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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel is under attack

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arrall said:
If a Hamas terrorist took over an Israeli hospital and was launching rockets from it, would it be okay for Israel to bomb it, potentially killing hundreds of Israeli civilians?

If not, why?
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The premise of the question I disagree with.

They would not.

By all accounts its extremely evident that Israel cares more about their hostages in Hamas' captivity than Hamas cares about any Palestinian civilian's life.

Hamas would rather hold on to ~50(?) Israeli captives than save the lives of tens of thousands of their "fellow" citizens.

Hamas /=/ Palestine

Hamas wants Palestinian people to die more than Israel. Israel simply has much, much more competent capability to kill people......

Hamas would trade 1000 Palestinian lives for 1 Jew. That's their entire fucking life purpose.

Now you tell me, which evil is more evil?

You can't compare them. But a lot of people in this thread will only acknowledge one of them.
 
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IDF killed some their own hostages, speaking hebrew, waving white flag. I question they are really so considerate about it, they might have had some protocol about it, but yeah, I am not convinced of it.

Carpet bombing obviously is not particularly good way to rescue hostages either.
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
IDF killed some their own hostages, speaking hebrew, waving white flag. I question they are really so considerate about it, they might have had some protocol about it, but yeah, I am not convinced of it.

Carpet bombing obviously is not particularly good way to rescue hostages either.
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You do know feigning surrender/false surrender is a common tactic right? At least amongst terrorist types with no honor or dignity? One mistake by one IDF soldier does not reflect on the entire unit.

If Hamas cared about the suffering of their people they would have released all the hostages months ago. They wouldn't have hoarded resources or blocked evacuation routes, either.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Of course I don't.

I'll uno reverse this shit.... so you think Hamas bombing Israeli citizens for 30+ years is just something Israel has to deal with?

You think Hamas launching tens of thousands of rockets into Israel is justified?

Don't mention 1948, because then we can just turn this into a time travel thread in which the blame for human atrocities can go back infinitely.

Israel would never be a nation now if it wasn't handed to them by the western allies after WWII.

The blame game can just go on infinitely.
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Reverse uno what? I just asked you a question. You said Israel has the right to deal with it as they see fit. I took it to mean that anything they do is justified, and I wanted to clarify. I don't know what I've said to make you think I support Hamas launching rockets at Israel, but I don't think they have the right to deal with it as they see fit. I think they should open up the ports and let the Palestinians go wherever they want to instead of locking them in. You can't blame countries like Egypt for not wanting a flood of refugees. It's the world's problem.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Imagine if Mexico had some rogue president that went Hamas style and started launching incessant missiles into the US, then invaded Arizona and took 1500 hostages.

What do you think would happen?

Do you think US invading Mexico and killing radical cartel fucks would be called genocide?

better PR? or justified?
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I think carpet bombing Juarez, Guadalajara, Mexico City, and closing off Mexico's waterways, and pushing all the refugees down towards SA, would be genocide, yes.
 
mal3volent said:
The humanitarian suffering in Palestine is a result of Hamas and the people who put them in power.
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This sounds kind of like victim blaming me. Even if someone supported Hamas or whatever, it doesn't mean they supported the bombing. Israel is the one killing children and innocent's at this point. That's on Israel. The death toll of Palestinians has way surpassed however many people were killed in the initial bombing. Not that you can measure that kind of stuff in human lives, because it's all brutal.

Say Russia make a giant initiative against the UN and killed tf out of EU and US civilians for supporting Ukraine. I know it's a hypothetical, but would it then be all those innocent peoples fault that their governments did what they did?

The people aren't in charge at all. Who gives af about all this "owning" countries and states? It's a humanitarian crisis all around it's kinda gross to base the value of human lives down to who was there first or who's government bought the land?

Deigning to "own" the earth is stupid anyway. We all live here, we have to share. That might be utopian or whatever, but I don't care at all. It's that simple.

The US government has a terrible track record on humanitarian rights. We literally dropped nuclear warheads and vaporized millions of people. If they're on the side of supporting a colonial state demolishing Palestine, I'm against it. It really is that simple.
 
deficiT said:
Even if someone supported Hamas or whatever, it doesn't mean they supported the bombing.
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Have you seen the videos of the crowds chasing the vehicles coming back on Oct 7 with hostages? They were cheering. What about the public executions with hundreds of gleeful onlookers? It wasn't JUST Hamas fighters that participated on oct7 , it was civilians who crossed the border with them too. It was workers who had jobs in Israel and helped the terrorists plan the attack. It was, as we learned, UN employees joining in on the fun as well. That gem of an organization that provides all these totally accurate death counts.
 
mal3volent said:
Have you seen the videos of the crowds chasing the vehicles coming back on Oct 7 with hostages? They were cheering. What about the public executions with hundreds of gleeful onlookers? It wasn't JUST Hamas fighters that participated on oct7 , it was civilians who crossed the border with them too. It was workers who had jobs in Israel and helped the terrorists plan the attack. It was, as we learned, UN employees joining in on the fun as well. That gem of an organization that provides all these totally accurate death counts.
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This is true. I saw a video of a bunch of babies in the street cheering on HAMAS with a bottle of milk and an AK-47 above their heads.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Israel being more surgical in nature, less bombing, less civilian deaths
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This just isn't practical or feasible though. Mossad can be surgical in modern nations and take out high profile targets, but in a dense urban setting even regular military are sitting ducks from snipers and booby traps.

Also Israel is small. They can't afford to waste a lot of men like say Russia. If they did, other powers would overrun them.

What would surgical even look like? It's like Afghanistan and their cave network. Even the Americans had to invent a whole new weapon, thermobarics, to deal with that limiting terrain.. and that was not surgical by any means.

Has war ever been surgical?
 
mal3volent said:
Have you seen the videos of the crowds chasing the vehicles coming back on Oct 7 with hostages? They were cheering. What about the public executions with hundreds of gleeful onlookers? It wasn't JUST Hamas fighters that participated on oct7 , it was civilians who crossed the border with them too. It was workers who had jobs in Israel and helped the terrorists plan the attack. It was, as we learned, UN employees joining in on the fun as well. That gem of an organization that provides all these totally accurate death counts.
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Have you seen the treatment of Palestinians over the last several decades by Israel? No wonder there's some radicals. There's just as many Israelis cheering on the destruction of Palestinians. It's fucked up, I'm just not sure how anyone can be like "yeah these guys are the good guys" here.

I wish there could be peace. That's it. A lot to ask for but it's fucked up, and people are radicalized by propaganda and terror their entire lives and they get fucked up and do fucked up shit. Not really an excuse for anything, just an explanation.

I have not seen any executions, no. I honestly haven't delved into this topic beyond what's said on the TV, and to me it just rings as more fear and war mongering by a puppet state of the United States. The Palestinians should have their own state and government, and not be ruled over and mistreated by a separate entity... That's always been true and that hasn't changed.
 
deficiT said:
I have not seen any executions, no. I honestly haven't delved into this topic beyond what's said on the TV
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deficiT said:
The Palestinians should have their own state and government, and not be ruled over and mistreated by a separate entity
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Lol yeah. They had a government a few months ago remember?

If you want to know my opinions on this subject they are laid out extensively through this thread. No need in me rehashing everything again. I'll say though, if you want a balanced view on this subject you might try something other than al Jazeera.
 
mal3volent said:
Lol yeah. They had a government a few months ago remember?

If you want to know my opinions on this subject they are laid out extensively through this thread. No need in me rehashing everything again. I'll say though, if you want a balanced view on this subject you might try something other than al Jazeera.
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Didn't ask you to. I've seen. Just talking myself, you're not obligated to entertain any conversation with me, just stating how I felt about the comment. Not sure how a short article stating someone burnt themselves alive could come off differently, but noted.
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
IDF killed some their own hostages, speaking hebrew, waving white flag.
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Accidents happen. Realize that the IDF is primarily composed of 18-22 year olds who are reservists and have suddenly been thrust into the most intense close quarters combat of the modern era.

Wouldn’t you be a bit trigger happy in such a situation? Hesitation in combat leads to death.





The guy who set himself on fire undoubtedly wanted to emulate the self-immolation of the Buddhist monk during the war in Vietnam; except that man was a Vietnamese man doing so to protest a war in HIS nation. A man of peace who didn’t shout anything, just sat there and burned to death as a true protest of the conflict in his own nation between his own people (Vietnam being a civil war technically).

Hard not to see this 25 year old American as a very very sad product of the “reeeing” 20s…
 
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