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Israel is under attack

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HumanityIsTheDevil said:
Off-topic, but i visited Kiev in 2017 when the conflict in Crimea was already going on but the rest of the world didn't yet give a damn. Met some people from the Azov regiment (which was called the Azov battalion at that point) and i can assure you that these guys are actual neo-nazis.

Doesn't mean Ukraine as a whole is some kind of nazi state, and there are neo-nazis fighting on the Russian side too. They are pretty common in former Soviet countries.
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Hm, fair enough. I wonder if it's statistically more or less prevalent than neo-Nazism in America.
 
HumanityIsTheDevil said:
I would wager that it is. The Soviet regime really messed up many of those places (the Holodomor in Ukraine is a good example of this) so some angry young people started seeing Hitler as the good guy after it fell apart. The former GDR also has a lot more people with far right views than West Germany.

Racism is generally a lot less frowned upon in Eastern Europe than it is in the west.
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Not sure where you live, but in my neck of rural Michigan there's plenty of Proud Boys etc., people that are pretty much neo-Nazis except in name.
 
pharmakos said:
Genuinely not all Muslims are like that.

Many of the Jews that survived through the events you allude to only survived thanks to peaceful Arabs that hid them from the violent ones.

en.m.wikipedia.org

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Scroll down to Arabs Shelter Jews in the Attack section
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Absolutely. That's why I'm adding the prefix "jihadist" or "radical" or "fundamentalist". Most muslims are not like Hamas at all. Most Muslims are like the majority of Palestinians- victims of a brutal totalising ideology that glorifies death. Normal people at the mercy of terrible ideas in the minds of ignorant psychopaths.

The problem is that the fundamentalist Muslims have a number of hard to refute methods for having their interpretation win the day and silencing the moderate majority. They can just point to the Quran and the life of Muhammad for starters, and even more effective is that they can use violence and theologically defend its use. Under their cosmology, they can be rewarded for its use. Killing infidels is a one way ticket to eternal paradise, and even if you kill some decent innocent Muslims, great- if they're god fearing believers, they'll be in paradise, too. Innocent infidels that get killed? Great- they'll go to hell which is a good thing too.

That's the thing with violence, it's incredibly effective at making people do or say things they don't agree with and even more effective at making people NOT say or do things. Islam will always have holy war, as sanctified by its prophet and sanctioned by the creator of the universe, as a means to "convince" people. That's how it spread from a small village in the middle east to Spain in 100 years. It wasn't missionaries spreading the word, it was armies putting infidels to the sword. This potential is always still there. By its very nature, Islam is always a threat.

"We love death as you love life". How do you fight that?

Christianity was like this also, for centuries until the Enlightenment somehow, against all odds, took hold and was able to both sow the seeds of doubt re: dogma as well as produce technologies that genuinely improved what were basically horrible lives for all, in the face of static centuries long misery. Islam needs a reformation, but as long as it can justify putting to death those who speak up against it (and this justification is written indelibly in their holy book), it's going to remain mired in dark ages morality and the world around it will suffer.
 
swilow said:
Absolutely. That's why I'm adding the prefix "jihadist" or "radical" or "fundamentalist". Most muslims are not like Hamas at all. Most Muslims are like the majority of Palestinians- victims of a brutal totalising ideology that glorifies death. Normal people at the mercy of terrible ideas in the minds of ignorant psychopaths.

The problem is that the fundamentalist Muslims have a number of hard to refute methods for having their interpretation win the day and silencing the moderate majority. They can just point to the Quran and the life of Muhammad for starters, and even more effective is that they can use violence and theologically defend its use. Under their cosmology, they can be rewarded for its use. Killing infidels is a one way ticket to eternal paradise, and even if you kill some decent innocent Muslims, great- if they're god fearing believers, they'll be in paradise, too. Innocent infidels that get killed? Great- they'll go to hell which is a good thing too.

That's the thing with violence, it's incredibly effective at making people do or say things they don't agree with and even more effective at making people NOT say or do things. Islam will always have holy war, as sanctified by its prophet and sanctioned by the creator of the universe, as a means to "convince" people. That's how it spread from a small village in the middle east to Spain in 100 years. It wasn't missionaries spreading the word, it was armies putting infidels to the sword. This potential is always still there. By its very nature, Islam is always a threat.

"We love death as you love life". How do you fight that?

Christianity was like this also, for centuries until the Enlightenment somehow, against all odds, took hold and was able to both sow the seeds of doubt re: dogma as well as produce technologies that genuinely improved what were basically horrible lives for all, in the face of static centuries long misery. Islam needs a reformation, but as long as it can justify putting to death those who speak up against it (and this justification is written indelibly in their holy book), it's going to remain mired in dark ages morality and the world around it will suffer.
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Eh, Christianity and Islam both have fundamentalists that confuse the history parts with the commandment parts. The bits about killing unbelievers are taken out of context, by Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

Here's a good resource that explains how those verses are taken out of context, pretty quick read:

medium.com

Does the Quran Really Say to Kill the Disbelievers?

Islam is perhaps the most heavily scrutinized religion in the Western world. Largely owing to the fact it arrived in the West almost a…
medium.com medium.com

And another:

Why does the Quran say that infidels should be killed?

www.alislam.org
 
pharmakos said:
Eh, Christianity and Islam both have fundamentalists that confuse the history parts with the commandment parts. The bits about killing unbelievers are taken out of context, by Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

Here's a good resource that explains how those verses are taken out of context, pretty quick read:

medium.com

Does the Quran Really Say to Kill the Disbelievers?

Islam is perhaps the most heavily scrutinized religion in the Western world. Largely owing to the fact it arrived in the West almost a…
medium.com medium.com

And another:

Why does the Quran say that infidels should be killed?

www.alislam.org
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Yeah those articles are clearly unbiased and objective :rofl:
 
No different than Christian apologists trying to explain how actually the Bible doesn't condone slavery or rape if you read it in its full context.
 
schizopath said:
Sadly every magazine is more or less biased and subjective. Just read the news about Russia and carefully put notice on which words they use. Sometimes internet sites are more objective and unbiased than any magazine you can find from store.
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I have no issue with independent publications posting slanted content, but they shouldn't be presented as "resources" that will "explain" something as if it is objectively true.
 
mal3volent said:
what have I said that is dumb or untrue ?
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If you felt it was ok to make several comments it's clear me trying to point out where you have gone wrong is of no value.

Honestly I regard 98% of this board as fucking idiots, you I did hold way above the general crowd despite me taking the piss out of you at times.
I really did think for years just like I do with @Snafu in the Void you were way above the idiots who take sides in issues they know nothing about & you were smart but you have brought shame upon yourself.
 
mal3volent said:
I have no issue with independent publications posting slanted content, but they shouldn't be presented as "resources" that will "explain" something as if it is objectively true.
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Well, tell me, do you think any magazine (which all happen to be more or less jewish owned) can be taken as objectively true regarding this conflict?
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
If you felt it was ok to make several comments it's clear me trying to point out where you have gone wrong is of no value.

Honestly I regard 98% of this board as fucking idiots, you I did hold way above the general crowd despite me taking the piss out of you at times.
I really did think for years just like I do with @Snafu in the Void you were way above the idiots who take sides in issues they know nothing about & you were smart but you have brought shame upon yourself.
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If you want to just go on insulting me without actually providing any evidence, an argument, or even a basic explanation as to what the fuck you're talking about... I think that says more about you than me.

I agree with you that all lives are equal and have value, with few exceptions.

Whose lives don't have value, in my opinion?

People who openly and proudly admit that they "love death more than life". Who intentionally burn babies in their cribs, rape women, and torture parents in front of their children. I'm referring to Hamas here.
 
mal3volent said:
If you want to just go on insulting me without actually providing any evidence, an argument, or even a basic explanation as to what the fuck you're talking about... I think that says more about you than me.
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Your posts say it all.

We are done, you go your way & I will go mine, see you further down the road.
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
Just saying like..........

THIS 80 odd year old LADY was taken from her home at Ak-47 point, see what she does at the end to her Hamas guard folks <3 (Y)

Yeah, I know 90% of you won't comment on this video as you are fucking dumb & blind to THE DAMN TRUTH!!!!

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You know what rhymes with shake n bake? Bread and circus ;)
 
schizopath said:
Well, tell me, do you think any magazine (which all happen to be more or less jewish owned) can be taken as objectively true regarding this conflict?
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I think any source can be read and evaluated but it is up to you to know what implicit biases exist. You have to look at where they get their own information to produce that article and ask are they trying to promote an agenda or are they attempting to report objective truth.

You don't believe everything the IDF or US military says, nor should you. You wouldn't believe everything the Daily Wire puts out, nor should you.

No different in this case with two Muslim authors attempting to sanitize Islamic scripture.
 
schizopath said:
Well, tell me, do you think any magazine (which all happen to be more or less jewish owned) can be taken as objectively true regarding this conflict?
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I don't think being Jewish owned matters a whole lot, there are plenty of antizionist Jews who are speaking out against the state of Israel. That's one reason I say we can't conflate the two, the state of Israel is a state not a religion
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
If you felt it was ok to make several comments it's clear me trying to point out where you have gone wrong is of no value.

Honestly I regard 98% of this board as fucking idiots, you I did hold way above the general crowd despite me taking the piss out of you at times.
I really did think for years just like I do with @Snafu in the Void you were way above the idiots who take sides in issues they know nothing about & you were smart but you have brought shame upon yourself.
Click to expand...
Your insults stop now or you can go play somewhere else for a couple of days.
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
Just saying like..........

THIS 80 odd year old LADY was taken from her home at Ak-47 point, see what she does at the end to her Hamas guard folks <3 (Y)

Yeah, I know 90% of you won't comment on this video as you are fucking dumb & blind to THE DAMN TRUTH!!!!

Click to expand...


So I'm supposed to respect Hamas for releasing two old ladies who they took hostage?

Are you seriously that naive? Why do you think they made sure to have cameras there and give them tea? It is propaganda, which publications like The Times are all too eager to gobble up and disseminate. "Hamas has been attempting to restore goodwill". :rofl: For fucks sake.
 
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