Buprenorphine how many times can I dose 2mg a day to maximize norbupe recreational potential (please continue reading below the poll)

[SirSalty]

Hi guys,

I have used the search function and read everything I can find about this subject on Reddit, Bluelight and the wider internet but I can't seem to find the answer.

I get prescribed 8mg Subutex a day and I split that into four 2mg doses as I read 2mg is the best dose for Norbupe active recreational effects.

I insufflate (snort) 2mg four times (1mg per nostril) a day with 3-4 hours between each dose and that 'seems' to work well but I don't know if that's just a placebo effect or not.

I just want to get as much norbupe as possible in my system and as little regular bupe in my system to maximize recreational potential.

All I can find is that 2mg or less is the best dose.. I can't find out how often you can use doses like this for maximum effect. I would have thought this would have been discussed already but I've been searching with my GoogleFu and duckduckgo search function to try to find the answer for the past week.

Please keep in mind I know next to nothing about chemistry or biology so please do explain to me like I'm 5 years old.

I honestly have looked everywhere I can think of for this answer and I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up like this before. I understand that bupe is a complex drug with complex mechanisms but I know there are some brilliant people on here who may be able to answer (or at least to the best of their abilities and/or with at least some anecdotal experience)

Thanks for reading and hi! I'm newly registered but have enjoyed this forum as a non contributor for a while.

I appreciate any and all friendly answers.

Many thanks

Edit to add: Sorry if I posted this in the wrong forum please feel free to move it mods but please don't close the thread as I think it could be a really valuable discussion that as of yet hasn't been discussed in this context.

Surely I'm not the only person interested in this wider question?

Also I don't want to take an inhibitor to enhance effects as I am worried this could be dangerous and lead to an overdose.

Anyway many thanks for reading guys and I look forward to the discussion. I love opiates but had to quit heroin and shooting in general as it was destroying my life.

Just in case it's relevant I take 35mg of diazepam (Valium) twice a week and around 800mg of pregablin (Lyrica) a day the other 5 days of the week. I also take Lamotrigine (lamictal I believe?) Every day 75mg twice a day and Olanzapine 5mg at night and an antihistamine off label sleeping pill called promethazine 25mg twice at night.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I'm a big guy (muscle and fat) and I have bipolar disorder with cycles of depression and mania so it's hard for me to properly judge the effects of drugs anecdotally as my illness can get triggered by anything (especially chemicals) and I end up with mania which is essentially just a surge of dopamine (I know right.. lucky me free drugs but it's not always appropriate to essentially be on cocaine or speed lol!) . My bipolar also causes me hypergraphia and I end up typing LOADS of nonsense like I'm doing now lol.. so anyway.

Please keep the discussion civil I've seen some bad behaviour and manners on this site before and it's a shame although I understand it is the internet xD I eagerly await your responses!

Thanks guys

 

[G_Chem]

Alright so I didn’t respond above cuz I felt my answer better here.

I’ve experimented heavily with this. In general, rule of thumb. The less doses in a day the more euphoria. That said simultaneously more withdrawal like feelings right before your next dose. It’s a give and take. That’s why I’ve learned to hate opiates, you only feel good on them when you’re craving them.

I started at once a day, that was too up and down for me. Moved to twice a day for years and definitely had the most recreational times then. Slowly moved to 3 for the steadied effect. Now I’m on 4 for the even steadier effect. But with each increase in dosage I’ve felt less recreational effects.

Times where I’ve switched down on my dosing, I notice an increase in positive effects but at the cost of feeling like shit sometimes.

I’ve also found I feel better if I’m either going up or tapering down, but if I sit on a dosage too long I start to just feel blah. Can’t explain that one.

-GC

 

[SirSalty]

Alright so I didn’t respond above cuz I felt my answer better here.

I’ve experimented heavily with this. In general, rule of thumb. The less doses in a day the more euphoria. That said simultaneously more withdrawal like feelings right before your next dose. It’s a give and take. That’s why I’ve learned to hate opiates, you only feel good on them when you’re craving them.

I started at once a day, that was too up and down for me. Moved to twice a day for years and definitely had the most recreational times then. Slowly moved to 3 for the steadied effect. Now I’m on 4 for the even steadier effect. But with each increase in dosage I’ve felt less recreational effects.

Times where I’ve switched down on my dosing, I notice an increase in positive effects but at the cost of feeling like shit sometimes.

I’ve also found I feel better if I’m either going up or tapering down, but if I sit on a dosage too long I start to just feel blah. Can’t explain that one.

-GC

Thanks for your response mate it's much appreciated. I'm trying to work out what works best for me but it's hard to gauge.

Do you think if I dosed 3 times a day (or even 2) instead of 4 while keeping the same total daily dose it could work? Or would taking more than 2mg each time counter the recreational effects?

I'm so confused about how to go about it. I AM on it for maintenance so it's definitely not the end of the world if I have to forgo some recreational effects for stability benefits.

I'd just love to know what the 'sweet spot' is or the best dosing schedule but I guess it's not only hard to say it's also probably quite different for everyone.

I'm also in two minds about whether I should plug it or not. Maybe around 2.6mg plugged 3 times a day could work and be a happy medium between 2mg and 4mg.

I guess I'm just going to have to experiment but I'd love to hear replies from more people.

Many thanks for your response it's much appreciated

 

[G_Chem]

My sweet spot is 2 or 3 personally, I’ve been wanting to get back down to 3 but it’s almost like tapering even if you keep the dosage the same. At least the dose I’m on (1mg.)

1 a day is too unstable, and 4 a day is too often to give decent recreational effects. Which when I say that I mean that first couple of hours you take your dose and feel that mild opiate euphoria..

-GC

 

[SirSalty]

My sweet spot is 2 or 3 personally, I’ve been wanting to get back down to 3 but it’s almost like tapering even if you keep the dosage the same. At least the dose I’m on (1mg.)

1 a day is too unstable, and 4 a day is too often to give decent recreational effects. Which when I say that I mean that first couple of hours you take your dose and feel that mild opiate euphoria..

-GC

I'm going to do some experimenting over the next couple weeks and I'll report back here hopefully someone will find this thread useful in the future. I'm honestly surprised this aspect of norbupe dosing hasn't been discussed at length online before (at least from what I can see).

Tomorrow I'm gonna split my 8mg into 3 doses then the next day try 2 doses and try to observe how it effects me.

Then later I'll try the same but with plugging rather than snorting. I wonder how much this all hinges on a person's individual make up and biology. Also I'm worried about giving myself the placebo effect lol.

To be clear are you on 8mg total daily also? Just so I can gauge how much you're taking when you change the frequency of your dosing.

 

[G_Chem]

I'm going to do some experimenting over the next couple weeks and I'll report back here hopefully someone will find this thread useful in the future. I'm honestly surprised this aspect of norbupe dosing hasn't been discussed at length online before (at least from what I can see).

Tomorrow I'm gonna split my 8mg into 3 doses then the next day try 2 doses and try to observe how it effects me.

Then later I'll try the same but with plugging rather than snorting. I wonder how much this all hinges on a person's individual make up and biology. Also I'm worried about giving myself the placebo effect lol.

To be clear are you on 8mg total daily also? Just so I can gauge how much you're taking when you change the frequency of your dosing.

I’ve tried to discuss this in the past but no one seemed to care. I agree it’s an interesting factor in buprenorphines overall effects.

I take 1mg a day, so much less than you. But have been as high as 6mg a day at a point. I’ve been on Suboxone since 2008 or so.

I also recommend if you use sublingually, to do so with a relatively dry mouth, and not eat or drink for an hour afterwards. Makes a huge difference IMO, if you don’t already…

-GC

 

[SirSalty]

I’ve tried to discuss this in the past but no one seemed to care. I agree it’s an interesting factor in buprenorphines overall effects.

I take 1mg a day, so much less than you. But have been as high as 6mg a day at a point. I’ve been on Suboxone since 2008 or so.

I also recommend if you use sublingually, to do so with a relatively dry mouth, and not eat or drink for an hour afterwards. Makes a huge difference IMO, if you don’t already…

-GC

Wow 1ml a day that's great man! Congratulations!

I wonder how that impacts me though given your experiences and my much higher dose. Maybe we can't draw any correlation because of it. I'm surprised this topic isn't talked about more.

So from what I can gather I shouldn't be taking (much) more than 2mg each dose to get the norbupe.. but that would mean dosing 4 times a day.

So maybe for me the sweet spot will be splitting the 8mg into 3 doses and going from there with 2.6mg(ish) doses 3 times a day.

This is frustrating me and I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around it. I guess I'm just gonna have to do some experiments and try to publish the results here if they make any sense.

I imagine two 4mg doses a day would be too much to get the norbupe I'm after but maybe three 2.66mg doses a day might be the sweet spot.

I guess I won't know until I try!

Thanks for responding mate I'm also still hoping more people can pitch in with their theories and/or anecdotal experience.

 

[RDP89]

@cdin could maybe help you with this as ultra low dose naltrexone could possibly be something that would help with your situation and he seems to know alot about the topic.

 

[SirSalty]

@cdin could maybe help you with this as ultra low dose naltrexone could possibly be something that would help with your situation and he seems to know alot about the topic.

Thanks mate hopefully they respond as that sounds interesting

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I think norbupe is a myth.
Not in the sense that it's not active or doesn't exist, but that it's debatable how much norbupe plays a role in bupes pharmacology.

Some sources say norbupe can't really pass the blood-brain-barrier anyway.
Some sources say it is centrally active, but is less potent than bupe & usually blocked by the parent molecule anyway.
In the end, I don't think anyone really knows what dose would be optimal for norbupe, cause there are so many variables.

I think the main reason lower doses feel better is because you will have less receptors occupied & you'll have less bupe in your system in between dosing.
I've taken inhibitors & inducers (cimetidine, saint johns wort) and noticed no difference in effects. Honestly taking saint johns wort with bupe made the bupe feel less euphoric & my mood ended up being flat from the SJW.

Although I've also read that the best way to get anything out of norbupe would be to take micrograms. Like 0.03mg every few hours.
I find buprenorphine to kinda suck for recreational & it's okay for maintenance. I've been on it for 6 years & have found that the constipation from it seems to never wear off like regular opioids do. So over time, my stomach has had to readjust & now I have all kinds of digestive problems from it. At least when I used heroin, it was worn off & detached from the receptors in my intestines when I woke up the next day. But with bupe, that basically never gets a chance to happen.

I think norbupe must play some slight role in lower doses because supposedly buprenorphine itself causes no respiratory depression, yet I remember in my beginning days of taking subs, I would get shallow breathing & nods & genuinely feel like I was gonna pass out & stop breathing, some times. So the only thing that could cause that would be norbupe, I would think. Although there have been times where I was maintaining on low doses & would take 12mg or 16mg & suddenly feel good & buzzed & even a little noddy. But surely it wasn't the norbupe at play there because it would have been blocked by the bupe.

It was enjoyable when I had no tolerance & was cheaper than getting heroin. But after using it for a few months on the street, I discovered I couldn't sleep without it & would have hand tremors & severe depression, insomnia & sweating whenever I didn't have any. So eventually I had to go get on it legally & have been on it ever since for 6 years.

Only way I could see bupe having ANY recreational potential is if you're able to put 4-5 days in between your dosing. It's the only way. But for junkies like me who need an opioid everyday, trying to go 5 days without any is almost impossible.

I use to be able to use tramadol for a few days & I always found that it took about 4-5 days of using 400mg of tramadol, before 2-4mg of buprenorphine could give me any kind of warm fuzzies or euphoria again. So it is a very hard drug to keep for strictly recreational purposes because you will get adjusted to it with daily repeated dosing & then the ceiling effect won't allow for any added effects once you pass it's threshold.

There use to be a time where .5mg-1mg would have me blasted all day. So if you take 1-2mg 3x a day, then it's quickly gonna build up to the ceiling effect.
Overall I find buprenorohine gets rid of my insomnia, gets rid of my desire to drink, but also blunts me emotionally & mentally in a way that full agonists don't. Which can be unenjoyable.

On a scale of 1-10, with codeine & weak opioids being at 1 & heroin being at 10, I'd put buprenorphine at about a 4.
It's technically much stronger than tramadol, but I think I've even had more enjoyable & euphoric experiences on tramadol than I have on bupe.
I was able to get 10 magical years out of tramadol use (of course I had to withdrawal every month of those 10 years too), but with bupe, the magic was gone within in the first year of using all the time I'd say.

 

[cdin]

ok, so - you have a LOT of medications on board. calcium, channel agents, antpsychotics, benzos, opioids. I'm unclear as to what your goal is here? do you want to reduce or eliminate usage, or just "get more" out of bupe.
if it is the latter - IME there just isn't more to "Get" out of bupe. the partial agonist nature, long come up and ceiling effect basically make it not something you can use to get high unless you take waaay too much and then it's,
just unpleasant. I think only completely opioid niave folx with a particular chemistry get a "good" bupe experience. I personally can't stand it.
If i were you, I would want to get onto a normal opioid like oxycodone (easier said than done i know), or as a last resort methadone.. id want to quit the lyrica entirely -- that isn't something you need to be on, it's for nerve pain and just potentiating the gaba stew you've got going.
i would certainly stop taking the olanzapine "off label" for sleep because of the risk of tardive dyskenesia and other problems.
so assuming we are down to the valium and a regular opioid -- do you just want to be stable and on that? because that is possible, and if so ultra low dose naltrexone and black seed oil can help. But if that is not possible and you want off, I would titrate down as low as possible on the benzos and opioids and do an ibogaine session, hopefully kick the opioids outright and just ease my way out of the benzos over the next month riding the noribogaine wave from a flood.
That's just what i would do. I'm not a doctor, this is not medical advice. just a person who has been in similar situations.

 

[SirSalty]

ok, so - you have a LOT of medications on board. calcium, channel agents, antpsychotics, benzos, opioids. I'm unclear as to what your goal is here? do you want to reduce or eliminate usage, or just "get more" out of bupe.
if it is the latter - IME there just isn't more to "Get" out of bupe. the partial agonist nature, long come up and ceiling effect basically make it not something you can use to get high unless you take waaay too much and then it's,
just unpleasant. I think only completely opioid niave folx with a particular chemistry get a "good" bupe experience. I personally can't stand it.
If i were you, I would want to get onto a normal opioid like oxycodone (easier said than done i know), or as a last resort methadone.. id want to quit the lyrica entirely -- that isn't something you need to be on, it's for nerve pain and just potentiating the gaba stew you've got going.
i would certainly stop taking the olanzapine "off label" for sleep because of the risk of tardive dyskenesia and other problems.
so assuming we are down to the valium and a regular opioid -- do you just want to be stable and on that? because that is possible, and if so ultra low dose naltrexone and black seed oil can help. But if that is not possible and you want off, I would titrate down as low as possible on the benzos and opioids and do an ibogaine session, hopefully kick the opioids outright and just ease my way out of the benzos over the next month riding the noribogaine wave from a flood.
That's just what i would do. I'm not a doctor, this is not medical advice. just a person who has been in similar situations.

Thanks for your in-depth response!

I need the antipsychotics, mood stabilizers and benzos for my mental health I've got severe bipolar disorder and generalised anxiety disorder (that's what the benzos and pregablin are for) all the substances I've mentioned I get prescribed legally by my doctor which is incredible because I live in the UK and have been on valium for a few years now (although I think a clerical error made them give me it for too long and they just had to keep giving me them because of the addiction rather than admitting they fucked up lol)

I recently went down a dose on my olanzapine (5mg per day) so I really hope I don't get any of the many complications you can get from them. I could stop taking them and stick to my mood stabilizers (lamotragine or I think you guys call it lamictal) but then I'd be prone to severe hypomania. The lamotragine REALLY helps with the suicidal aspect of bipolar though and the olanzapine helps a lot with my mania and racing thoughts.

I wish I wasn't on so much medication but I do need it otherwise I end up very poorly. The subutex on the other hand I'm going to be weaning off of soon. I was on 80ml of methadone a day not too long ago and got down to 30ml then switched to my current 8mg per day dose of Subutex.

My goal was to basically try to enjoy the subutex as much as possible so I steer clear of alcohol and cannabis (weed is really bad for my mental health personally speaking).

I've been experimenting the past few days with different dosing schedules but from my experience and what you guys have said I think I'm just gonna end up plugging the whole 8mg a day at once or snorting it not sure yet I just know sublingual wasn't cutting it.

I do plan to be off of Subutex by the end of the year but I have no plans for getting off of the psychiatric medication I'm on. I REALLY hope I don't get any complications from them long-term or at least minimal complications.

You guys have been very friendly and helpful I really appreciate it thank you for taking the time

I will keep experimenting then perhaps come back here and update the thread.

Thanks!

 

[SirSalty]

I think norbupe is a myth.
Not in the sense that it's not active or doesn't exist, but that it's debatable how much norbupe plays a role in bupes pharmacology.

Some sources say norbupe can't really pass the blood-brain-barrier anyway.
Some sources say it is centrally active, but is less potent than bupe & usually blocked by the parent molecule anyway.
In the end, I don't think anyone really knows what dose would be optimal for norbupe, cause there are so many variables.

I think the main reason lower doses feel better is because you will have less receptors occupied & you'll have less bupe in your system in between dosing.
I've taken inhibitors & inducers (cimetidine, saint johns wort) and noticed no difference in effects. Honestly taking saint johns wort with bupe made the bupe feel less euphoric & my mood ended up being flat from the SJW.

Although I've also read that the best way to get anything out of norbupe would be to take micrograms. Like 0.03mg every few hours.
I find buprenorphine to kinda suck for recreational & it's okay for maintenance. I've been on it for 6 years & have found that the constipation from it seems to never wear off like regular opioids do. So over time, my stomach has had to readjust & now I have all kinds of digestive problems from it. At least when I used heroin, it was worn off & detached from the receptors in my intestines when I woke up the next day. But with bupe, that basically never gets a chance to happen.

I think norbupe must play some slight role in lower doses because supposedly buprenorphine itself causes no respiratory depression, yet I remember in my beginning days of taking subs, I would get shallow breathing & nods & genuinely feel like I was gonna pass out & stop breathing, some times. So the only thing that could cause that would be norbupe, I would think. Although there have been times where I was maintaining on low doses & would take 12mg or 16mg & suddenly feel good & buzzed & even a little noddy. But surely it wasn't the norbupe at play there because it would have been blocked by the bupe.

It was enjoyable when I had no tolerance & was cheaper than getting heroin. But after using it for a few months on the street, I discovered I couldn't sleep without it & would have hand tremors & severe depression, insomnia & sweating whenever I didn't have any. So eventually I had to go get on it legally & have been on it ever since for 6 years.

Only way I could see bupe having ANY recreational potential is if you're able to put 4-5 days in between your dosing. It's the only way. But for junkies like me who need an opioid everyday, trying to go 5 days without any is almost impossible.

I use to be able to use tramadol for a few days & I always found that it took about 4-5 days of using 400mg of tramadol, before 2-4mg of buprenorphine could give me any kind of warm fuzzies or euphoria again. So it is a very hard drug to keep for strictly recreational purposes because you will get adjusted to it with daily repeated dosing & then the ceiling effect won't allow for any added effects once you pass it's threshold.

There use to be a time where .5mg-1mg would have me blasted all day. So if you take 1-2mg 3x a day, then it's quickly gonna build up to the ceiling effect.
Overall I find buprenorohine gets rid of my insomnia, gets rid of my desire to drink, but also blunts me emotionally & mentally in a way that full agonists don't. Which can be unenjoyable.

On a scale of 1-10, with codeine & weak opioids being at 1 & heroin being at 10, I'd put buprenorphine at about a 4.
It's technically much stronger than tramadol, but I think I've even had more enjoyable & euphoric experiences on tramadol than I have on bupe.
I was able to get 10 magical years out of tramadol use (of course I had to withdrawal every month of those 10 years too), but with bupe, the magic was gone within in the first year of using all the time I'd say.

Thank you so much for your reply! I'm starting to think maybe I should just use it as a maintenance drug and I'm definitely not going to be on it longer than a year or two. I was on 80ml of methadone recently and titrated down to 30ml a day then switched to Subutex.

I haven't had illicit opiates or used any needles for a long time over a year although I have snorted coke and smoked crack cocaine a few times..

I've mainly had a problem with weed and drinking recently especially the weed. It's so bad for my Bipolar disorder but it really helps in the short term. The day afterwards I always notice my mood dip though.

I'm gonna carry on experimenting but I do suspect I'll just end up plugging 8ml of Subutex a day as that seems to be the most sensible, effective, and stable way to take it as a maintenance drug but should also kick in faster/harder than sublingual and less damaging than snorting a huge ass pill every day.

I'll probably come back with my results!

Thank you so much for your time and patience guys and thank you for your well thought-out response mate

 

[SirSalty]

I've gotta say you guys and this community in general are great! I've used this site unregistered for years now and gotten a lot of useful information!

I was a bit worried an asshat would come in and ruin the vibe like I've seen on so many threads but the response has been amazing!

I'm so glad I posted this thread I've gotten so much out of it already. You guys have really helped me think this all through and that coupled with my own experiments/experiences are going to help me put this issue to bed.

I've been wondering about this since I was put on the Subutex and was so surprised that the issue hasn't been discussed in this context or at least in-depth here or on Reddit before!

Subutex is doing really well for me as a maintenance drug I was just hoping to get 'more' out of it so that I hopefully end up smoking less weed and drinking less but over time my self-control and restraint for these substances is getting better!

I want to eventually just be on the (admittedly a lot of) legal medication I'm prescribed and no illicit substances or alcohol.

Alcohol is probably the worst drug all things considered, at least in my opinion. I've seen it completely destroy lives and kill so many people I've lost count. I think I've known maybe around 10 people die from alcoholism a few of them very close to me

I've had a very hard few years but I'm still going strong on the path to recovery thank God!

God bless you all and thank you so much for your lengthy, in-depth and well thought-out replies!

I hope you all have a great day

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm very glad you joined and had a good experience. Bluelight isn't totally free from asshats, but it's been my experience that we have a much friendlier community and higher quality of discussion here than most other places on the Internet.

I am on bupe, too, and I find it quite mysterious. I used to find it quite recreational, but once I got a prescription and took it every day, that disappeared. I'm also on 8mg a day. I take it twice a day, 4mg and 4mg. But I am reducing. In the past, I have always gotten the most out of it when I started with 2mg, and then added 1mg redoses once or twice in the day after that.

I find buprenorphine to kinda suck for recreational & it's okay for maintenance. I've been on it for 6 years & have found that the constipation from it seems to never wear off like regular opioids do. So over time, my stomach has had to readjust & now I have all kinds of digestive problems from it. At least when I used heroin, it was worn off & detached from the receptors in my intestines when I woke up the next day. But with bupe, that basically never gets a chance to happen.

I had the same experience, and then I started taking a tablespoon of psyllium husk powder every morning. Seriously it's been nothing short of transformational. The constipation is a thing of the past, I have completely normal bowel movements as if I wasn't on an opioid. Every morning after I wake up I have a full one, easily. Sometimes even again. No pain, no digestive problems. Plus it has a large percentage of your dietary fiber needs for the day.

 

[kjs487]

Some days I feel very alone, since on the surface it seems you are the only junkie around. 12 step groups are embarrassing to me so it helps me feel less hopeless as well. Thank you all

 

[SirSalty]

Hey guys I've done some experimenting now and I've come to the personal conclusion that it's simply better to take my whole dose for the day plugged in one go.

Snorting provides a quicker more intense 'buzz' but leads to me wanting more and more as I believe it reinforces addictive behaviour.

Plugging is good because of the higher bioavailability and satisfies me more. I seem to notice more of a relaxed body sensation and a mental calming effect compared to snorting varying amounts in varying frequencies and doses.

At the end of the day I'm on subutex for a reason I really hate what opiates have done to my life and I'm well on the road to recovery. Not long ago I was on 80ml of methadone a day which is a lot and got down to 30ml then switched to the subutex and I'm only on 8mg a day.

I'm gonna stabilise on this dose plugged every day till I'm not smoking weed or drinking anymore (or at least a LOT less) then I'm going to start slowly weaning off of the subutex.

I have high hopes for the future and my recovery. I've been interested in trying out kratom as I feel like I might need 'something' for the rest of my life and I'd rather it be something natural than a low dose of methadone or Subutex.

The problem is I have some old nagging injuries causing me pain now I'm on a much lower dose of opiate substitute(s). Naproxen works well but I don't want to take it every day for fear of stomach issues and same for paracetamol (acetaminophen) regarding the liver. Cannabis helps the pain a lot but negatively impacts my mental health.. drinking obviously helps a lot but is incredibly unhealthy to drink every day at the levels I would need to for pain relief.

I'm already on enough decent drugs from the doctors so I should just be happy with what I've got and focus on my long-term recovery without trying to get high and thereby reinforcing my addictive tendencies.

I really want to try kratom but don't know where to start or even when to start. I don't know how it will react with the subutex and whether or not I should wait till I'm on a lower dose or none at all?

I'd love some advice on how I could/should proceed regarding this as I've provided a lot of info in this thread about my personal situation and I think you guys could still help me out a lot with this.

Should I bother trying kratom? If so what type and what to expect? What dose and frequency and method of ingestion?

My main priorities and reasons for exploring it are primarily pain relief, sense of wellbeing, help abstaining from opiates and other drugs and generally keeping me in recovery.

There should be all the information you guys need regarding myself in this thread for you to inform me.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond you've all helped me come to this decision and I'm happy with it. Mods I'm sorry to derail the thread a bit and go off topic but please keep it up as I could really do with some advice about kratom especially in light of everything about this thread.

Hopefully this thread helps not only me but others in the future too!

Many thanks guys and God bless

 

[SirSalty]

Some days I feel very alone, since on the surface it seems you are the only junkie around. 12 step groups are embarrassing to me so it helps me feel less hopeless as well. Thank you all

I can relate to you mate and I'm sure a lot of us can. This site is amazing and has a great community full of brilliant people. The staff are amazing too.

I really can't stress enough how much this site has helped me in the past and I'm glad I finally joined up so I can start contributing.

To think this site offers so much value to so many people and it's all free! I've lost count of how many times I've searched something like "blah blah blah drug blah bluelight Reddit" and the answer has not only been here but people dive even deeper than I originally expected!

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm very glad you joined and had a good experience. Bluelight isn't totally free from asshats, but it's been my experience that we have a much friendlier community and higher quality of discussion here than most other places on the Internet.

I am on bupe, too, and I find it quite mysterious. I used to find it quite recreational, but once I got a prescription and took it every day, that disappeared. I'm also on 8mg a day. I take it twice a day, 4mg and 4mg. But I am reducing. In the past, I have always gotten the most out of it when I started with 2mg, and then added 1mg redoses once or twice in the day after that.



I had the same experience, and then I started taking a tablespoon of psyllium husk powder every morning. Seriously it's been nothing short of transformational. The constipation is a thing of the past, I have completely normal bowel movements as if I wasn't on an opioid. Every morning after I wake up I have a full one, easily. Sometimes even again. No pain, no digestive problems. Plus it has a large percentage of your dietary fiber needs for the day.

Psyllium husk killed my mom.
It's actually dangerous to take psyllium husk for chronic constipation, especially opioid constipation because it can bulk up your stool & make it even bigger & harder.
My mom was on cancer treatment & kept getting fecal impactions & one day she just tore her colon & they weren't able to operate cause she had no immune system from the cancer treatment & so they stuck her in hospice instead.

It wasn't until after the funeral that I slept in her room & found a big bottle of generic metamucil (pysllium husk) that she had been taking for constipation. This combined with what I've ready about psyllium husk causing fecal impactions in the past, due to bulking up the stool, left me with no doubt in my mind that it contributed to her death. And I wish I had known she was taking it cause I would have told her to go with something like mirilax.

But yeah, I guess every one can be different, but I've avoided anything with psyllium husk or anything that causes more bulking of the stool.

The "constipation" I deal with now isn't actually constipation technically, since I can go every morning when I get up. It's just that my intestines are so slow, that instead of having one or two good bowel movements in the morning, it's spread out more like 4 now since my entire digestive tract just seems like it operates at .5x the speed it use to. It might not even be bupe related for all I know. I should probably get into a doctor about it eventually. It's more like IBS/Chrohns symptoms now. Could have something to do with all the cough syrup, alcohol & pills I've swallowed in my life time too, who knows. But chronic constipation can also lead to things like IBS/Chrohns/Polyps, etc..

 

[SirSalty]

Psyllium husk killed my mom.
It's actually dangerous to take psyllium husk for chronic constipation, especially opioid constipation because it can bulk up your stool & make it even bigger & harder.
My mom was on cancer treatment & kept getting fecal impactions & one day she just tore her colon & they weren't able to operate cause she had no immune system from the cancer treatment & so they stuck her in hospice instead.

It wasn't until after the funeral that I slept in her room & found a big bottle of generic metamucil (pysllium husk) that she had been taking for constipation. This combined with what I've ready about psyllium husk causing fecal impactions in the past, due to bulking up the stool, left me with no doubt in my mind that it contributed to her death. And I wish I had known she was taking it cause I would have told her to go with something like mirilax.

But yeah, I guess every one can be different, but I've avoided anything with psyllium husk or anything that causes more bulking of the stool.

The "constipation" I deal with now isn't actually constipation technically, since I can go every morning when I get up. It's just that my intestines are so slow, that instead of having one or two good bowel movements in the morning, it's spread out more like 4 now since my entire digestive tract just seems like it operates at .5x the speed it use to. It might not even be bupe related for all I know. I should probably get into a doctor about it eventually. It's more like IBS/Chrohns symptoms now. Could have something to do with all the cough syrup, alcohol & pills I've swallowed in my life time too, who knows. But chronic constipation can also lead to things like IBS/Chrohns/Polyps, etc..

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss my best friend killed himself recently and in the past two years a few other friends have died.. I wasn't as close to them as my best mate but close enough to be devastated.

Life can be so tragic sometimes it's too much to deal with.. anyway.. I wish you peace, prosperity and happiness!

If you ever need someone to talk to just send me a message and we can link up on social media messaging and I truly mean that and it's an open-ended offer.. please don't ever feel like you're alone or have no options.