@AlsoTapered Lots of good information there. Sounds like a huge batch of underdosed fake diaz was intercepted on it's way to the market.
One thing I did notice is that you've said that 1mg of etizolam is ten times as potent as 10mg of diazepam. That's not correct - 1mg of etizolam is generally stated to be roughly equivalent to 10mg of diazepam. 1mg of etizolam would be 10 times more potent than 1mg of diazepam.
A separate issue that may account for the perceptions of etizolam being more potent, is that it is often stated to be 6 times more effective against anxiety symptoms compared to diazepam, when comparing 1mg of etizolam to 10mg of diazepam. I have to agree with this, even though diazepam is seen as the gold standard by many users, probably because it's what they are used to, and also I believe its the most commonly prescribed benzo in the UK, and obviously any script that comes straight from the pharmacy can usually be relied on to be active, accurately dosed, and genuine.
You've also said there that the plateau dose of etizolam is 1mg, which is definitely not correct. Was that a typo as you were stating the plateau as 4mg earlier?
Not meaning to be pedantic, but you probably know that people on the spectrum are generally good at spotting errors and pointing them out. I'm not sure if that particular trait is a strength or a weakness lol.
Sorry, my mistake 1-mg etizolam = 10mg diazepam.
But I remain convinced that it's these more potent benzos that are disproportionally resulting in ODs. Evidently Manchester is a major centre of production and distribution.
I think people are being led to believe that 'street Valium' = etizolam when clearly it is not.
But I have to say that the anecdotes just do not match up with the known properties. My boss originally bought etizolam tablets from India but when we got a guy with a press, buying the etizolam powder and pilling them up was cheaper. But not being a chemist he send me 100mg and asked 'is this etizolam' (as if I've got GC-MS & NMR at home... I don't know WHAT he was thinking). Anyway, I just took the whole 100mg. Then I walked to the bus, went to town, posted a letter, paid a bill, met a friend and went for coffee with her and came home.
Now, according to the anecdotes, I SHOULD have been unconsious BUT according to the documentation it should plateau at around 10mg diazepam equivalent BUT due to the huge dose, last a long time. So usually they last 4 hours, with 100mg I guess I felt it for about 36 hours (which if you calculate based on the T½ being 2.5 hours is about right.
We were the largest UK-based etizolam supplier (by a couple of orders of magnitude) for 2 years.
I have to admit that I couldn't work out who would buy them. OK they were cheaper than pyrazolam or diclazepam but an 0.5mg pyrazolam is just as effective an anxiolytic and lasts for 6 hours... and those 2mg diclazepam were VERY potent. Not many people ever took more than one 2mg tablet at a time and the duration was insane due to the active metabolites. You could take them once a day.
I think I told you i designed diclazepam to be the 'methadone' of benzos so dependent users could be directed to supervised consumption (like methadone).
I still say clobazam is the safest benzodiazepine anxiolytic. The QSAR is quite interesting. A '2 halogen doesn't increase potency BUT the triazolo derivatives ARE much more potent. But you might just end up with a more expensive drug that still has a plateau... but at 2 rather than 20mg [BID]. Some German researchers produced the 7-nitro homologue but the only remarks after human trials were 'as effective as clobazam but more sedating. So MAYBE if you make the triazolo derivative of that homologue, you get something reasonably powerful... but it's still a nitrobenzodiazepine and it doesn't seem to matter how many times I post the references to hepatic toxicity, people just won't believe it...
I suspect they just don't want it to be true. Someone using loads of clonazepam doesn't want to know it's liable to destroy their liver at high doses.
OT I found a modern secobarbital (Seconal) synthesis from an Indian maker. I'm 100% certain they would happily sell the (unwatched and legal) immediate precursor.
*Snip* sorry no synthesis allowed - axe maniac x
Synthesis about half way down. Well, the compound on the left (diethyl 2-allyl-2-(pentan-2-yl)malonate would be a PAIN to make BUT if you can simply BUY it, Seconal synthesis becomes trivial.
I'm hearing that the Mexican mafia are now producing nitazenes as well as flunitrazolam... but one of the few things more dependence-forming than benzos are barbs. Since barbs appeared at the start of the 20th century, researchers found that the asymmetric ones were more potent, those with an alkene were even more potent (e.g. Seconal) and those with an alkene with a -Br on the alpha carbon of the alkene more potent still. I've also seen several with an alkynyl moiety, The latter have fast onset and short duration....
So the question is - just what is the MOST potent barb.
Sigmodal looks like a good candidate. Only developed in the 1950s right at the very end of the research into barbiturates and still in use in the 1960s. In effect, it's Seconal with that -Br on the alpha carbon of the alkene. So... why use it if it's more or less identical so Seconal? Safer, stronger and/or patentable are the only 3 things I can think of.
