Kratom Kratom Megathread V.2

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Hey all,

I'm sure a couple of you might remember my previous post that I was having crippling panic attacks in the morning. I was able to cut my kratom dose in about half (now down to 6g 4x per day and I've stayed very regimented in it. I've also changed from my once in the morning gabapentin to morning and night. I do 300mg staggered every 30 minutes for a total of 1800mg in the morning, and 1200mg staggered in the evening. Ive also stayed very regimented on this as well. The panic attacks haven't come back! I do have some morning anxiety at times, but nothing like what I was experiencing.

This morning I woke up with that "agitated" discomfort your body feels from opioid withdrawal that makes it feel like you can't sign still/get comfortable, and that's what made me decide to write this post because I usually wake up feeling poorly, but not this feeling. Especially because it was only 8 hours since my last kratom dose and 12 since gabapentin. It seems like my morning higher gabapentin dose keeps me all good for the day and into the evening, but my evening dose doesn't last until the morning to get my morning gabapentin in. This surprises me because I figured by now my body would be used to that dose and would be fine.


Now, I know I need to continue tapering and quit to fully feel better, but I'm too scared to! I don't want to get disregulated again and start spiraling with the anxiety. I still feel like shit very frequently, especially in the morning before my gabapentin (which takes forever because of the staggering, but if I just take it all at once then I won't be absorbing nearly the same amount).

Sorry for yet another way too long post but just wondering if anyone else out there has had a similar experience and has any feedback or advice. I have other issues on top of these and I really want to get healthy again, but everything always feels so insurmountable, especially when you just feel like crap ALL THE TIME. The withdrawal feelings are just worse crap haha.

I'm on Gabapentin for neuropathy but also use it for anxiety and find it really helpful. I stagger 300mg doses every 30 mins too.
I'm glad it's helping! Anxiety and panic attacks are HORRIBLE.

 

[burn out]

I don't know about gapapentin but for me tapering kratom was difficult once I got into the low doses. When I finally quit, I found it was easier just stopping altogether than attempting to taper and it really wasn't so bad as tapering made it seem like it going to be. The way I quit was I had a tooth pulled and got prescribed codeine. I took the codeine for a few days with no kratom and then stopped. Once the codeine wore off, the acute kratom withdrawal was already over. I had PAWS for about 6 weeks afterward but it was mild enough I didn't miss any work and that was it.

So if you can get some codeine I would recommend that method, way easier than tapering. I think I was taking about 12 grams of kratom when I stopped and like I said I never felt any acute withdrawal. Tapering on the other hand, was very difficult as soon as the withdrawal would start it would be so difficult to not take another dose. I will say tapering kratom is a lot easier than tapering opiates in the sense that if I tried to cut my heroin dose in half, I'd feel painful withdrawal whereas with kratom reducing from a big habit to a smaller habit is easy. It's the last part where you're trying to stop completely that I find very difficult with kratom (and opiates too I suppose).

 

[Parabolan]

Panic attacks are the worst.

 

[Mycophile]

I'm just curious how often people here can do Kratom without getting any kind of withdrawal? Obviously lots of people just let themselves get dependent in order to be able to take it regularly, and I've considered it, but I think I'd eventually dislike being dependent and waking up in withdrawal everyday.

Lets say that you are dosing twice a day at whatever dose works for you (right now I'm usually only dosing 2.8 grams, so hopefully I won't let my tolerance get up too high.)

Last week I dosed twice on Thursday, once on Friday, then took Saturday off. Then I dosed twice Sunday, once Monday, and skipped Tuesday and Wednesday. I dosed twice today, and I'm wondering if I can get away with twice tomorrow without getting any significant withdrawal.

 

[Rachrach]

Noone can tell you because with the leaf the 2 pseudo-opioids within the leaf is miniscule & even then varies according to the time of year & plant-specific variables.

When you get into tinctures, capsules, et cetera, you have no idea what they actually contain. IF they contain Kratom at all, since there is no way to quantify the pseudo-opioids- Mitragynine & 7-hydroxy-Mitragynine- how can a producing source tell you what amount of either is within a preparation?

 

[ItsclearlyFake]

I dosed twice today, and I'm wondering if I can get away with twice tomorrow without getting any significant withdrawal.

lmao.
You obviously already are headed clearly into dependence.

 

[Mycophile]

lmao.
You obviously already are headed clearly into dependence.

First of all, why is that something you'd "laugh your ass off about?" Cause honestly, you kind of sound like an asshole.

Secondly, no shit sherlock. Sounds like you think I'm some kind of a noob who isn't aware of kratom dependency and how it works, but I've been taking Kratom on and off for 10 years, and I have repeatedly gotten dependent for short periods of time, then broken that dependency and gotten off it again, so while I'm "headed for TEMPORARY dependence," it won't be long term dependence.

What I'll do AT MY WORST is take it a few days too many, then once I realize I'm in withdrawal, I stop, and I have 3 days of withdrawal before it's over.

I also have access to naltrexone (full dose), so if I want, then 5 days after my last Kratom dose is when it's usually safe to get back on that. Then I can't take Kratom AT ALL because it won't work (or drink for the most part.) So the fact that I have access to that, and you probably don't, and can therefore decide anytime I want to make dependency impossible (so long as I've gone long enough without kratom that it's fully out of my system, AT LEAST 5 days) makes me laugh at you, because you probably think "this guy thinks he can avoid dependency like a fool, but he can't" because actually I CAN, it's just a matter of if I'd prefer to be dependent but have it help me with my depression and anxiety.

So, what was your point of posting to me?

 

[Mycophile]

So, I've got depression and anxiety, but Kratom works great for them. For 10 years or so I've allowed myself to use it on and off, but then if I get dependent I'll get 3 days of withdrawal where I'm tired and depressed. Then IF I don't want to be able to take it again, I'll take full dose naltrexone, (which I have a prescription for), then I can't take it again at all. I like that as it takes willpower out of the equation.

But part of me thinks maybe I should just give in and take it as my daily medicine. When I've done this I'm simply happier. But there are issues:

1) constipation: how do people take any kind of opioids regularly and still regularly take a shit? I don't think it's probably good to take laxatives too regularly. So what's to be done about that?

2) I can't sleep unless kratom has worn off like AT LEAST 5 hours before bed, so I definitely don't want to wake up in the middle of the night in withdrawal, because then I'd have to dose and that would keep me awake. However, one of my biggest WD symptoms is being tired, so I'd probably just go back to sleep.

3) How quickly do you go into withdrawal, and do you find life managable knowing you have to redose so often? And are there any other side effects that can happen as a result of Kratom addiction that I might not know about?


P.S. Note that I will most likely try to make or, even better, obtain Ultra Low Dose naltrexone to prevent withdrawal symptoms altogether. It behaves in a COMPLETELY OPPOSITE manner from full dose or even just low dose naltrexone, but still, there are the constipation issues, and to some extent the sleep problem as well as excess itching.

And for anyone who did used to try to avoid kratom dependency, but then decided to give in and use at for medicinal reasons (especially mental health reasons), did you feel it was the right choice? Was it worth it?

 

[Mycophile]

Noone can tell you because with the leaf the 2 pseudo-opioids within the leaf is miniscule & even then varies according to the time of year & plant-specific variables.

When you get into tinctures, capsules, et cetera, you have no idea what they actually contain. IF they contain Kratom at all, since there is no way to quantify the pseudo-opioids- Mitragynine & 7-hydroxy-Mitragynine- how can a producing source tell you what amount of either is within a preparation?

I usually avoid extracts and only take plain leaf.

Yes, I know it can vary, but I'm asking for other people here how often they can.

 

[Mjäll]

More days off than on.

 

[3rdPositionEnjoyer]

I usually avoid extracts and only take plain leaf.

Plenty of OD news stories mention specifically the extract form, albeit mixed with several other strong substances. I tried it once, and my god does it stim you up to what feels like twice as strong as the powder, the capsules seem stronger as well. Maybe I'm just getting crappier powder. Would be interesting to see a lab report on some brands on what the hell goes in there.

I find if I use it twice a day for 4 days a week then I dont really experience withdrawals. After the 5th day perhaps I sometimes imagine like my palms are sweating here and there throughout the day a bit, though nothing that stands out. Then again I tend to have some phenibut over the weekend.

 

[Rachrach]

I usually avoid extracts and only take plain leaf.

Yes, I know it can vary, but I'm asking for other people here how often they can.

The point is that IF it varies, a withdrawal can never be quantified on any level, much less on duration. Withdrawal depends on the amount ingested, as physical withdrawal ends when the body expels the target substance. All that anyone can say here is about their own subjective experience. That is of course never factual in any manner. That said, you might find value in whatever ways that they were able to overcome it but that will probably be more of a placebo effect.

 

[Mycophile]

Plenty of OD news stories mention specifically the extract form, albeit mixed with several other strong substances. I tried it once, and my god does it stim you up to what feels like twice as strong as the powder, the capsules seem stronger as well. Maybe I'm just getting crappier powder. Would be interesting to see a lab report on some brands on what the hell goes in there.

I find if I use it twice a day for 4 days a week then I dont really experience withdrawals. After the 5th day perhaps I sometimes imagine like my palms are sweating here and there throughout the day a bit, though nothing that stands out. Then again I tend to have some phenibut over the weekend.

I experience withdrawal if i use as often as that. I don't put much merit in the "OD stories." There have only ever been a handful of deaths where Kratom seems to have been the actual main culprit. Overall, it's a relatively safe substance, but the extracts would likely be more risky.

 

[3rdPositionEnjoyer]

I experience withdrawal if i use as often as that. I don't put much merit in the "OD stories." There have only ever been a handful of deaths where Kratom seems to have been the actual main culprit. Overall, it's a relatively safe substance, but the extracts would likely be more risky.

What do you experience? I've used it like 7 or 8 days in a row at most. about 7-18 grams a day. But I dont really know If i experience anything... I just get some palm sweating I think....

And yeah I think it's nearly impossible to OD via the powder, the nausea and vomiting are just unavoidable for you to even reach that point. Just those news stories want to lump in people using the extract mixed with like 4 other hard drugs and blame it mainly on the "kratom" for the headlines, even though the autopsies they reference don't single out any specific substance as the culprit.

 

[Mycophile]

What do you experience? I've used it like 7 or 8 days in a row at most. about 7-18 grams a day. But I dont really know If i experience anything... I just get some palm sweating I think....

And yeah I think it's nearly impossible to OD via the powder, the nausea and vomiting are just unavoidable for you to even reach that point. Just those news stories want to lump in people using the extract mixed with like 4 other hard drugs and blame it mainly on the "kratom" for the headlines, even though the autopsies they reference don't single out any specific substance as the culprit.

My main two symptoms are extreme exhaustion and depression (though I'm already depressed, but it's much worse), and I also get a runny nose sometimes. I basically just feel like sleeping non-stop.

Yeah, at your dosage and days in a row I'd be in it already, but I do take low doses of Klonopin which help. I've been spacing out doses that are a little less than 3 grams during certain days the past week, and on Friday I felt like I was going into a little mild WD. I skipped Saturday and planned on going at least 3 days without, but then I dosed once yesterday and thought I'd fucked up and was going to bring on more, but today I don't really feel like I'm in WD. It might be because of the one day I skipped, but I've never really had it show up on day 2. And every single time it lasts exactly 3 days for me. Some people experience different symptoms though. Many get insomnia, but I get hypersomnia.

 

[3rdPositionEnjoyer]

My main two symptoms are extreme exhaustion and depression (though I'm already depressed, but it's much worse), and I also get a runny nose sometimes. I basically just feel like sleeping non-stop.

Yeah, at your dosage and days in a row I'd be in it already, but I do take low doses of Klonopin which help. I've been spacing out doses that are a little less than 3 grams during certain days the past week, and on Friday I felt like I was going into a little mild WD. I skipped Saturday and planned on going at least 3 days without, but then I dosed once yesterday and thought I'd fucked up and was going to bring on more, but today I don't really feel like I'm in WD. It might be because of the one day I skipped, but I've never really had it show up on day 2. And every single time it lasts exactly 3 days for me. Some people experience different symptoms though. Many get insomnia, but I get hypersomnia.

Perhaps the quality of my kratom is just trash, since it is cheap when ordered online. And I definitely felt a stronger kick from headshop extracts and some capsules. But who the hell knows what else is in those.

Where do you get yours?

Also, I feel like I've felt that hypersomnia maybe a couple times in the morning when I got up after like 8 hrs of sleep, which confused me, but not really throughout the day. Though I cant usually tell for sure since I'm always waking up to go to work which makes it hard to have a rejuvenated mindset. So even if I sleep 7+ hrs, i struggle to force my mindset to think I'm rested and ready to start my day. Maybe the kratom is playing a part in this morning "depression/hypersomnia". Though I sometimes have a dab of weed before bed, which usually gives me some brain fog the next morning.

Maybe my physiology isn't as susceptible to this compound. Unlike I am to hard stims for example since ive always been a stim guy over opiates, benzos, etc. But I also work out 4-5 times a week and that always cures any "inner bitch" thoughts I may have for a few hours at least. I'm really curious if these kratom WDs are more physiological or psychological.

And on the weekends when I don't typically use kratom, I'll have a bit of phenibut which probably masks the worst of any withdrawals I might be having.

 

[OceansState]

I don't think Kratom does much for depression for me personally. I was/am taking it to help with withdrawals and i think it works great for the physical symptoms, but my depression/sadness was so bad I started taking Wellbutrin, which seems to be working after being on it a week. I don't think it helps with anxiety either, ill take a Gabapentin which seems to do the trick.

I take 1.5-2g doses 4-5 times a day and feel ok/good physically.

 

[Mycophile]

Perhaps the quality of my kratom is just trash, since it is cheap when ordered online. And I definitely felt a stronger kick from headshop extracts and some capsules. But who the hell knows what else is in those.

Where do you get yours?

Also, I feel like I've felt that hypersomnia maybe a couple times in the morning when I got up after like 8 hrs of sleep, which confused me, but not really throughout the day. Though I cant usually tell for sure since I'm always waking up to go to work which makes it hard to have a rejuvenated mindset. So even if I sleep 7+ hrs, i struggle to force my mindset to think I'm rested and ready to start my day. Maybe the kratom is playing a part in this morning "depression/hypersomnia". Though I sometimes have a dab of weed before bed, which usually gives me some brain fog the next morning.

Maybe my physiology isn't as susceptible to this compound. Unlike I am to hard stims for example since ive always been a stim guy over opiates, benzos, etc. But I also work out 4-5 times a week and that always cures any "inner bitch" thoughts I may have for a few hours at least. I'm really curious if these kratom WDs are more physiological or psychological.

And on the weekends when I don't typically use kratom, I'll have a bit of phenibut which probably masks the worst of any withdrawals I might be having.

While all wd generally has some psychological aspect, there's no question that if you do enough kratom it's psysiological/physical. It's a mu-opioid receptor agonist. Everyone knows it's addictive. It's actually highly unusual that you aren't getting wd with the amount you've been taking, but if you continue to take really high doses I think that there's probably no question that you will feel it sooner or later. I'm not saying that I want you to, I don't, but it's just that no one is immune to that kind of thing.

 

[Mycophile]

I don't think Kratom does much for depression for me personally. I was/am taking it to help with withdrawals and i think it works great for the physical symptoms, but my depression/sadness was so bad I started taking Wellbutrin, which seems to be working after being on it a week. I don't think it helps with anxiety either, ill take a Gabapentin which seems to do the trick.

I take 1.5-2g doses 4-5 times a day and feel ok/good physically.

Well, maybe it doesn't work for your depression/anxiety, but it works wonders for mine. Everyone responds to substances differently.

 

[Kizaru]

So, I've got depression and anxiety, but Kratom works great for them. For 10 years or so I've allowed myself to use it on and off, but then if I get dependent I'll get 3 days of withdrawal where I'm tired and depressed. Then IF I don't want to be able to take it again, I'll take full dose naltrexone, (which I have a prescription for), then I can't take it again at all. I like that as it takes willpower out of the equation.

But part of me thinks maybe I should just give in and take it as my daily medicine. When I've done this I'm simply happier. But there are issues:

1) constipation: how do people take any kind of opioids regularly and still regularly take a shit? I don't think it's probably good to take laxatives too regularly. So what's to be done about that?

2) I can't sleep unless kratom has worn off like AT LEAST 5 hours before bed, so I definitely don't want to wake up in the middle of the night in withdrawal, because then I'd have to dose and that would keep me awake. However, one of my biggest WD symptoms is being tired, so I'd probably just go back to sleep.

3) How quickly do you go into withdrawal, and do you find life managable knowing you have to redose so often? And are there any other side effects that can happen as a result of Kratom addiction that I might not know about?


P.S. Note that I will most likely try to make or, even better, obtain Ultra Low Dose naltrexone to prevent withdrawal symptoms altogether. It behaves in a COMPLETELY OPPOSITE manner from full dose or even just low dose naltrexone, but still, there are the constipation issues, and to some extent the sleep problem as well as excess itching.

And for anyone who did used to try to avoid kratom dependency, but then decided to give in and use at for medicinal reasons (especially mental health reasons), did you feel it was the right choice? Was it worth it?

I never get people complaining about kratom withdrawal , this shit ain't physically addictive unless you are some girl with zero tolerance for any side effect . Used it 3 months straight 20/30 grams daily not even a slight rebound was noticable . Using stuff for depression always leads instantly to addiction its unavoidable , stuff stops working no matter what shit it is . Suboxone great for depression first months afterwards i got insane rage from it . Ghb leaded to 24/7 dosing which was horrible . Kratom is another 2 hour measely high . I hate stuff that has short durations it makes it useless asf .