Jan 6 Attack on the Capitol and the aftermath

[nepalnt21]

What was the purpose of breaking into the building?

tourorism

 

[Jabberwocky]

MAGA bros have to make up a fantasy that other people are brainwashed into hating Trump as a coping mechanism and to explain why they support him.

Their party is broken, so they have to come up with excuses as to why their leading candidate isn't a steaming pile of shit.

Meanwhile Democrats willingly admit they dislike Biden, because they aren't deluded by cult like thinking.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

You are completely brainwashed bud… hate to be the bearer of bad news…stop watching CNN and it should get better in time

I don't think I'm the one buying what I'm being fed by the news here
And for the hundredth time I don't watch any news

 

[nepalnt21]

that's lvg's go- to... he hasn't a single original thought, nor the capacity for critical analysis, and so ppl he disagrees with must also drink up the kool- aid.

it's really kinda sad...

 

[Jabberwocky]

droppers does it do

they have to set you up as an imaginary clay doll version of what they have been told liberal voters are like and what they believe, because it's the only way their world view seems logical

they literally construct a strawman right in front of you

 

[Las Veghost grower]

It’s the truth , I sure just like the vaccines, one day you guys will realize it, of course you’ll prolly never really admit it but I know you’ll eventually see what most people see, or I’m giving you to much credit

 

[JackARoe]

LOL there are people crapping their pants that were at Jan 6th that never got caught. But the right wants to release more video. I cannot even tell what kind of move that is. But it will lead to more arrests. And I saw comments that releasing video is making people nervous. I mean look at the outcome so far. Some stuff does not stand the test of time.

 

[Electrum1]

All of the videotapes of all depositions are gone,” said Rep. Barry Loudermilk, R-Ga., chairman of the House Administration oversight subcommittee

Vanished! House panel chairman says J6 videotapes of witness interviews missing

Rep. Barry Loudermilk says some J6 documents missing too, and came back from Biden White House heavily redacted.

justthenews.com

 

[alasdairm]

Judge rejects Trump immunity claim in federal 2020 election case

"WASHINGTON, Dec 1 (Reuters) - Donald Trump does not have immunity from criminal charges for actions he took as president, a U.S. judge ruled on Friday, rejecting his bid to toss out the case brought by Special Counsel Jack Smith accusing him of unlawfully trying to overturn his 2020 election loss.

U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan found no legal basis for concluding that presidents cannot face criminal charges once they are no longer in office."

the ruling itself is pretty - an excerpt:

"Whatever immunities a sitting President may enjoy, the United States has only one Chief Executive at a time, and that position does not confer a lifelong “get-out-of-jail-free” pass. Former Presidents enjoy no special conditions on their federal criminal liability. Defendant may be subject to federal investigation, indictment, prosecution, conviction, and punishment for any criminal acts undertaken while in office.

The Constitution’s text, structure, and history do not support that contention. No court—or any other branch of government—has ever accepted it. And this court will not so hold..."

the trump team tried to argue that the president is, essentially, above the law with which surely nobody, who respects the basic principles on which the constitution is built, would agree?

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Nevada GOP ‘fake electors’ indicted for falsely claiming Trump won state’s 2020 election

"A Nevada grand jury has indicted the six Republicans — including the chair of the Nevada Republican Party — who falsely pledged Nevada’s electoral votes to Donald Trump following the 2020 election despite President Joe Biden’s victory in the state.

Attorney General Aaron Ford, a Democrat, announced the indictments Wednesday of state party chair Michael McDonald, national committeeman Jim DeGraffenreid, Clark County Republican Party chair Jesse Law (who announced plans to run for state Assembly on Wednesday), state party vice chair Jim Hindle III, Shawn Meehan and Eileen Rice.

In a press release, the attorney general’s office said all six individuals had been indicted on two felony charges — offering a false instrument for filing and uttering a forged instrument by submitting fraudulent documents to state and federal officials. The charges carry penalties of category C and D felonies, respectively, with punishments up to a maximum of four and five years in prison and a minimum of one year in prison. A grand jury in the Eighth Judicial District Court in Clark County indicted the six Republicans." (my emphasis)

yet more republicans making a concerted effort to entirely disenfranchise voters in their state.

alasdair

 

[someguyontheinternet]

yet more republicans making a concerted effort to entirely disenfranchise voters in their state.

alasdair

Is anyone surprised? That's the only way they can win elections

 

[alasdairm]

i know people here who will just pooh pooh this kind of information - and will continue, without evidence, to claim that the democrats stole the election - but it's becoming clear that there were organized attempts by republicans to steal the election which, thankfully failed.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Wisconsin’s fake electors settle lawsuit, acknowledge Biden won in 2020

"The 10 Wisconsin Republicans who posed as electors for President Donald Trump in 2020 even though he had lost the election settled a lawsuit against them Wednesday, acknowledging their actions were part of an effort to overturn the election results." (my emphasis)

alasdair

 

[Electrum1]

Supreme Court will hear a case that could undo Capitol riot charge against hundreds, including Trump

The Supreme Court says it'll hear appeals that could upend hundreds of charges stemming from the Capitol riot, including against ex-President Donald Trump.

apnews.com

 

[alasdairm]

^ they're all antifa conspirators, so i am told. if this succeeds, the right will be mad!

alasdair

 

[tryptakid]

It's interesting reading this thread over the course of the past few years. The frustration that people have with those of an opposing viewpoint is very obvious, even as someone who was not involved in the conversation, reading from 1-2 years after points were discussed and posted.

One thing that jumped out to me was a few posts of self-awareness from @Las Veghost grower (there were others, just using these to highlight) :

This is generally a good idea, read both sides and find the truth, problem is most people already already have their mind made before hand or read multiple outlets from the same side, I think your better off staying away altogether from known propaganda media outlets and only ready the ones that sit in the middle, if everyone did that then in order to be a successful media outlet you would have to leave your biases at the door and just report the facts, if you want better journalism in the US then stop clicking on or watching shit from Washington post FOX CNN newsmax ect.

Hey I’m just as guilty as the next person when it comes to seeing someone go so far in one direction I take it equally as far or further in the other direction almost like making a point, but I like to think I can see most things for what they are

I specifically highlight these because I appreciate the self-reflection, especially because I find most of their/(your) expressed views to be ones I disagree with, and some of the rationale expressed to be biased:

It just makes no sense to me how anybody could call what happen a insurrection or even a attempt at a insurrection…it was a textbook protest turned riot

Calling something a textbook "..." is lazy homework, especially when questioning the veracity of the term insurrection.

I don't mean to pick on you, this is just an example of something I see quite a bit online, and it feeds into the very same type of Red Sox/Yankees type political discourse that online spaces have become - one with a bias towards binary absolutism, with very little capacity for nuance. In my experience, almost everything in the real world is nuanced.

I think part of why we're in this situation is that people shy away from having discussions with others outside of their comfort zone about politics (and religion), but the rules of polite conversation go out the window in online spaces. It also means that the same factor that Las Veghost was pointing to, has pushed us to a point where we literally cannot understand how someone with an opposing view holds those views, or how:

I do find it really interesting how the 2 sides see each others actions totally differently, I feel like I’m seeing it pretty clearly and so does the other side, but who is right, is anybody right ? Or are we all just running through the smoke so we can’t see what’s going on around us, it does seem like if your on the right you are almost instantly considered a bad guy, which should be a red flag, but what do I know

Which is one of the most insightful things I've seen someone post online in a while. I feel the same way, particularly when reading posts of people whose views I don't share, though I do find that when I talk with people in real world settings there's much more nuance and commonality that can be found. So - @Las Veghost grower - My apologies for picking on you, and I hope you (and imagine?) you can appreciate why. I think it's really fucking important that we challenge our own biases, and try to find ways to have conversations, see one another's viewpoints, and recognize how as Marshall McLuhan so sagely observed that the medium is the message.

Personally, I hope that 2024 brings us some alternative to this bullshit. I'm tired of the arguments, the outrage, and the lack of trust that is so pervasive in the U.S. In Adam Curtis's documentary, Hypernormalization, he explores how this sort of thing was/is common in Russia, and is designed to confuse the public to a point where nothing is real, and unified opposition is unable to manifest, maintaining the status quo while giving the illusion of choice.

 

[alasdairm]

^ i love the sentiment of your post but it's telling that you had to go back well over a year to quote these cases.

i used to quite enjoy las veghost grower's posts too but, more recently, the tune has changed. he's decided that he's right and others are wrong and that anybody who disagrees with him is a brainwashed idiot:

one day you will realize how brainwashed you are

But hey, 8+ years of the TV and internet beating it into your head it’s really no your fault

mentally I’ll people are far more likely to align with lefty ideologies

You are completely brainwashed bud

I mean really think about it….the tv has you so convinced

I’m never wrong

alasdair

 

[tryptakid]

^ i love the sentiment of your post but it's telling that you had to go back well over a year to quote these cases.

i used to quite enjoy las veghost grower's posts too but, more recently, the tune has changed. he's decided that he's right and others are wrong and that anybody who disagrees with him is a brainwashed idiot:













alasdair

To be honest - I only really read up until the time of those posts and that's when I started thinking about the different perspectives/cognitive dissonance that fuels confirmation bias, and how it leads to this place where people literally remember a completely different version of events despite having gone through them at the same time. I think that people are more receptive in person to the nuance of things, and there's a degree of social capital that makes people less likely to attack someone with a different perspective.

Interestingly, an article in the Atlantic I read this morning explores some of the ways in which people's mindsets have adopted the mindset that you're describing. There's an expectation that progressives are just as 'organized' in their efforts to combat conservatives which in my experience is very far from the truth. It's like the whole idea that ANTIFA is an organized network of violent radicals where it's honestly more of a philosophical mindset than anything, or like how progressives must support X/Y/Z thing or be all gung ho about Joe Biden. He's the lesser of two evils in my mind, and I'm glad he's doing things about student loans, but mostly I"m just glad he's not trying to actively foment racism and violence. If I had any legitimate alternative to Biden, I would vote for them (and frankly might vote for Cornel West).

I also notice this tendency to belittle opposing view-points when folks will make statements like "obviously you can see that...." or "you must believe..." or "it's clear that..." - which confirms to themselves that a disagreement with a stated viewpoint is an unwillingness to accept reality - except that the person saying it is endorsing that a statement is reality rather than what it actually is, their opinion. Doing this over and over and over again just pushes people further away from being able to stop and self-reflect.

 

[alasdairm]

more accusations (with audio) of trump and other gop operatives interfering with the election process: Detroit News: Trump recorded pressuring Michigan canvassers not to certify 2020 vote

"(CNN) — The Detroit News reviewed a recording of a call former President Donald Trump made to two Michigan county officials in 2020, urging them not to certify the election results from Detroit.

The call was previously known and reported by CNN – and condemned at the time by election experts and Michigan Democrats, who said it was a stunning attempt by a sitting president to pressure local officials to interfere with an election.
...
RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, who was also on the call told the officials, regarding the certification: “Do not sign it. … We will get you attorneys.”

Then, Trump added, “We’ll take care of that.”"

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

Do we all agree now that Jan6 was a setup by the Feds and not an insurrection?

Or are we still believing fantasy tales spun by propagandists?