Bluelighters views on the Catholic Church: are u one of us? Do you like us-hate us-pity us-whatever us and if so why?

[skipjames]

Hi there,
life in general and BL in particular are full of nice surprises, and what a great surprise it was for me to discover the existence of a strong minority of Christian Bluelighters of various denominations and even of fellow Catholics in this jolly community of ours, and to have a number of interesting conversations about my religion with people from different or no religious backgrounds!!.
So my question is : what do you think of Catholicism ( I don t like the expression "Roman Catholicism" as we have 23 sui iuris Churches such as the Eastern Catholic ones that are not Latin but are catholic anyway https://media.ascensionpress.com/2019/01/21/the-other-23-catholic-churches-and-why-they-exist/ ) ?
Are you Catholic? Say hi!
were you Catholic but left- are thinking to leave? say why!
Are you an atheist so whatever, it s all fairytale anyway,expand!
Are you an Atheist still respect the Catholic Church because...? Are you an Atheist but Catholicism is the religion that pisses you off the most, tell me why is that.
Are you a Christian from another denomination, consider us fellow Christians but with some misguided doctrines, such as...?
Are you a Christian and are convinced that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon the Pope is the AntiChrist and we are a bunch of pagan Mary worshippers that will burn in Hell along with our Rosaries? Let s try to have a civilised conversation about it!
Do you have an altogether different religion, so which one and what s your take on Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular?
Catholicism interests you and you have questions, I m no Benedict XVI and I have my issues with the use and abuse of one or two substances but I have also read one or two things about the subject, if I can be of any help....
So yeah, that s it . I hang out with people from very different religious background- no religion at all and I have also been an atheist and a "Generically Christian but very anti Catholic" one so I think I can easily relate with various points of views or at least I try to, and it s a topic I like to discuss a lot so if you feel like it, let s talk!

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I'm an atheist and also anti-theist (I'm completely against organized religion).
I think the catholic church is very toxic and the route of a LOT of evil in the world. That's not specific to catholics, or even christians. I think all religions are (roughly) equally bad.
However, it's the religion I hate, not the people. If someone believes in God and that brings them comfort or makes them strive to be a better person, I think that's fantastic and good for them. I have no issue with people believing in God. I think they're wrong/kidding themselves, but we all have different beliefs and that's a good thing.
It's the misogyny, homophobia, oppression, constant child sex scandals etc is my issue with it, not just people who believe in a higher power.

 

[Mjäll]

It's not as bad as islam or judaism but it's still bullshit.

Best regards

 

[ColoradoOpiateGirl]

Roman Catholic here.
Most persecuted religion in the WORLD.


They hate us cuz they ain't us.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

im kinda Catholic but not like really Catholic


i was raised Catholic but not hardcore - like it wasn't forced on us....Italians are a little more laid back about it

i don't go to church or anything and i only did my communion and pennants but i never did my confirmation - so i only got 1 middle name still

but anyway - i like Catholics - they're usually cool

 

[skipjames]

im kinda Catholic but not like really Catholic


i was raised Catholic but not hardcore - like it wasn't forced on us....Italians are a little more laid back about it

i don't go to church or anything and i only did my communion and pennants but i never did my confirmation - so i only got 1 middle name still

but anyway - i like Catholics - they're usually cool

It s cool that you Italo Americans are generally proud of your heritage and do some traditional stuff we Italo Italians don t do anymore. i did my Confirmation ( i m glad that I did now , back in the days I did not want to but it was not even an option but as youn might know you don t really wanna mess with an Italian mom especially at 12) but I received no Middle Name, so same here I ve only got one . If only you guys were not shaming usn all with stuff like Chicken Pasta or Creamy Carbonara or...Alfredo whatever ( we still wonder who this Alfredo guy is anyway...we have "pasta in bianco" but is stuff you eat when you are on a diet and -or you are sick. you get a pass from me for Spaghetti and meatball but that s because I m open minded) . But seriously i have noticed that Italians in Italy and in the Diaspora and more generally Latin and Latin American Catholicism is less hardcore and "somber"then its other counterparts, dunno how it is in the US but when Italian moved en masse to London they preferred to build their own Catholic Church rather than worship with the Irish (out of linguistic reason? cultural ones? to avoid bloodbaths?)

 

[MsDiz]

I grew up in rural Ireland so was obviously brought up strict catholic.

I renounced it completely as the older I got the more I realised how hypocritical the Catholic Church is. The collections they take from poor parishioners that all go to the clergy and back to Rome. The Vatican, my god, the amount of money the Catholic Church has and yet I remember at mass the priest saying “he who comes first will come last”. They have more money than they could ever use yet they help no one. I’ve never seen our local church help any of its dedicated parishioners. How sad is that.

The cover ups of their priests who were peadophiles. The cover ups when it came to the mother and baby homes. The amount of babies bodies found at Tuam and that’s only the tip of the iceberg. The nuns, the priests, the Catholic Church had a hand in it all and it’s so so disgusting.

Here’s a link but probably best not to read it after you’ve eaten.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

It s cool that you Italo Americans are generally proud of your heritage and do some traditional stuff we Italo Italians don t do anymore. i did my Confirmation ( i m glad that I did now , back in the days I did not want to but it was not even an option but as youn might know you don t really wanna mess with an Italian mom especially at 12) but I received no Middle Name, so same here I ve only got one . If only you guys were not shaming usn all with stuff like Chicken Pasta or Creamy Carbonara or...Alfredo whatever ( we still wonder who this Alfredo guy is anyway...we have "pasta in bianco" but is stuff you eat when you are on a diet and -or you are sick. you get a pass from me for Spaghetti and meatball but that s because I m open minded) . But seriously i have noticed that Italians in Italy and in the Diaspora and more generally Latin and Latin American Catholicism is less hardcore and "somber"then its other counterparts, dunno how it is in the US but when Italian moved en masse to London they preferred to build their own Catholic Church rather than worship with the Irish (out of linguistic reason? cultural ones? to avoid bloodbaths?)

ya know, i don't know who that is - i think it's the sicilians who put chicken or alfredo in their pasta - i don't like those heavy cream sauces at all - feel like shit after i eat that

my family is mostly from Puglia....Foggia area - San Nicandro Garganico to be specific

the side that isn't from Puglia, is from right outside Naples - so i didn't grow up eating like that either.... and i don't like spaghetti at all - im an orecchiette, cavatappi, fusilli, or rigatoni kinda guy - but my family did make sausage, meatballs, and brasciole every sunday

my grandfather firmly believed in never adding chicken to any kind of sauce

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I hate all religions. Not necessarily the followers, but the leaders with their hidden agendas can fuck right off.

 

[skipjames]

It's not as bad as islam or judaism but it's still bullshit.

Best regards

It could work as an amazing slogan " Join the Catholic Church- still bullshit but not as bad as Judaism and Islam!"
Cheers

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Some faiths consider God not in the kingly sense but of the self. Which, only you are the leader of your own agenda. Whether that's something to hate, or not, only you would subjectively know. Perhaps even here, you have followers?

I personally don't recognise faith - its only superstition under a different guise.

But I do kind of understand spirituality on a personal level (as anyone who has experienced psychedelics would).

To me, faith and spirituality are totally different. Faith is for the gullible, spirituality is for the enlightened...

 

[skipjames]

ya know, i don't know who that is - i think it's the sicilians who put chicken or alfredo in their pasta - i don't like those heavy cream sauces at all - feel like shit after i eat that

my family is mostly from Puglia....Foggia area - San Nicandro Garganico to be specific

the side that isn't from Puglia, is from right outside Naples - so i didn't grow up eating like that either.... and i don't like spaghetti at all - im an orecchiette, cavatappi, fusilli, or rigatoni kinda guy - but my family did make sausage, meatballs, and brasciole every sunday

my grandfather firmly believed in never adding chicken to any kind of sauce

Whoa! I m from Puglia myself, different city though We have a saying down there " Fuggi da Foggia non per Foggia per i foggiani" ( Run Away from Foggia not for the city but for the people") because they are known for their,so to say, fierce nature . Kidding but my grandfather was from the Foggia area ( Trinitapoli) and he definitely was the Ultimate South Italian Alpha Male.

The sicilians know their shit when it comes to food as we all do in the South and the Centre ( in the North it s mostly booze and polenta ) I wonder what happened on them boats...anyway orecchiette? braciole? I ld kill to find some here in Brazil!

 

[RDP89]

Roman Catholic here.
Most persecuted religion in the WORLD.


They hate us cuz they ain't us.

I would honestly love to hear a coherent argument on how Catholicism is more persecuted worldwide than Judaism or Islam. I doubt that even most Catholics would try to argue that case.

 

[RDP89]

Atheism is a belief in that there are no dieties. That's still a strong faith in the same way nothing is something. I have faith that someday I will die. At least I'm hoping that to be the case.

This is a common misconception about atheism. Atheism itself is simply a lack of belief in deities. Lack of belief, not a belief. An agnostic atheist does not believe in a god or gods but does not claim to possess knowledge regarding it. So they admit that it is possible that a god exists, but don’t have a firm belief one way or the other. Gnostic atheists actually have a firm belief that no god or gods exist.

These are very black and white while the Dawkins scale is more of a spectrum:

1. Strong theist. 100% probability of God. In the words of Carl Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100%. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
3. Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50% but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
4. Completely impartial. Exactly 50%. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
5. Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50% but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one." (From “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins)

 

[skipjames]

Roman Catholic here.
Most persecuted religion in the WORLD.


They hate us cuz they ain't us.

wow a fellow Catholic AND a fellow opioid user? That s my combo as well, with the odd coke here and there since I moved to South America. Seriously I have read some of your posts and I think you are recovering, if so more power to you, if not we ll get there. I m still working on it, in the last...18 years I have alternated stints of sobriety with stints of fuck ups, I had it relatively easy compared to other addicts, I have never learned to IV, always managed to be somewhat functional with uni first and work later, never been to jail or fucked up big time with loved ones or LE...which from a side is a blessing from the other it s a curse cos I BS myself with stuff like " I m not a junkie like THEM, it s no biggie, some people like their wine some others pop oxys or smoke smack..." but I m increasingly convinced that you are functional until...you are not and I m not getting any younger....St Mark Ti Tianxiang pray for us sinners (have you heard about him? I m not a lot into the Intercession of the Saint thing but I find his story really inspiring https://aleteia.org/2017/07/06/he-w...-the-sacraments-but-hes-a-martyr-and-a-saint/ )

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I think it's the most twisted, fucked up religion in a sea of twisted, fucked up religions. Batshit crazy bordering on evil. Imo. I feel desparately sorry for anyone who has been brainwashed into it

When I ponder it (something I have now moved past as it's so very depressing) it makes my blood run cold, Grim.

 

[skipjames]

Strong theist. 100% probability of God. In the words of Carl Jung: "I do not believe, I know."

You know, Dawkins really but really pisses me off big time. Not (only ) because of his militant rabid atheism, but because he might be a super duper biologist but then he should stick to...biology rather than venturing into subjects like philosophy and theology he knows jack shit about. His criticisms of stuff like Aquinas´ Five Ways are embarrassing (setting aside whether these arguments work or not) and his idea of " strong theism" is ludicrous as well...probably just a gnostic or...Jung "know" that God exists, we other proles generally have Faith (as in rational trust not as in blind faith). I obviously don t agree with but I respect atheist philosophers of the past and of today (i.e. Graham Oppy)at least they know what they are talking about, differently from him....

 

[skipjames]

I think it's the most twisted, fucked up religion in a sea of twisted, fucked up religions. Batshit crazy bordering on evil. Imo. I feel desparately sorry for anyone who has been brainwashed into it

When I ponder it (something I have now moved past as it's so very depressing) it makes my blood run cold, Grim.

Aww, c mon now, at least we can do the dirt and then go to Confession and tomorrow is another day, compare and contrast with the sex starved Muslim virgin we were talking with on another thread, the one who cannot even find some solitary enjoyment for fear of Allah that prays to the aforementioned divinity to send him some pakistani bird to spit and kick the living shite out of him, now that´s depressing ! (Kidding and also sorry no offense to you Muslim friend if u are reading this, just breaking balls here and we all have our kinks but if my religion was driving me obsessed with parafilias borderline insane ... I ld either change my approach to religion or change religion.). I was not brainwashed into this evil cult, I went back on my own so I guess I m even more fucked up than your average cradle Catholic , can you expand on why we are the worst of the worst?

 

[skipjames]

I grew up in rural Ireland so was obviously brought up strict catholic.

I renounced it completely as the older I got the more I realised how hypocritical the Catholic Church is. The collections they take from poor parishioners that all go to the clergy and back to Rome. The Vatican, my god, the amount of money the Catholic Church has and yet I remember at mass the priest saying “he who comes first will come last”. They have more money than they could ever use yet they help no one. I’ve never seen our local church help any of its dedicated parishioners. How sad is that.

The cover ups of their priests who were peadophiles. The cover ups when it came to the mother and baby homes. The amount of babies bodies found at Tuam and that’s only the tip of the iceberg. The nuns, the priests, the Catholic Church had a hand in it all and it’s so so disgusting.

Here’s a link but probably best not to read it after you’ve eaten.

See, that´s what I was talking about @Mr. Krinkle , this is why in London we didn´t associate with the Irish and built our own Catholic Church, they have a somewhat BDSM version of Catholicism, I personally blame Cromwell... I m obviously joking mo chara ( is this how u say-write it?) and I aware of and saddened by the situation in Ireland, as far as I have understood (correct me if I m wrong ) when u guys finally had your Island back (well, most of it) the newborn Republic was in shambles and the Church was taking care of...everything (hospitals, welfare stuff like the Saint Vincent de PAul Society, etc etc) in return...they ruled you guys with a theocratic iron first unthinkable even in post war Italy ( i.e. no booze on Good Friday, no condoms or other contraceptives available in pharmacies, etc). Power and money attract the worst and plus your tormented history did not help etc etc. In Italy we had and have our fair share of corrupted clergy ( I hated the Church for a long time when I was living there) but in comparison we are secular like Holland. Now it backfired, I have heard that the Church has lost basically all of its credibility up there. Anyway, I beg to differ on the "they don t help anyone" stuff, there are obviously some shitty priests bishops etc do u have an idea of how many Catholic institutions are helping people all around the world (see down here in South America for instance) , how many Catholic hospitals and educational centers are around, actually if there are stuff ike ...orphanages and hospitals and universities in the first place is due to the Catholic Church (not to mention that the money is also used to take care of museums and other places of historical importance). Do u wanna see some real dodgy fuck ? Come here in South America and have a look at the lives and lies of the 'pastors" of these Neo Pentecostal mega Churches, now they are millionaires and give nothing in return. I see your point and I m glad to have avoided the Church from when I was 12 to...when I was 27 ( bt I went back when I was living in..the UK, we are cooler when we re a minority) and "mature" enough not to confound the fucked up messengers with the Message. Priest come in all shapes and forms , I ve met amazing ones and shitty ones, but they are a means...

 

[MsDiz]

See, that´s what I was talking about @Mr. Krinkle , this is why in London we didn´t associate with the Irish and built our own Catholic Church, they have a somewhat BDSM version of Catholicism, I personally blame Cromwell... I m obviously joking mo chara ( is this how u say-write it?) and I aware of and saddened by the situation in Ireland, as far as I have understood (correct me if I m wrong ) when u guys finally had your Island back (well, most of it) the newborn Republic was in shambles and the Church was taking care of...everything (hospitals, welfare stuff like the Saint Vincent de PAul Society, etc etc) in return...they ruled you guys with a theocratic iron first unthinkable even in post war Italy ( i.e. no booze on Good Friday, no condoms or other contraceptives available in pharmacies, etc). Power and money attract the worst and plus your tormented history did not help etc etc. In Italy we had and have our fair share of corrupted clergy ( I hated the Church for a long time when I was living there) but in comparison we are secular like Holland. Now it backfired, I have heard that the Church has lost basically all of its credibility up there. Anyway, I beg to differ on the "they don t help anyone" stuff, there are obviously some shitty priests bishops etc do u have an idea of how many Catholic institutions are helping people all around the world (see down here in South America for instance) , how many Catholic hospitals and educational centers are around, actually if there are stuff ike ...orphanages and hospitals and universities in the first place is due to the Catholic Church (not to mention that the money is also used to take care of museums and other places of historical importance). Do u wanna see some real dodgy fuck ? Come here in South America and have a look at the lives and lies of the 'pastors" of these Neo Pentecostal mega Churches, now they are millionaires and give nothing in return. I see your point and I m glad to have avoided the Church from when I was 12 to...when I was 27 ( bt I went back when I was living in..the UK, we are cooler when we re a minority) and "mature" enough not to confound the fucked up messengers with the Message. Priest come in all shapes and forms , I ve met amazing ones and shitty ones, but they are a means...

I don’t think there’s a catholic run institution in the whole of Ireland that there has not be scandal attached to. Not one. Says it all, doesn’t it.