Israel is under attack

[Jen X]

Canada has sent in a special forces unit to aid Isreal.
Russia is threatening to aide Palestine if the west interferes, which we are.
Just hope this doesn't cause a bigger war. But terrorists need to be stopped.
Sad world we live in

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

How do you say that Palestine is being used as a proxy to kill Jews but then say neither side is clearly right or wrong? I understand and agree that neither side has an absolute or divine "claim" to the land, but as you say it was legally given to them by Britain. They fought a war and established independence.

It seems to me that Israel is far from perfect but is still clearly in the right given all the circumstances.

You are right that doesn't mean the Palestinian people are wrong...but Hamas certainly is. I also don't know how you expect the US not to be involved at all. If we didn't have a strategic presence there, Iran would certainly become more tempted to intervene.

All parties are in the wrong. They all thing that they are right and are fighting a holy war and that "God is on their side". That includes Israel.

All our strategic presence is like;y to do is fuel this small conflict to a regional one, and possibly to the whole world due to "strategic agreements". The whole world is clearly very polarized already.

I lived in Cairo for about a year and had many Muslim friends. The devout ones told me that they were waiting for Iran to be attacked so that the final war could be started to rid the world from all infidels. I don't want to be alive when this takes place my friend.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Because understanding these facts would mean admitting that Hamas is a terrorist organization that launches rockets to cause terror as they are without the ability to hit military targets.

One can accept that Hamas is a terrorist organization without thinking the US should be involved.

 

[Jabberwocky]

also.... makes me wonder.... who is supplying Hamas with tens of thousands of rockets? They surely aren't being manufactured in Gaza.

Iran has been implicated by the CIA. Why would Iran support a self professed terrorist organization? Because Muslims hate Jews (?).

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

also.... makes me wonder.... who is supplying Hamas with tens of thousands of rockets? They surely aren't being manufactured in Gaza.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

The left winger anti seminites and their marxist buddies should all catch the next flight to gaza and go live with the palestines you all love.

in order to get killed arbitrarily? No thanks.

 

[Neuroprotection]

All parties are in the wrong. They all thing that they are right and are fighting a holy war and that "God is on their side". That includes Israel.

All our strategic presence is like;y to do is fuel this small conflict to a regional one, and possibly to the whole world due to "strategic agreements". The whole world is clearly very polarized already.

I lived in Cairo for about a year and had many Muslim friends. The devout ones told me that they were waiting for Iran to be attacked so that the final war could be started to rid the world from all infidels. I don't want to be alive when this takes place my friend.

Do you know if those devout Muslims had any affinity towards Iran? The reason I ask is because many Sunni fanatics, including a portion of the Muslim brotherhood actually perceive Iran as an infidel Power equal to, if not worse than Israel and the west.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Water pipes in a desert, who needs those? Definitely not the Palestinian civilians.

Blinding hatred of Jews making the lives of Palestinians even worse. Sad.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Do you know if those devout Muslims had any affinity towards Iran? The reason I ask is because many Sunni fanatics, including a portion of the Muslim brotherhood actually perceive Iran as an infidel Power equal to, if not worse than Israel and the wes.

I was living in Cairo (for a job in the early 1970's). I was also just learning about Islam, so I cannot reconcile many of the difference between sect beliefs. I wish I had paid more attention to be honest.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

just because there was a conflict in the past, doesn't mean the current conflict is the same.

Again, you can't just make statements and ignore the facts that contradict them.

Ah I see so you just draw lines where they make your point of view correct. Interesting

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Water pipes in a desert, who needs those? Definitely not the Palestinian civilians.

Blinding hatred of Jews making the lives of Palestinians even worse. Sad.

The water pipes they used were not supplying Palestinians but were old water pipes that supplied Israeli settlements during the occupation

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Hey can you try at least to understand the points people are making to you?

The only reason Hamas hasn't killed more people is because they are inferior to Israel militarily. That doesn't stop them from trying. So all those charts people like to hold up on tv interviews are a nice prop but they lack all context and a true sense of what is going on.

There is no real evidence that Hamas is using human shields in an intentional fashion, this is just repeating the propaganda that the IDF puts out. There is evidence that the IDF lies and fabricates evidence and uses that fabricated evidence to strike civilian targets. Why do they go after journalists and hospitals so much?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Hey can you try at least to understand the points people are making to you?

The only reason Hamas hasn't killed more people is because they are inferior to Israel militarily. That doesn't stop them from trying. So all those charts people like to hold up on tv interviews are a nice prop but they lack all context and a true sense of what is going on.

The points are bad and seem nearsighted at best

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

There is no real evidence that Hamas is using human shields in an intentional fashion, this is just repeating the propaganda that the IDF puts out. There is evidence that the IDF lies and fabricates evidence and uses that fabricated evidence to strike civilian targets. Why do they go after journalists and hospitals so much?

yeah, I get it.

It was pure coincidence that the tunnels and military command center were below that Hospital, right?

 

[Jabberwocky]

"One thing is obvious, Israel for decades, if it had wanted to perpetrate genocide against the Palestinians, it could have done that on any given day. It would have been trivial, they could kill everyone in Gaza tomorrow if they wanted to. They obviously haven't wanted that, they don't want to do that now.

If you reverse that balance of power and ask 'What would Hamas do?', 'What would jihadist organizations anywhere do?', they would kill all the Jews. And they have told us that ad nauseam. The founding charter of Hamas said that explicitly. They look forward to a time where Quranic prophecy would be realized, when the earth itself would cry out against the Jews. Where the rocks and the trees would say 'Oh Muslim, there's a Jew behind you, go kill him'.

The difference is intention. Intention is the software that everyone is running. Intention is the best predictor of what people will do if given the opportunity to do it."

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

i'm taking a position in an argument

amongst all nihilism, I have tremendous respect for people that are brave enough to have opinion, rejecting the "easy ways out", even if they would risk being wrong. I think we should not retreat to uncertainty and shrugging it off stating how difficult living in globalism is. For that reason, while this topic has not really led anywhere during the last 100 pages, I can not blame anyone attempting to change the course.

This is just something I have wanted to say for, well, last hundred pages, because there have been voices that I interpret to be consequence of despair following impossible-to-solve situations that are rooted in our will to make sense and control of our every-day life.

I am also baffled how everyone is stating they are grossed of human rights violations, while having completely different sides. Obviously lots of you have same values. So, how is it possible that for the last 100 pages there has been really no advancement at all?

I am no sure why I am saying this, but above all, I think, I am intrigued about human nature; how in the fuck is this position possible at all? For another reason, I think meta-conversation could be beneficial, because, there has been really no progress last 100 pages, so I guess my contribution is as good as on-topic. For third reason, I guess I am control freak and I would like to see reality where all this conversation will lead to something.

 

[mal3volent]

All parties are in the wrong. They all thing that they are right and are fighting a holy war and that "God is on their side". That includes Israel.

All our strategic presence is like;y to do is fuel this small conflict to a regional one, and possibly to the whole world due to "strategic agreements". The whole world is clearly very polarized already.

I lived in Cairo for about a year and had many Muslim friends. The devout ones told me that they were waiting for Iran to be attacked so that the final war could be started to rid the world from all infidels. I don't want to be alive when this takes place my friend.

I don't either. But I fail to see how capitulating to Hamas would help prevent that from happening. Or how the US can afford not to strategically position assets in the region.

Iran and other religious fascist states would like nothing more than for us to take a hands off approach.

There is no real evidence that Hamas is using human shields in an intentional fashion, this is just repeating the propaganda that the IDF puts out. There is evidence that the IDF lies and fabricates evidence and uses that fabricated evidence to strike civilian targets. Why do they go after journalists and hospitals so much?

You are absolutely beyond help.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

I don't either. But I fail to see how capitulating to Hamas would help prevent that from happening. Or how the US can afford not to strategically position assets in the region.

Iran and other religious fascist states would like nothing more than for us to take a hands off approach.

I see your point but I think Israel is strong enough to handle this on their own. It's really a tough decision and I don't envy Biden at all for having to be the one to make it.

 

[mal3volent]

So, how is it possible that for the last 100 pages there has been really no advancement at all?

Hard to make progress with individuals who initially claimed "oh no, of course we don't condone Hamas! We just want to protect all the innocent Palestinians!"

Now they are denying objective fact and spouting complete bullshit.

Here's how it always goes with these people:

"Of course we condemn Hamas, but Israel's response needs to be proportionate!"
"Well yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization but it's Israel's fault!"
"Hamas is no different than the IDF!"
"There is actually no evidence Hamas uses human shields...that is just propaganda!"

Very soon they'll be calling them freedom fighters and liberators.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

there has been really no advancement at all?

of course, I am open for anyone stating I have mistaken. It would be rather pleasant for me.