Discussion Should Harm Reduction supplies be funded by tax dollars?

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^^^^ They need help and guidance. With love. Not more arguing.

Sometimes we ALL have to learn how to do the right thing and be an adult and s#ut up. TOGETHER. 😁🎚️

Or ##'# try.

Have a lovely and loving day. Yes !!

That's an amazing camp though. o_O <3

I get it.
 
Mr. Krinkle said:



there ya go....that's what your version of harm reduction looks like
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What's happening there is a generic homelessness problem, not simply a drug use problem. And I will stand by the fact that if you wanna help people, you have to meet them where they're at, not where you'd like them to be.

Several European countries run safe sites, and where these operate you actually have a greater percentage of people accepting therapy and mental health treatment etc and eventually getting their life together, why? Because merely finding themselves in a place where they're treated like humans instead of scum and where someone doesn't demand you change on the spot before you're deemed worthy of help, for many is the first step in re-thinking their options.
 
Yes i agree sorry for being too quick.

I think we should neither give free stuff to addicts for tax money nor treat users like criminals.
 
Housing first without abstinence requirements combined with providing comprehensive mental health support is the what would do the most to help the homeless situation. We can't expect the free market to do it either, its definitely something I would want my tax dollars to go towards rather than bombing brown people and building/developing/selling weapons
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Housing first without abstinence requirements combined with providing comprehensive mental health support is the what would do the most to help the homeless situation. We can't expect the free market to do it either, its definitely something I would want my tax dollars to go towards rather than bombing brown people and building/developing/selling weapons
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They did exactly that in Finland. The government rolled out a project called 'housing first' in 2008. People like to call it radical ; I'd just call it common sense.
The reasoning was that instead of demanding that people who are variously ill, traumatised and mostly too unstable to be in any way employable to get clean, get a job etc in order to be 'rewarded' with housing, you need to give them a secure living situation to START with.

People who accept the housing offer get medical help with any problem they might have, as well as detox / therapy services. Once fit physically and mentally there's programmes that prepare you for work. A majority of those who enter the project eventually sort themselves out, find employment and go on to live independently in a place of their own. Those who can't still receive support and have a roof above their head.
Street homelessness has been drastically reduced in the country as a result and the stated aim is to totally eradicate it. There's no reason why this could not be done in every country that's wealthy enough, but the political will isn't there.
 
Mjäll said:
I think we should neither give free stuff to addicts for tax money nor treat users like criminals.
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I'm absolutely for giving out clean needles etc to those who can't afford to buy them at needle exchanges, in the same way as I'm for free condoms at health clinics, because it's an effective way to prevent certain communicable diseases.
And if you wanna be purely pragmatic and take the financial over the humanitarian perspective, once somebody has acquired HIV or chronic hepatitis, they cost a lot more tax money to treat
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
I'm absolutely for giving out clean needles etc to those who can't afford to buy them at needle exchanges, in the same way as I'm for free condoms at health clinics, because it's an effective way to prevent certain communicable diseases.
And if you wanna be purely pragmatic and take the financial over the humanitarian perspective, once somebody has acquired HIV or chronic hepatitis, they cost a lot more tax money to treat
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Yea but what if we just don't treat them? They can't pay for it anyway cause they're poor and so they'll just die. That's way less expensive /s
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Yea but what if we just don't treat them? They can't pay for it anyway cause they're poor and so they'll just die. That's way less expensive /s
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If I had a pound for every time some 'good citizen' told me to my face I'd be better off dead / practically owed it to society to die so I wouldn't be a burden on the virtuous tax payer... pffff.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
I was referencing the creepy and fascist mandatory rehab bit. Its a wild take for someone frequenting a harm reduction community
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it sounds fascist to you? that's a ridiculous thing to say


whatever's going on right now, isn't working....ok? and that's your brand of "harm reduction", which i don't agree with - and i never will

in all cases, people only do what you let them do - if you let them have a free open drug market, you're gonna get the garbage that you get all over the streets now

in places that they don't allow it to happen, you simply don't see it on the streets - simple as that
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Yea but what if we just don't treat them? They can't pay for it anyway cause they're poor and so they'll just die. That's way less expensive /s
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the choice is yours

if you choose to do those drugs, you pay the price - why should the rest of us who choose not to do what they do, also pay the price, in more ways than one

we're not just talking tax dollars - we're talking unsafe environments - people getting hit over the head while they're walking home from work, for no reason at all







you think that's ok? ^


that's wrong with you people - just sweep that kinda shit under the rug and act like you're helping people
 
If you had read the other posts maybe you could see that there are solutions that don't involve forcing people to do things but instead providing proper support, but it seems US conservatives love playing the victim
 
someguyontheinternet said:
If you had read the other posts maybe you could see that there are solutions that don't involve forcing people to do things but instead providing proper support, but it seems US conservatives love playing the victim
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You're playing politics... I'm not a conservative - I'm just telling you the way it is
 
Yet you still haven't considered that we already discussed better ways to doing things, convenient how you just ignore that I guess
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
I'm absolutely for giving out clean needles etc to those who can't afford to buy them at needle exchanges, in the same way as I'm for free condoms at health clinics, because it's an effective way to prevent certain communicable diseases.
And if you wanna be purely pragmatic and take the financial over the humanitarian perspective, once somebody has acquired HIV or chronic hepatitis, they cost a lot more tax money to treat
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Sure, many people are. It's not a big issue for me. Free needles are a small expense compared to many others. However, my core values are libertarian.

Mr. Krinkle said:
it sounds fascist to you? that's a ridiculous thing to say


whatever's going on right now, isn't working....ok? and that's your brand of "harm reduction", which i don't agree with - and i never will

in all cases, people only do what you let them do - if you let them have a free open drug market, you're gonna get the garbage that you get all over the streets now

in places that they don't allow it to happen, you simply don't see it on the streets - simple as that
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Unless i'm mistaken about the terms, "mandatory rehab" is obviously fascist, just like the entire war on drugs. Maybe there's a mismatch between what you're actually proposing and what you yourself believe to be the gist of what you're trying to express.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Yet you still haven't considered that we already discussed better ways to doing things, convenient how you just ignore that I guess
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Where do you live?

I've lived in 2 major cities my whole life - I see it with my own 2 eyes

You're not gonna tell me the way it is
 
Mjäll said:
Unless i'm mistaken about the terms, "mandatory rehab" is obviously fascist, just like the entire war on drugs. Maybe there's a mismatch between what you're actually proposing and what you yourself believe to be the gist of what you're trying to express.
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Well... What these ppl are doing on the streets, out in the open, is illegal - so you can either go to jail or get help - but you're not gonna continue doing what you're doing on the streets

The choice is yours


but according to some of you, that makes me a fascist

:laughing:
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
Well... What these ppl are doing on the streets, out in the open, is illegal - so you can either go to jail or get help - but you're not gonna continue doing what you're doing on the streets

The choice is yours


but according to some of you, that makes me a fascist

:laughing:
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No, we consider "mandatory rehab" a fascist idea. No-one has said that what you say in this post makes you a fascist. Why are you lying to me?

It's not difficult to use language as language.
 
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