Ketamine Ketamine Thread v. Willy Wonkeda

[deficiT]

I wanted to create a thread in NSADD to talk about ketamine in the Americas. It has surged in popularity. Some say it's even surpassed MDMA in the scene. (Old thread here)

This is an open ended thread, so as long as it's about ketamine in some fashion it's not off topic. You can relay stories, quality fluctuations, how you like the experience, and really anything else about it as you'd like.

As always, NO this is not the place to learn to score ketamine or discuss prices, so please be respectful to other posters in this thread. If discussing locations be as vague as possible.

I'll fix the prefix when I'm able to but for now it's getting lumped in with psychs.

Happy womping k enthusiasts


For posterities sake I will add a more clinical definition of ketamine, and ROA information I stole from Psychonautwiki and Erowid

"Ketamine (also known as Ket, K, Special K, vitamin K,[5] Kitty, and others) is a classical dissociative substance of the arylcyclohexylamine class. It is perhaps the best-known and archetypal member of the dissociatives, a diverse group which includes PCP, methoxetamine, DXM, and nitrous oxide. The mechanism of action is not fully known, although blocking of the NMDA glutamate receptor is thought to be involved."

Oral
Dosage
Bioavailability
17%
[2]
Threshold
50 mg
Light
50 - 100 mg
Common
100 - 300 mg
Strong
300 - 450 mg
Heavy
450 mg+
Duration
Onset
10 - 30 minutes
Come up
5 - 20 minutes
Peak
45 - 90 minutes
Offset
3 - 6 hours
After effects
4 - 8 hours

Insufflated
Bioavailability
45%
Threshold
5 mg
Light
10 - 30 mg
Common
30 - 75 mg
Strong
75 - 150 mg
Heavy
150 mg +
Duration
Total
1 - 2 hours
Onset
5 - 10 minutes
Come up
10 - 20 minutes
Peak
15 - 45 minutes
Offset
30 - 60 minutes
After effects
2 - 12 hours

Rectal Ketamine Dosages
by body weightapprox total
Threshold.3 mg / lb40 - 50 mg
Light.6 mg / lb50 - 100 mg
Common.75 - 2 mg / lb75 - 300 mg
Strong1.5 - 2.5 mg / lb200 - 450 mg
The K Hole3 - 4 mg / lb500 + mg

Onset : 5 - 20 minutes
Peak : 30 - 60 minutes
Duration : 1 - 2 hours
Normal After Effects : 1 - 4 hours

​

​ I.M. Ketamine Dosages by body weight approx total Threshold .1 mg / lb 10 - 15 mg Light .15 mg / lb 15 - 30 mg Common .2 mg / lb 25 - 50 mg Strong .5 mg / lb 40 - 100 mg The K Hole .75 mg / lb 60 - 125 mg Anaesthetic 1 mg / lb 100 - 200 mg

Onset : 1 - 5 minutes (depending on dose and injection location) Duration : 30 - 60 minutes Normal After Effects : 2 - 4 hours I.V. Ketamine Dosages Anaesthetic1 - 4.5 mg/kg body Onset : 1 - 4 minutes (depending on dose and injection location) Duration : 30 - 60 minutes Normal After Effects : 2 - 4 hours

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Ok, I’ll bite: what IS it about k that is making it so attractive to the younger crowd these days? I mean, it’s not as portable as e pills were, to bring to a rave/festival or whatever, it’s powder and you’ve got to do bumps off keys. When I was doing it, a long long time ago, it was always in conjunction with MDMA, and it did seem to synergize nicely there (although I’d have to try it again for…research purposes…hehehe) but I’ve never tried it by itself.

Maybe I should?

 

[deficiT]

Ok, I’ll bite: what IS it about k that is making it so attractive to the younger crowd these days? I mean, it’s not as portable as e pills were, to bring to a rave/festival or whatever, it’s powder and you’ve got to do bumps off keys. When I was doing it, a long long time ago, it was always in conjunction with MDMA, and it did seem to synergize nicely there (although I’d have to try it again for…research purposes…hehehe) but I’ve never tried it by itself.

Maybe I should?

They don't call it psychedelic heroin for nothing. People like to feel numb. It feels better than alcohol and has less of a hangover than alcohol or MDMA.

Just spitballing here.

 

[deficiT]

It's also literally a potent antidepressant so (even unknowingly) it could be helping people with their depression.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

They don't call it psychedelic heroin for nothing. People like to feel numb. It feels better than alcohol and has less of a hangover than alcohol or MDMA.

Just spitballing here.

I consider "numb" rather inaccurate description of what happens when ketamine shuts off the me-continuum-illusion.
While that claim of mine is 50 % being pedantic, it is 50 % important point and something which puts it on its own distinct category from benzos, opiates etc. along with cannabis, which does not offer relief by primary numbing

 

[deficiT]

I consider "numb" rather inaccurate description of what happens when ketamine shuts off the me-continuum-illusion.
While that claim of mine is 50 % being pedantic, it is 50 % important point and something which puts it on its own distinct category from benzos, opiates etc. along with cannabis, which does not offer relief by primary numbing

I think that's 100% you being pedantic lol sorry but when you take ketamine you stop feeling your body. That's numb. Yeah there's a psychedelic aspect to it but in standard doses, yeah ketamine numbs you out.

 

[deficiT]

It's literally an anaesthetic, that is what medical professionals use to numb people

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Yes it is definitely also numbing agent
I just do not consider it the primary route of "relief", while playing some part of it
Might be also we have different connotations for the word "numbing" (well, we also speak different damn languages, so, it is inevitable)
I guess I could spiral into different connotations like fractal forever, but it does not mean you are wrong, to be precise, I am sorry for my inaccurate wording

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Well, that philosophicated quickly
"is it numbness to get break of the false sense of separateness our brains derive or is it numbness to experience false sense of separateness"

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

and that was largely irrelevant of your point, I admit it and I would word my point differently now if we had this conversation again

 

[deficiT]

and that was largely irrelevant of your point, I admit it and I would word my point differently now if we had this conversation again

Hey i thought it was a cool conversation, and you're right it's interesting to think about how things are conveyed in different languages that just don't sync with each other, so every language is special in its own way.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I am behind my defensive cover person with high sense of responsibility and delicateness
Largely developed as response to feel of guilt

 

[arrall]

less of a hangover

Rather than a hangover, it actually has an afterglow in my experience

 

[deficiT]

Rather than a hangover, it actually has an afterglow in my experience

Absolutely it's glorious

 

[VerbalTruist]

Rather than a hangover, it actually has an afterglow in my experience

The anti-depressants effects last for 3 to 4 weeks after a hole. The next day is nice but not being in a bad place mentally for a weeks is amazing.

 

[G_Chem]

They don't call it psychedelic heroin for nothing. People like to feel numb. It feels better than alcohol and has less of a hangover than alcohol or MDMA.

Just spitballing here.

Folks often call it “nosebeers” too.


Ketamine is popular because yes at first you feel an afterglow until you really begin abusing it. I think it also has to do with the current social atmosphere, kids want to be numbed out not tuned in.

Then there is availability. And finally, so many people are on SSRI or related medications. This gets in the way of rolling proper, but K works just fine.

I do really miss the MDMA and LSD primarily being used. Out west that was the only thing I enjoyed over the Midwest, the lack of K. I remember one festival not a soul had any, that’s unheard of in the Midwest. Chicago and NY are major hubs for it.

-GC

 

[tryptakid]

Ketamine can be briefly magical, and also incredibly destructive. What are we going to do with the generation of people who start taking ketamine for depression (because instagram told them to) and it really works (until tolerance sets in) and now they can't go back on oxycodone to kill the suffering, they can't take enough adderall to stimulate them to focus on working away the suffering, the medical marijuana isn't enough to take it away, and the ketamine stops working.

Maybe do less drugs. As your therapist, that's what I'd recommend. It's what I try to tell myself as well. Keep them for special, and recreational purposes only.

 

[VerbalTruist]

Ketamine can be briefly magical, and also incredibly destructive. What are we going to do with the generation of people who start taking ketamine for depression (because instagram told them to) and it really works (until tolerance sets in) and now they can't go back on oxycodone to kill the suffering, they can't take enough adderall to stimulate them to focus on working away the suffering, the medical marijuana isn't enough to take it away, and the ketamine stops working.

Maybe do less drugs. As your therapist, that's what I'd recommend. It's what I try to tell myself as well. Keep them for special, and recreational purposes only.

People have been numbing themselves for the entirety of existence at this point. Hopefully, they’ll go back to destructive drinking like in the late-1800s? No, that doesn’t sound good, but history repeats itself. It will be something, I’d bet nearly anything on it.

 

[psychoblast]

Ok, I’ll bite: what IS it about k that is making it so attractive to the younger crowd these days? I mean, it’s not as portable as e pills were, to bring to a rave/festival or whatever, it’s powder and you’ve got to do bumps off keys. When I was doing it, a long long time ago, it was always in conjunction with MDMA, and it did seem to synergize nicely there (although I’d have to try it again for…research purposes…hehehe) but I’ve never tried it by itself.

Maybe I should?

I didn't get the appeal either when I was raving 20 years ago. Some one would offer me some coming down of my roll and I tried it a few times and never saw big deal. Then some friends convinced me to do ketamine by itself one day just chilling at home, and to go into k-hole. It was just a super profound experience. I felt like the three of us holing together were sharing a brain or sense of self. We began talking and finishing each other's sentences.

When you think about it, disassociation means you no longer associate with your individual self, and you then can re-associate with a group mentality almost like a Jungian collective subconscious becoming conscious. That's what it seemed like that day.

Since then I played with it a lot by itself, and I found another aspect of disassociation was that I could start to see the parts of my body as separate entities, like each cell has it's own brain (nucleus), and different parts of the body have their own part of the brain that represents them, kind of like certain senators in Congress represent a particular state, and we don't normally think of ourselves as a democracy of neurons, versus a single consciousness, but there is some deep truth to that view.

In particular, I find it useful therapeutically when combined with other holistic practices. I had a shoulder and neck injury after an auto accident that would not heal, was very stuck. One day on a high ketamine does, I did a "deep dive" into that part of my body, testing all limits to my range of motion, digging very far into the tissues to explore the painful areas, outline them, manipulate them, etc. after 30 minuets, it all released and I could turn my head again and rotate my shoulder. 30 minutes on ketamine fixed what 4 months of physical therapy did not make a dent in.

I've also done ketamine while practicing yoga which has been very profound. Now this is an odd one because often a higher ketamine dose will leave you stumbling and out of balance and totally unable to do yoga. However, I've found that if I enter the K-space while moving about, and gradually, I bypass that and enter a place where my anxieties are suppressed but my kinesthetic movements are actually better, I have balance like a jungle cat, can do yoga moves with the complete range of motion and opening intentions on a level I cannot match when sober. It's like a lot of psychedelics, where setting and intention make a world of difference to the experience.

It's definitely a psychedelic worth exploring, up there with shrooms and acid, with the huge plus that it lasts such a short amount of time. I rarely have time to commit to an acid trip, or even a shroom trip.

~psychoblast~

 

[ColoradoOpiateGirl]

I didn't get the appeal either when I was raving 20 years ago. Some one would offer me some coming down of my roll and I tried it a few times and never saw big deal. Then some friends convinced me to do ketamine by itself one day just chilling at home, and to go into k-hole. It was just a super profound experience. I felt like the three of us holing together were sharing a brain or sense of self. We began talking and finishing each other's sentences.

When you think about it, disassociation means you no longer associate with your individual self, and you then can re-associate with a group mentality almost like a Jungian collective subconscious becoming conscious. That's what it seemed like that day.

Since then I played with it a lot by itself, and I found another aspect of disassociation was that I could start to see the parts of my body as separate entities, like each cell has it's own brain (nucleus), and different parts of the body have their own part of the brain that represents them, kind of like certain senators in Congress represent a particular state, and we don't normally think of ourselves as a democracy of neurons, versus a single consciousness, but there is some deep truth to that view.

In particular, I find it useful therapeutically when combined with other holistic practices. I had a shoulder and neck injury after an auto accident that would not heal, was very stuck. One day on a high ketamine does, I did a "deep dive" into that part of my body, testing all limits to my range of motion, digging very far into the tissues to explore the painful areas, outline them, manipulate them, etc. after 30 minuets, it all released and I could turn my head again and rotate my shoulder. 30 minutes on ketamine fixed what 4 months of physical therapy did not make a dent in.

I've also done ketamine while practicing yoga which has been very profound. Now this is an odd one because often a higher ketamine dose will leave you stumbling and out of balance and totally unable to do yoga. However, I've found that if I enter the K-space while moving about, and gradually, I bypass that and enter a place where my anxieties are suppressed but my kinesthetic movements are actually better, I have balance like a jungle cat, can do yoga moves with the complete range of motion and opening intentions on a level I cannot match when sober. It's like a lot of psychedelics, where setting and intention make a world of difference to the experience.

It's definitely a psychedelic worth exploring, up there with shrooms and acid, with the huge plus that it lasts such a short amount of time. I rarely have time to commit to an acid trip, or even a shroom trip.

~psychoblast~

As a massage therapist, I enjoyed reading your deep self massage session. So glad you experienced relief!