EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

[BadBoy377]

With Benzos I send a pill from *every* strip to Wedinos, even if it's from the same source. It's a bit of a hassle, but better safe than sorry considering how many are faked. And you can send more than one sample in the same envelope provided each is attached to a separate form and has a separate code

@Forever Changes have you ever had variations in batches doing this with different strips? Like one's been off?

 

[Forever Changes]

@Forever Changes have you ever had variations in batches doing this with different strips? Like one's been off?

no, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen

 

[axe battler]

@Forever Changes have you ever had variations in batches doing this with different strips? Like one's been off?

With fakes there could totally be a variation in strength. I found this with bensedin diazepam. Clandestine pills aren't mixed as well as proper pharmaceuticals.
Also with fakes, as they're running out of one RC benzo, they may also be variations in strips when they change the active ingredient, as they'll be pressed first, then packaged. That would be a lot less likely though, but I'm sure it happens.

 

[pharaoh]

Got some "street valium" on my trip to Glasgow just for the sake of it, just to test it really. White pills, no logo - plain on the front and a score across the back. Curious to see what they will contain, if anything. There are literally guys walking around central station asking if you need anything. Got some brown as I was after some but I was merely curious about what kinda of ta let's are going around. It's surprising to not even see the pretense of a logo. I get bensedin from a reliable source and know that I am getting diazepam (got bromaz on one occasion but they made it right - was just a bad batch). These look like they could just be paracetamol that have been bagged up but a street fellow was begging me for a couple when he saw me getting them so who knows? The guy had pills, brown, white (crack is becoming big in Glasgow now. Always thought it was odd that it ever really took off there before even though its everywhere in towns and cities in England). Anyway, assuming that it isn't bunk or paracetamol, my guess would be etiz or one of the "flu/flub" benzos. It just seemed strange to see no marking, even though the guy had brown and white. The again, he's just given what he's given and sells accordingly. The press even has it that some of these pills have contained fentanyl but that seems far-fetched to me. Anyway, off to wedinos they go.

 

[elgoucho9]

Got some "street valium" on my trip to Glasgow just for the sake of it, just to test it really. White pills, no logo - plain on the front and a score across the back. Curious to see what they will contain, if anything. There are literally guys walking around central station asking if you need anything. Got some brown as I was after some but I was merely curious about what kinda of ta let's are going around. It's surprising to not even see the pretense of a logo. I get bensedin from a reliable source and know that I am getting diazepam (got bromaz on one occasion but they made it right - was just a bad batch). These look like they could just be paracetamol that have been bagged up but a street fellow was begging me for a couple when he saw me getting them so who knows? The guy had pills, brown, white (crack is becoming big in Glasgow now. Always thought it was odd that it ever really took off there before even though its everywhere in towns and cities in England). Anyway, assuming that it isn't bunk or paracetamol, my guess would be etiz or one of the "flu/flub" benzos. It just seemed strange to see no marking, even though the guy had brown and white. The again, he's just given what he's given and sells accordingly. The press even has it that some of these pills have contained fentanyl but that seems far-fetched to me. Anyway, off to wedinos they go.

Interesting to hear your results bro. I've personally had pills that look similar and they had almost no effect on me. Friends who were willing to take 10+ at once reported they were active but who knows.

Even with those street sellers in Central Station you should still be able to score martin dows/bensedins these days.

And I've noticed the same with the w. It's taken over all cities now crack epidemic in the UK I'd go as far as to say. The crime rate has to be through the roof. Someone I know even robbed the sound old Jamaican fella I used to buy w and b from at knife point the other day over £80 worth of stuff. All the rock is making things wild west out there. Got to keep your wits about you when scoring.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Where I am, it all appears to be etizolam. So the 2 'blues' you bought that you imagined would control anxiety for 24 hours actually last for 4 hours. I am NOT pleased. Obviously I don't buy them, but since only 1 person seems to be selling them, I guess the options are limited.

On the plus side, the guy is a busker in the middle of town under a stack of CCTV coverage... so at least they can prosecute the c*nt who murdered you.

 

[elgoucho9]

Where I am, it all appears to be etizolam. So the 2 'blues' you bought that you imagined would control anxiety for 24 hours actually last for 4 hours. I am NOT pleased. Obviously I don't buy them, but since only 1 person seems to be selling them, I guess the options are limited.

On the plus side, the guy is a busker in the middle of town under a stack of CCTV coverage... so at least they can prosecute the c*nt who murdered you.

I have a theory they stopped putting Etizolam in the fakes because it was causing too many overdoses with poly drug users. Learning from their mistake they selected Bromazolam next as its not quite as potent, yet feels closer to legitimate Diazepam.

 

[pharaoh]

Interesting to hear your results bro. I've personally had pills that look similar and they had almost no effect on me. Friends who were willing to take 10+ at once reported they were active but who knows.

Even with those street sellers in Central Station you should still be able to score martin dows/bensedins these days.

And I've noticed the same with the w. It's taken over all cities now crack epidemic in the UK I'd go as far as to say. The crime rate has to be through the roof. Someone I know even robbed the sound old Jamaican fella I used to buy w and b from at knife point the other day over £80 worth of stuff. All the rock is making things wild west out there. Got to keep your wits about you when scoring.

I've been all over England and most hardcore junkies I've known have used both w & b. Dealers generally always have both in my experience and it makes sense as using both is a hell of a habit - crack users are a goldmine to your average runner and whoever they are working for as a person can spend their dole money in a few hours just on the white. Heroin on the other hand is more "sensible"/less chaotic as a habit given that an addict generally knows how much they need to get them through and the drug lasts a good few hours. Whoever decided to start selling w&b together had a good mind for business. But as I say, I'd never really seen rock in Scotland but it seems to have taken off in the last 2 years or so. Dunno why it never took on in the same way in Glasgow as say Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham or London (or any town really) as powder coke has always been around. It was always separated from the "junkie" drugs though. But people have started washing it up into rock and it will no doubt be disastrous. I reckon it might have something to do with the abundance of coke in recent years due to the big Irish gangsters working closely with the big guys in Glasgow. Some enterprising dealers have finally got Scots into the rock, God help us.

Also curiosity got the better of me and I tasted a tablet - sugary and melty, not that this could tell us anything. Will report back with the wedinos results. As I said, I was merely curious as to what some average "street valium" might be. I remember actually using it years back when I lived in a rough town not far from Glasgow. There were blues that had quire a reputation and there were rumours of them containing rohypnol due to how people behaved on them. Turns out they contained etizolam not long after the ban on research chems and whoever was pressing them probably didn't know or care that 1mg is roughly equivalent to 10 mg of diazepam. That plus the tendency of street folk to eat a bag of twenty "valium tablets" in one setting goes some way to explaining why they had such a mad rep. But as far as I can see, most street valium seems to contain etizolam or flu/flub. The dosage could be anyone's guess. Eating 20 of those bad boys on top of your daily methadone script and smoking or shooting some brown explains why so many poor bastards are going over. Not to mention adding a few cans of strong lager/other booze popular with the downtrodden into the mix.

Also I hadn't been to the city for a while and was surprised at how open the market was. People walk around offering bits to the beggars - it is pretty much out in the open and it didn't used to be like that (I got nicked buying two bags of brown just near Argyle Street by two undercovers about 10 years ago). Also there were empty packets from works lying around, used spoons etc all on the pavement. They need shooting galleries/safe spaces and decriminalisation which I believe the Scottish government was trying before backlash, likely from Westminster. Tbf you see the same thing in all cities in the. British Isles pretty much but it is shocking when you see how out of control it has gotten.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I have a theory they stopped putting Etizolam in the fakes because it was causing too many overdoses with poly drug users. Learning from their mistake they selected Bromazolam next as its not quite as potent, yet feels closer to legitimate Diazepam.

You cannot OD on etizolam - the dose/response curve plateaus above 4mg. Which equates to around 10mg of diazepam.

The media once again gets it WRONG.

 

[pharaoh]

@Forever Changes have you ever had variations in batches doing this with different strips? Like one's been off?

Closest I've seen to this was a vendor sending out some knock-off Bensedin which contained bromazolam. Whoever makes the mass-produced ones changed the design of the strips and so some fakes were made which looked a bit like the strips before the design had changed. The fakes seemed to get into the supply of trusted vendors and a lot of people naturally complained. Whether the dodgy strips were made by the same company is anyone's guess but I can't see why they would do it as they had a good reputation as a brand. Maybe they had a lull in production and some other manufacturers did some copied to fill the market, selling to the vendors to keep up the supply of that brand. Who knows. I've seen Kern Prodes come up with something other than diazepam too and they looked as if they came from the usual source. Maybe that was a case of them running out of diazepam and putting something else in the press to keep things going. Apparently the NHS has a shortage of oxazepam which is used for alcohol w/ds which just goes to show that any supply chain can be interrupted (that one makes me laugh though - I bet that the NHS could easily source oxaz if they spoke to traffickers on the less legal end of the spectrum)

 

[AlsoTapered]

The benzodiazepine used of alcohol detoxification varies between NHS trusts. Around here they use Librium (chlorodiazepoxide).

Oxazepam is actually made by many large concerns BUT the NHS tends to do a deal with just one supplier. So if that one supplier has an issue, historically the NHS would simply go to the market. But not now. Legally they are required to stick with a supplier and be damned if their is a supply issue.

Items on the WHO list of 'essential drugs' are exempt from this rule, but oxazepam isn't in their - diazepam IS.

So it's purely down to the registrar to decide if every patient in the hospital is simply swapped to diazepam. I presume many won't because the reason oxazepam (the weak, useless cr*p) is used is that it doesn't undergo metabolism by the liver. But then neither does lorazepam (which is commonly used n ICUs) but lorazepam COSTS MORE.

Sad, isn't it.

BTW pyrazolam is excreted unchanged so it's also safe in patients with hepatic impairment but it hasn't got a MA in the UK (yet).

 

[elgoucho9]

You cannot OD on etizolam - the dose/response curve plateaus above 4mg. Which equates to around 10mg of diazepam.

The media once again gets it WRONG.

Like I said overdoses in poly drug users. People were taking them with heroin and dying in numbers.

I've been all over England and most hardcore junkies I've known have used both w & b. Dealers generally always have both in my experience and it makes sense as using both is a hell of a habit - crack users are a goldmine to your average runner and whoever they are working for as a person can spend their dole money in a few hours just on the white. Heroin on the other hand is more "sensible"/less chaotic as a habit given that an addict generally knows how much they need to get them through and the drug lasts a good few hours. Whoever decided to start selling w&b together had a good mind for business. But as I say, I'd never really seen rock in Scotland but it seems to have taken off in the last 2 years or so. Dunno why it never took on in the same way in Glasgow as say Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham or London (or any town really) as powder coke has always been around. It was always separated from the "junkie" drugs though. But people have started washing it up into rock and it will no doubt be disastrous. I reckon it might have something to do with the abundance of coke in recent years due to the big Irish gangsters working closely with the big guys in Glasgow. Some enterprising dealers have finally got Scots into the rock, God help us.

Also curiosity got the better of me and I tasted a tablet - sugary and melty, not that this could tell us anything. Will report back with the wedinos results. As I said, I was merely curious as to what some average "street valium" might be. I remember actually using it years back when I lived in a rough town not far from Glasgow. There were blues that had quire a reputation and there were rumours of them containing rohypnol due to how people behaved on them. Turns out they contained etizolam not long after the ban on research chems and whoever was pressing them probably didn't know or care that 1mg is roughly equivalent to 10 mg of diazepam. That plus the tendency of street folk to eat a bag of twenty "valium tablets" in one setting goes some way to explaining why they had such a mad rep. But as far as I can see, most street valium seems to contain etizolam or flu/flub. The dosage could be anyone's guess. Eating 20 of those bad boys on top of your daily methadone script and smoking or shooting some brown explains why so many poor bastards are going over. Not to mention adding a few cans of strong lager/other booze popular with the downtrodden into the mix.

Also I hadn't been to the city for a while and was surprised at how open the market was. People walk around offering bits to the beggars - it is pretty much out in the open and it didn't used to be like that (I got nicked buying two bags of brown just near Argyle Street by two undercovers about 10 years ago). Also there were empty packets from works lying around, used spoons etc all on the pavement. They need shooting galleries/safe spaces and decriminalisation which I believe the Scottish government was trying before backlash, likely from Westminster. Tbf you see the same thing in all cities in the. British Isles pretty much but it is shocking when you see how out of control it has gotten.

Can't help but agree with you here on all fronts. I think since the purity of coke in general got better say post 2015, more people started smoking it, now loads of dealers selling "pre made".

Sounds like those white valium tasted identical to the ones I had. Fuck knows what they are but they don't seem to even be active without eating 10+ of them. Then probably wind up in some sort of massive fuck up. Interested to see your wedinos results.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Like I said overdoses in poly drug users. People were taking them with heroin and dying in numbers.

I STILL don't believe etizolam is the villain of the peace. That plateau is VERY low. Saying it's 'ten times stronger' is a disingenuous statement which I would put down to ignorance rather than malice.

Genuine diazepam would pose more of a hazard and some of the newer RC triazolobenzodiazepines are MUCH more sedating and hypnotic.

All that said, just MAYBE their is some odd, as yet undiscovered interaction specific to etizolam. But i believe it's simply because etizolam isn't prescribed in the UK, So even the so-called experts haven't bothered to do any real reasearch.

BTW Etizolam is a [P] medication in India and indeed in many developing nations specifically because it's overdose and dependence liability are so much lower than other benzodiazepines.

I will E-mail Michael Linnell. He usually knows what HR agencies do and don't know.

<EDIT> Of course, who knows what IV etizolam does </edit>

 

[pharaoh]

The benzodiazepine used of alcohol detoxification varies between NHS trusts. Around here they use Librium (chlorodiazepoxide).

Oxazepam is actually made by many large concerns BUT the NHS tends to do a deal with just one supplier. So if that one supplier has an issue, historically the NHS would simply go to the market. But not now. Legally they are required to stick with a supplier and be damned if their is a supply issue.

Items on the WHO list of 'essential drugs' are exempt from this rule, but oxazepam isn't in their - diazepam IS.

So it's purely down to the registrar to decide if every patient in the hospital is simply swapped to diazepam. I presume many won't because the reason oxazepam (the weak, useless cr*p) is used is that it doesn't undergo metabolism by the liver. Bu then neither does lorazepam (which is commonly used n ICUS) but lorazepam COSTS MORE.

Sad, isn't it.

BTW pyrazolam is excreted unchanged so it's also safe in patients with hepatic impairment but it hasn't got a MA in the UK (yet).

Interesting. I've done detox in London and om southwest Scotland, many years ago. Both times I was given librium. My assumption was that there was a reason of clinical efficacy behind this being used rather than diazepam but I also had a sneaking suspicious that they wanted to use benzos with little recreational value. Don't know anything about oxazepam other than that it seems to be used more commonly now and some poor bastard I know is in the deep end of alcohol dependency and has had it prescribed (not sure about the specifics, as in in-patient or out-patient but I know that it's rare to get benzos from a doctor outside of a detox setting, home or in a hospital - once a doctor gave me a strip of 10mg valium after I got an appointment from calling 111 saying I thought I was gonna have a seizure, any doctor I've told since cannae believe he did that). Anyway I heard that oxaz is in short supply. Meanwhile, the streets are flooded with all kinds of benzos and poor souls are eating whole bags of them and suffocating to death due to the unknown dosages and lethal combos. Things are very, very wrong with drugs, drug treatment and all the rest of it. Sorry to rant but an addiction worker I dealt with a while back is married to a man who runs his own highly profitable business manufacturing and selling high proof, high quality alcohol. One of the woman's jobs is looking after a couple of my neighbours of mine who are both chronic alcoholics. Not sure what she does for them - she brings the shopping and I'm sure does whatever else these nurse/supper worker types are meant to do. Meanwhile, she and her husband go out for weekend jollies on their very expensive boat, paid for by the manufacture and sale of one of the most dangerous drugs known to man. Again, sorry to rant but the whole thing just seems off and also indicative of the kind of ignorance that causes society so many issues when it comes to drugs (and drunk, although I dislike making that distinction).

 

[elgoucho9]

@AlsoTapered

How do you know how much etizolam they put in the tablets though? Or anything about what's happened there, we simply don't have all the information available to us.

When the majority of fake valium in Scotland were etizolam, there was a spate of deaths in Glasgow area within a couple of weeks.

It was the tablets that were linked to the cases. Potentially the people making the tablets overdosed them and you have street junkies eating 10+ after shooting H. That is the reality of the scenario we are looking at.

Look at those white things that are about now. Almost inactive. So whoever makes the fakes obviously started putting alot less of the active ingredients in since then, scared themselves off it looks like to me.

I've personally overdosed myself with powder etizolam before. Dosed it 2.5mg per ml in PG solution. Stupidly took 2ml twice in a day. Next thing I woke up the whole house was smashed to bits and the bottle was gone. Blackout central. I appreciate what your saying in the correct hands it may be less dangerous than some other options. However in the wrong hands or worse still in unknown doses decided by pure criminals who don't even take drugs themselves being pressed into uneven pills then consumed with heroin by largely uneducated users I could definitely see how it could become fatal.

 

[pharaoh]

I STILL don't believe etizolam is the villain of the peace. That plateau is VERY low. Saying it's 'ten times stronger' is a disingenuous statement which I would put down to ignorance rather than malice.

Genuine diazepam would pose more of a hazard and some of the newer RC triazolobenzodiazepines are MUCH more sedating and hypnotic.

All that said, just MAYBE their is some odd, as yet undiscovered interaction specific to etizolam. But i believe it's simply because etizolam isn't prescribed in the UK, So even the so-called experts haven't bothered to do any real reasearch.

BTW Etizolam is a [P] medication in India and indeed in many developing nations specifically because it's overdose and dependence liability are so much lower than other benzodiazepines.

I will E-mail Michael Linnell. He usually knows what HR agencies do and don't know.

Tbh I think that the scaremongering came from how these pills were taken in the context of polydrug use amongst problematic users. As I said, a few years back not long after the research chemical ban came in, there was a lot of buzz in Scottish towns and cities about "street valium". If you Google "ntz 1.0" tablets you'll probably see some discussions referring to the pills I mentioned. There were all kinds of rumours about what was in them as they had a reputation of having people wake up in ditches or police cells with no memory of the prior night. Some people speculated that they contained rohypnol. Of course they didn't, nor were they left over pills from the former USSR (pick your story) - they contained etizolam, and this was an example of the drug being used as a street drug rather than being sought after by responsible drug users who paid attention to dosage etc. They were pressed in factories and God knows how much of the active ingredient ended up in each pill. As you know, etizolam is highly potent. It is not a bad drug on its own but the culture of use, by which I mean buying 20 for a tenner and eating them all in one go is a disaster. Was them down with a Super Tennant or 4 after your morning methadone, maybe smoke a bag of brown too. Examples like that are what led to the tabloids having a field day. When it was legal, I used to use the 1mg pellets and found them to be perfectly decent. But people were buying up kilos upon kilos of the powder and it is still being pressed into tablets today, with plenty of fresh sources available. Some Scottish firm who has a warehouse full of pill presses and a cheap supply of etizolam is gonna make a killing pressing "blues" and selling them to punters around Scotland. Plenty of actual diazepam is out there of course buy if you want to guarantee that you're getting what you pay for, you can't rely on the street supply chain. Your average addict on the street will buy a bag of pills, eat them all and potentially die after a dodgy mix and all that. For the papers, it is another death linked to the dreaded "street valium", most of which has been found to contain etizolam over the years. The conclusion from the ignorant media? Etizolam is evil and is killing people like wildfire.

Long story short: the problem is to do with problematic drug use and a lack of any kind of genuine and useful support to those who are in terrible situations.

 

[pharaoh]

@AlsoTapered

How do you know how much etizolam they put in the tablets though? Or anything about what's happened there, we simply don't have all the information available to us.

When the majority of fake valium in Scotland were etizolam, there was a spate of deaths in Glasgow area within a couple of weeks.

It was the tablets that were linked to the cases. Potentially the people making the tablets overdosed them and you have street junkies eating 10+ after shooting H. That is the reality of the scenario we are looking at.

Look at those white things that are about now. Almost inactive. So whoever makes the fakes obviously started putting alot less of the active ingredients in since then, scared themselves off it looks like to me.

I've personally overdosed myself with powder etizolam before. Dosed it 2.5mg per ml in PG solution. Stupidly took 2ml twice in a day. Next thing I woke up the whole house was smashed to bits and the bottle was gone. Blackout central. I appreciate what your saying in the correct hands it may be less dangerous than some other options. However in the wrong hands or worse still in unknown doses decided by pure criminals who don't even take drugs themselves being pressed into uneven pills then consumed with heroin by largely uneducated users I could definitely see how it could become fatal.

I reckon it started out simply because there was loads of etizolam about, much of it in powder form and people realised that it could easily be pressed into pills that could look and even feel a bit like diazepam, but I don't think that the people pressing the pills realised how potent etizolam is. It was so cheap and so it wouldn't be hard to imagine someone putting 10mg of etiz into a tablet and calling it a 10mg diazepam without realising that that could be similar to eating 10 diazepam tablets. And then take into account that problematic street users would generally eat a whole bag of twenty tablets in one go, that is a fucking huge dose of etiz. Couple that with a bit of smack, booze, methadone and its likely the person isn't waking up. This will happen a few times in a locale and some nurse will tell the tabloids who will speak to a toxicologist (I dunno) who will say that the deceased all had etizolam in their blood. Other locales start to report similar. Suddenly, etizolam is the new evil.

Look at spice in Manchester or "monkey dust" in Stoke. It's not far from the kind of reporting you see in the states about people eating faces after taking a cathinone that has been given various names based on where the story has come from.

 

[AlsoTapered]

@AlsoTapered

How do you know how much etizolam they put in the tablets though?

IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you consume more than 1mg. Duration increases, potency does not - because it's an a2/a3 selective ligand (a minor GABA receptor subtype) and you can't get more than 100% receptor occupancy.

YES - I do read a LOT of HR information. Working for Lifeline for over a decade kind of stuck with me.

I've already stated that MAYBE their is some unobserved interaction SPECIFIC to etizolam and I don't know if people are whacking up the pills.

But the fact that every single damned HR agency repeats that 'etizolam is ten times as potent as diazepam' is a disingenuous statement. Yes, it's as potent as a single 10mg diazepam..... but 20 etizolam tablets would ALSO be as potent as a single 10mg diazepam.

IREALLY have tried to explain some technical details. Apparently I failed.

 

[elgoucho9]

So you don't think unknown doses of etizolam ontop of other drugs like heroin, methadone, alcohol, could be fatal?

News: June 2018 – Scotland: Number of deaths involving benzodiazepine-type NPS etizolam and diclazepam increase sharply in 2016

Portal of the UNODC ICE Programme

www.unodc.org

Usually you post alot of informative stuff and i enjoy reading your posts. For whatever reason you seem to be set on defying all logic with this one.

 

[AlsoTapered]

So you don't think unknown doses of etizolam ontop of other drugs like heroin, methadone, alcohol, could be fatal?

News: June 2018 – Scotland: Number of deaths involving benzodiazepine-type NPS etizolam and diclazepam increase sharply in 2016

Portal of the UNODC ICE Programme

www.unodc.org

Usually you post alot of informative stuff and i enjoy reading your posts. For whatever reason you seem to be set on defying all logic with this one.

Have you considered that I might simply be better informed?

I wouldn't bother to contradict people if I hadn't done my homework. I mean, what would be in it for me? It's hardly like I need to prove I AM rather well qualified, I don't need external validation BUT I am absolutely fixated on getting to the truth. So I BEGAN by reading the original 1972 patent and went from there. It's a lot of (unpaid) work.

Just because the media and even a HR agency states something as fact, I feel I did adequately demonstrate their limited comprehension.

Etizolam isn't prescribed in the UK so it's EASY to blame. But if you read articled before the 'etizolam terror' you will note that of the UK prescribed benzodiazepines, nitrazepam then clonazepam and then diazepam were the most common drug found in the bodies of poly drug users (opiate users) and heroin followed by methadone were the most common opioids found.

BUT their is reference in several papers from 2016 noting that NPCs (novel psychoactive compounds), specifically RC benzos were becoming increasingly found in the bodies of victims. Well, etizolam isn't an NPC. It isn't prescribed in the UK, but it IS used in other nations. A subtle distinction, but flunitrazepam has been found in the UK and nowhere was in described as an NPC. Because it's NOT novel.