounds than caffeine that are healthy for your cardiovascular system, so if you are good respondent and all that, that might not apply.
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Maybe.

Caffeine gave me a heart arrhythmia (according to two doctors).
It also constricts your blood vessels, which can help with pain a bit but it prevents blood from flowing where it needs to be.


Heroin has no real effects on the heart (besides maybe slowing it down) and opioids tend to relax & open up blood vessels.


I would say the long term damage from using heroin is no worse (provided you treat & maintain the constipation from it), if not less than, what somebody would get from drinking caffeine long term. So caffeine may not be worse, but this doesn't mean heroin/opioids are any worse either.

I'm on year 17 of using opioids (almost daily) & I have zero health complications from it, besides some mild constipation once in awhile.
Although my daily use for the last 7 years or so has mostly consisted of shitty buprenorphine, which I'd argue is actually worse for your health than taking heroin. Since partial agonists increase cerebral spinal fluid pressure & full agonists don't.
 
skipjames said:
Thing is, it s hard to use in moderation something that feels so amazingly good and "works" in pretty much any situation, if you know what you are doing and don t end up nodding out at work etc......I had this problem especially with oxys, way more functional that smack in my experience, they were good to work, to chill, to party, to...whatever
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Oh sure. Dope is like alcohol in the sense that any occasion can serve as an occasion for having some. Feel bad? Need some to cheer me up. Feel good? Have some to make me feel even better. Feel indifferent? Might as well, I got nothing else to do etc. Xd
 
and a glasss of wine and an aspirin. coffee in the morning. pot always. I wouldn't over think it. When I was young I had a whole monthly schedule, stims mon n weds, benzos thurs and tues, opis on friday and saturday and a psychedelic on the sunday (catholic sabboth). Figured I could pull that off without risk of addiction. Add pot daily and alcohol with caution when wanted. Plan broke down into full addiction.

heroin if it was legal would be viable; assuming you have a large budget and amount of discipline to match it.
 
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