Bupe Suboxone as an antidepressant need help plz !

[DeathIndustrial88]

Bupe withdrawal can vary.
Some one taking extremely low doses of course might start withdrawal earlier than say some one taking 2+mg daily for weeks at a time.
Bupe withdrawal doesn't start for me for about 2-3 days after I've stopped. Longest I went through it was a little over a week I think. And by that time, I was having shakes in my hands like I was having alcohol/benzo withdrawal & absolutely could not sleep for shit. Couldn't enjoy music or anything around me. No energy. It was a nightmare. Haven't gone that long without it since.

 

[Kizaru]

Bupe withdrawal can vary.
Some one taking extremely low doses of course might start withdrawal earlier than say some one taking 2+mg daily for weeks at a time.
Bupe withdrawal doesn't start for me for about 2-3 days after I've stopped. Longest I went through it was a little over a week I think. And by that time, I was having shakes in my hands like I was having alcohol/benzo withdrawal & absolutely could not sleep for shit. Couldn't enjoy music or anything around me. No energy. It was a nightmare. Haven't gone that long without it since.

Yeah like i thought it starts (early symptoms) at day 3 and at day 5 wd will settle in . So you are staying on it ? On what dose are you settled if i may ask ?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah like i thought it starts (early symptoms) at day 3 and at day 5 wd will settle in . So you are staying on it ? On what dose are you settled if i may ask ?

Yeah I think I'll probably just stay on it for life.
It doesn't remove my cravings really anymore though. I still think about heroin/full agonists every day when I wake up.
But it's better than nothing & my quality of life would be absolute garbage if I didn't have some sort of opioid to help motivate & get me going everyday.
I've been everywhere from .5mg-24mg over the past 7ish years. Currently tapering down a bit cause my doctor wants me to. I feel I can get by okay on 8mg or less really. Though some days I do feel like I need a whole 12-16mg in order to feel "normal", cause any less just leaves me lethargic & craving even worse.

Some one with no tolerance/low tolerance & who isn't an opioid fanatic like me can get by on much much less though.
Back in the day (around 2016-2018), my heroin dealer would come to me when my tolerance was low or absent & instead of buying a 20 bag of heroin (which would last me maybe a day, day & a half), I'd buy 2 strips for 20 & those 2 strips would have me feeling pretty good every day for at least 2 weeks. So even though I prefer heroin, there was a time where I went with subs over heroin, since it was cheaper, kept me good all day & lasted so much longer.

 

[Kizaru]

Yeah I think I'll probably just stay on it for life.
It doesn't remove my cravings really anymore though. I still think about heroin/full agonists every day when I wake up.
But it's better than nothing & my quality of life would be absolute garbage if I didn't have some sort of opioid to help motivate & get me going everyday.
I've been everywhere from .5mg-24mg over the past 7ish years. Currently tapering down a bit cause my doctor wants me to. I feel I can get by okay on 8mg or less really. Though some days I do feel like I need a whole 12-16mg in order to feel "normal", cause any less just leaves me lethargic & craving even worse.

Some one with no tolerance/low tolerance & who isn't an opioid fanatic like me can get by on much much less though.
Back in the day (around 2016-2018), my heroin dealer would come to me when my tolerance was low or absent & instead of buying a 20 bag of heroin (which would last me maybe a day, day & a half), I'd buy 2 strips for 20 & those 2 strips would have me feeling pretty good every day for at least 2 weeks. So even though I prefer heroin, there was a time where I went with subs over heroin, since it was cheaper, kept me good all day & lasted so much longer.

I am glad you can function normally on suboxone . I think the cravings will get less eventually for you . Its just a matter of time and getting used (ofcourse i have never used heroïne so i rlly can't say how extremely difficult it must be) but i hope the best for you . I have never had an opioide abuse history , i do however have other addictions like ghb which kinda resembles an opioide like kind of high and suboxone helped tremendously to beat that addiction . But i did trade it for suboxone . I have been abusing for like 6 months , should i taper and quit ? I just don't know of the depression gets out of hand i know i can't stop . But on the other hand i don't get subs prescribed and get them from someone i know so i don't want to be dependant over that.
I think i should quit but on the other hand i have a more stable life . I dunno what to do anymore

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I am glad you can function normally on suboxone . I think the cravings will get less eventually for you . Its just a matter of time and getting used (ofcourse i have never used heroïne so i rlly can't say how extremely difficult it must be) but i hope the best for you . I have never had an opioide abuse history , i do however have other addictions like ghb which kinda resembles an opioide like kind of high and suboxone helped tremendously to beat that addiction . But i did trade it for suboxone . I have been abusing for like 6 months , should i taper and quit ? I just don't know of the depression gets out of hand i know i can't stop . But on the other hand i don't get subs prescribed and get them from someone i know so i don't want to be dependant over that.
I think i should quit but on the other hand i have a more stable life . I dunno what to do anymore

Honestly,
Suboxone helped my cravings more in the beginning than it does now. Probably because back then I still got a bit of a "high" from it.
Now I can take it & at most I might feel tired but that's it. So my cravings have started coming back & I have a feeling they'll just continue forever unless I get on another opioid.

I'd rather be on methadone or something at least. But I refuse to be a clinic slave just to feel ok every day.

I can understand. I've found getting dependent on other substances as a way to get off of another.
Are you asking if you should taper & quit subs? If you don't think you'll have access to them long term, it might be a good idea.
You can always get on your own as well. Depending on what kind of insurance you have & stuff.
I've known people who have gotten hooked on subs just as much as any other opioid. I don't have any experience with ghb though if that's what you were asking about.

 

[Kizaru]

Honestly,
Suboxone helped my cravings more in the beginning than it does now. Probably because back then I still got a bit of a "high" from it.
Now I can take it & at most I might feel tired but that's it. So my cravings have started coming back & I have a feeling they'll just continue forever unless I get on another opioid.

I'd rather be on methadone or something at least. But I refuse to be a clinic slave just to feel ok every day.

I can understand. I've found getting dependent on other substances as a way to get off of another.
Are you asking if you should taper & quit subs? If you don't think you'll have access to them long term, it might be a good idea.
You can always get on your own as well. Depending on what kind of insurance you have & stuff.
I've known people who have gotten hooked on subs just as much as any other opioid. I don't have any experience with ghb though if that's what you were asking about.

So you are like proof that even suboxone won't help always with stuff like cravings . I also read it was not ment to be used for long term in the first place but i don't have the exact source on that . I can definitely understand that in the beginning you still got a sort of high out of it which contributed to the anti craving part . I am still on that level i think . I appreciate your input alot , i think the best choice for me is to quit and taper if needed . I can get my hands on stuff like lyrica and diazepam which might ease the wd phase a little . Not planning on getting hooked or anything on those ,but i have no history of problems with neither of those 2 . Ghb by the way is a pretty underground drug , resembles an opioide/mdma/benzo like high but with increased libido etc compared to opioides. My addiction was mostly a poly one ghb with amphetamines . Ghb is highly abusable just like opioides and has a mere half life of 30/60 mins . I just found out by accident suboxone helped alot for g cravings also .

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

So you are like proof that even suboxone won't help always with stuff like cravings . I also read it was not ment to be used for long term in the first place but i don't have the exact source on that . I can definitely understand that in the beginning you still got a sort of high out of it which contributed to the anti craving part . I am still on that level i think . I appreciate your input alot , i think the best choice for me is to quit and taper if needed . I can get my hands on stuff like lyrica and diazepam which might ease the wd phase a little . Not planning on getting hooked or anything on those ,but i have no history of problems with neither of those 2 . Ghb by the way is a pretty underground drug , resembles an opioide/mdma/benzo like high but with increased libido etc compared to opioides. My addiction was mostly a poly one ghb with amphetamines . Ghb is highly abusable just like opioides and has a mere half life of 30/60 mins . I just found out by accident suboxone helped alot for g cravings also .

Sounds like a good plan!
yeah I'm definitely living proof that Suboxone's effectiveness decreases the longer you're on it. Some people say it still helps them after 8, 9 or 10 years of being on it though, so I guess it varies by individual. I have an unhealthy obsession with opioids, but only because they've been wonder drugs for me & it bothers me that I can't access them like I use to or buy/use them legally.

The lyrica & benzos will definitely help.
Some will say use kratom after you jump off the bupe, but I've personally never gotten anything worthwhile from kratom. I literally have 2 fat bags of it just laying around from quite awhile back. If it had any enjoyable opioid-like effects, these bags wouldn't still be sitting here half full. lol

I was offered the chance to do GHB once, but I was already on alcohol, subs, benzos & methamphetamine. And I've heard the overdose window with ghb is pretty low, so I turned it down in fear that I might OD with all that other shit in my system.

Hopefully it works out for you! Feel free to hit me up if you need any help or have any questions a long the way!

 

[Kizaru]

Sounds like a good plan!
yeah I'm definitely living proof that Suboxone's effectiveness decreases the longer you're on it. Some people say it still helps them after 8, 9 or 10 years of being on it though, so I guess it varies by individual. I have an unhealthy obsession with opioids, but only because they've been wonder drugs for me & it bothers me that I can't access them like I use to or buy/use them legally.

The lyrica & benzos will definitely help.
Some will say use kratom after you jump off the bupe, but I've personally never gotten anything worthwhile from kratom. I literally have 2 fat bags of it just laying around from quite awhile back. If it had any enjoyable opioid-like effects, these bags wouldn't still be sitting here half full. lol

I was offered the chance to do GHB once, but I was already on alcohol, subs, benzos & methamphetamine. And I've heard the overdose window with ghb is pretty low, so I turned it down in fear that I might OD with all that other shit in my system.

Hopefully it works out for you! Feel free to hit me up if you need any help or have any questions a long the way!

Thx for your reply man i appreciate it
Ghb with that many downers ain't a good idea indeed ,and the dosing window is narrow . But something like fentanyl is much much more dangerous . A heavy sleep dose of ghb (where you can't wake someone up) still falls way below od level ,so with ghb most of the times if you accidently took more you will long fall asleep before you even hit OD territory . Problems always arrise if combined but this applies to every downer . Also the kratom just like you discripe doesn't rlly do much i have absolutely no clue how people can get physically dependant on kratom . If i redose kratom even 1 time it doesnt work at all and its way to expensive . I still like to take it sometimes but its rlly just 1 dose a day . You actually can combine kratom with suboxone with synergising effect (because kratom works on alot of different opioide receptors subs don't completely block it like it blocks other opioide's . I am now stabalising myself on 0.5 suboxone , i do however snort it which has a higher bioavaliability so this unfortunately means i actually take more and maybe wd comes up early compared to sublingual . But i have been using on and off for like half a year , i hope i can get myself off it with not to much negative shit (i hope) .

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Thx for your reply man i appreciate it
Ghb with that many downers ain't a good idea indeed ,and the dosing window is narrow . But something like fentanyl is much much more dangerous . A heavy sleep dose of ghb (where you can't wake someone up) still falls way below od level ,so with ghb most of the times if you accidently took more you will long fall asleep before you even hit OD territory . Problems always arrise if combined but this applies to every downer . Also the kratom just like you discripe doesn't rlly do much i have absolutely no clue how people can get physically dependant on kratom . If i redose kratom even 1 time it doesnt work at all and its way to expensive . I still like to take it sometimes but its rlly just 1 dose a day . You actually can combine kratom with suboxone with synergising effect (because kratom works on alot of different opioide receptors subs don't completely block it like it blocks other opioide's . I am now stabalising myself on 0.5 suboxone , i do however snort it which has a higher bioavaliability so this unfortunately means i actually take more and maybe wd comes up early compared to sublingual . But i have been using on and off for like half a year , i hope i can get myself off it with not to much negative shit (i hope) .

Yeah I have no idea how people say kratom helps their pain or helped them get off heroin or something. lol
Kratom does absolutely nothing for me. I mean it has effects for me, but they're not even in the same league as traditional opiates.
It's like saying "i switched to coffee to get off heroin". lol I don't get it at all.

 

[Kizaru]

Yeah I have no idea how people say kratom helps their pain or helped them get off heroin or something. lol
Kratom does absolutely nothing for me. I mean it has effects for me, but they're not even in the same league as traditional opiates.
It's like saying "i switched to coffee to get off heroin". lol I don't get it at all.

Yeah i literally never understood that . I doubt kratom blocks any full blown full opioide agonist . I dunno maybe it can still help symptoms like rls and pain management? I do have good quality red vein Sumatra .

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah i literally never understood that . I doubt kratom blocks any full blown full opioide agonist . I dunno maybe it can still help symptoms like rls and pain management? I do have good quality red vein Sumatra .

Kratom is full of all kinds of alkaloids that do a bunch of shit. Including opioid antagonists & dopamine blockers.

I think pure Mitragynine & it's metabolite probably have some weak partial agonist effects that are comparable to opioids. But even all the extracts I've tried were pretty bland.

I keep reading on websites that 7-hydroxymitragynine is a "full agonist" at the mu receptor & I can't for the life of me figure out where this information is coming from because if this were true, we'd of heard of people overdosing on kratom. And if 7-HOM is a full agonist, surely it would be just as enjoyable as other opioids... but that hasn't been my experience.

Regardless, I still have a big bag of green & red vein but if it were good shit, it'd be gone by now. lol

 

[Kizaru]

Kratom is full of all kinds of alkaloids that do a bunch of shit. Including opioid antagonists & dopamine blockers.

I think pure Mitragynine & it's metabolite probably have some weak partial agonist effects that are comparable to opioids. But even all the extracts I've tried were pretty bland.

I keep reading on websites that 7-hydroxymitragynine is a "full agonist" at the mu receptor & I can't for the life of me figure out where this information is coming from because if this were true, we'd of heard of people overdosing on kratom. And if 7-HOM is a full agonist, surely it would be just as enjoyable as other opioids... but that hasn't been my experience.

Regardless, I still have a big bag of green & red vein but if it were good shit, it'd be gone by now. lol

I have never experienced a "nodd" with kratom . I do however have with suboxone (lower tolerance) i can take 8/10 grams of high mitragaine quality and be fine . Its just a different kind of opioide , but if you do have that lucky dose of kratom it can be nice ,but its just Kitty cat compared to other stuff.Hence why its legal i guess maybe 7 hydroxymitragaine is a full mu agonist but there is so little of it percentage wise that it barely tickles it ?

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well I know that the Japanese conducted a lot of research into kratom and nothing came from it. A couple of supply houses offer 7-hydroxymitragynine picrate.... They will only ship 50mg at a time suggesting the 7-OH mitragynine doesn't tame the well known sensitive high explosive picric acid.

Picric acid is the most acidic phenol known (at least to me) which suggests that the compound exists as a zwitterion with the 2 nitrogens rapidly interconverting between being imines and amines (because the double bond is in a different place when compared to mitragynine).

I'm not sure if zwitterion is quite the term I want. Syndone isn't the right word I'm groping for either.... anyone?

 

[Kizaru]

Kratom is full of all kinds of alkaloids that do a bunch of shit. Including opioid antagonists & dopamine blockers.

I think pure Mitragynine & it's metabolite probably have some weak partial agonist effects that are comparable to opioids. But even all the extracts I've tried were pretty bland.

I keep reading on websites that 7-hydroxymitragynine is a "full agonist" at the mu receptor & I can't for the life of me figure out where this information is coming from because if this were true, we'd of heard of people overdosing on kratom. And if 7-HOM is a full agonist, surely it would be just as enjoyable as other opioids... but that hasn't been my experience.

Regardless, I still have a big bag of green & red vein but if it were good shit, it'd be gone by now. lol

7-Hydroxymitragynine, like mitragynine, appears to be a mixed opioid receptor agonist/antagonist, acting as a partial agonist at µ-opioid receptors and as a competitive antagonist at δ- and κ-opioid receptors.[11][12] It also acts on alpha 2 adrenergic and 5-HT2A receptors.

This is from wikipedia . It does not state its a full MU agonist .

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

A part of me wishes to have not stayed on 2mg/day for self-medicating for my depression. Tappering gives migraines and organizing script days with a day job leads to me having days where I’m sick at work.

 

[Kizaru]

A part of me wishes to have not stayed on 2mg/day for self-medicating for my depression. Tappering gives migraines and organizing script days with a day job leads to me having days where I’m sick at work.

That sucks i am sorry . Kinda tapering myself . I hope i can get thrue it . How long you used 2mg for depression ?

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

That sucks i am sorry . Kinda tapering myself . I hope i can get thrue it . How long you used 2mg for depression ?

I’ve been on 2mg/day for 2.5 years. I picked up my script during lunch break as I was experiencing diarrhea; not fun being an absolute slave to this mf called subs.

 

[AlsoTapered]

It seems like long-term buprenorphine is a very bad idea.

I wonder if thienorphine will make it to the market. it's duration and the duration of it's active metabolite are HUGE,

 

[Kizaru]

It seems like long-term buprenorphine is a very bad idea.

I wonder if thienorphine will make it to the market. it's duration and the duration of it's active metabolite are HUGE,

I’ve been on 2mg/day for 2.5 years. I picked up my script during lunch break as I was experiencing diarrhea; not fun being an absolute slave to this mf called subs.

Whats happens if you taper very slowly ? Is it still suffering ? I thought suboxone made that possible since it attaches so strong to the receptor even tiny dosis are active .

 

[AlsoTapered]

Whats happens if you taper very slowly ? Is it still suffering ? I thought suboxone made that possible since it attaches so strong to the receptor even tiny dosis are active .

But you have a lot of receptors so as you go down, fewer and fewer are occupied. Bup doesn't irreversibly bind, it does detach and can attach to a different opiate receptor.