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Recovery The 2022 alcohol support thread

chinup said:
ah right, well, carry on then. ngl i too am partial to the odd pipe of crack.

i was kinda hoping you would say no. not that it would stop you, cos even when i recognise that i drank (my main problem now) on a feeling and the drinking didn't help, it doesn't stop me.

so used to north americans on here that i didn't twig you would actually be from london, like proper london. i am from manc and its actually macmillan i was thinking of. i'm glad you lady is great.

do get yourself some support. i used to do 12 steps, i like some of their ideas but since i lost my clean time and wasn't immediately prostituting myself for crack and picking up needles from the floor again, i realised that clean time != recovery. now i do buddhist stuff, or try to. but i'm out of my meditation groove. you could try SMART? i would suggest drugs services, i had actually useful group therapy (who knew that even existed?!?!) through cgl, but they've used covid as an excuse to go to shit completely. maybe if you have an option other than cgl down there could be worth a look?
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You drinking at the moment?
 
RDP89 said:
This exactly!! It is beyond annoying when “12 steppers” will separate “sober time”/“clean time” from “dry time” like if you’re not actively working the steps somehow your time isn’t the same as theirs. Your coping mechanism/recovery tool isn’t intrinsically more valuable than anyone else’s simply because it’s a quasi-religious “spiritual” program. End rant.
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I've been to AA on and off (mostly off lol) since about 2005. It's not such a quasi-religious thing in Australia, just a very diverse bunch of people in various stages of alcoholism. I had a look at it last year during Covid lockdowns and it seemed pretty dead other than online meetings which I didn't do.

I never did the Steps because hey, nobody got time for that lol. What I mean is I couldn't be bothered (that thing really is a lot of work) plus I never got right into AA. I liked listening to the stories of other fucked up people plus the fact it was a gold coin donation with free tea/coffee and BISCUITS/LOLLIES.

I was completely abstinent for three years (until my brother died and my ex moved my daughter 800km away). But now I feel total abstinence is too much to ask in a country that keeps cracking down on every single thing that might help anxiety/depression/PTSD etc. We can't even import Kratom as of 2020.

Meanwhile the alcohol lobby is a powerful force and we have drive-thru bottleshops, supermarket bottleshops, bottleshops the size of supermarkets, easy delivery, etc etc. So harm minimisation is the way to go.

Lately I've been really trying to learn moderation (which according to AA alcoholics cannot do). Well desperate times call for desperate measures. So I'll buy maybe six beers for the night. That might last two nights. Haven't had a drink in a week now, but I will.

 
Negentropic said:
moderation to me is promising myself I will only drink 12 beers instead of 20

still, difficult
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It's something though. One thing I learned at AA is how much better men's bodies cope with alcohol (I'm assuming you're male just going by avatar). It's not unusual to have women in their 30s at meetings alongside men in their 60s. My body simply can't cope with it in large amounts anymore.

12 beers a day is standard for a lot of men in Australia. If you walk around in the middle of the day drinking a beer people don't think much of it (except police lol).

But alcoholism is such a savage beast you have to walk a fine line between forgiving yourself and just thinking "what the hell".

My dad and his wife like a drink and have one "alcohol free day" a week. They have this "fizzy red wine" (I don't know what the hell it is bc red wine is in a league of it's own for me) and have half a bottle between them before dinner 😐 That's proper moderation but for some of us it's a work-in-progress 😊
 
AbbeyLee said:
It's something though. One thing I learned at AA is how much better men's bodies cope with alcohol (I'm assuming you're male just going by avatar). It's not unusual to have women in their 30s at meetings alongside men in their 60s. My body simply can't cope with it in large amounts anymore.
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define cope?
AbbeyLee said:
My dad and his wife like a drink and have one "alcohol free day" a week. They have this "fizzy red wine" (I don't know what the hell it is bc red wine is in a league of it's own for me) and have half a bottle between them before dinner 😐 That's proper moderation but for some of us it's a work-in-progress 😊
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yeah

like I love 12 beers, can wake up after 8 hours, no hangover, can function 100%

AbbeyLee said:
My dad and his wife like a drink and have one "alcohol free day" a week.
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lol
 
nomorebenzos said:
Haha one time 15 years ago when I was sleeping I puked off the side of my bed directly onto my friends who were passed out on the floor
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Oh yeah plenty of that, minus friends. I try and get it into the bin near my bed. But see I got to a stage last year when nothing stayed down. I'm diabetic so food is pretty important. I knew it was just going to get worse and it's no fun staying out of public in case you crap yourself 😟

That's round the clock drinking -- white wine. Don't know if you guys saw the clip from Leaving Las Vegas in one of the threads about drugs in films, but that is an accurate portrayal of alcoholism.

 
I never got on with AA or NA, I hated the language they used and I hated how they responded to every story in exactly the same way. But I know this...If someone can drink in moderation then they're not an alcoholic, that's what Joe Bloggs does after work, grabs a few cans and goes to bed. He works for 50 years and carries on with those few cans...they're not actually damaging him, he might buy a bottle of rum to celebrate something or if he's feeling down on that particular day. An alcoholic would be worried when the last can arrives where on earth the next one's coming from, and won't sleep until they've exhausted every last possibility money wise or have drank themselves senseless that they no longer think about it...that's an alcoholic. There's no special grey area for someone who could drink loads if they're feeling really down...that's the population of the entire planet. You either fuck yourself up on it as a compulsive involuntary mission, or you don't. There's a clear distinction between the two.
 
Alc.is poison.I remember,when we do an experiment in school.Just some pouring high spirit alc.over the egg.-the egg is precipitating(not sure this is the right word to describe the process)Same alc.do with the cell in your body(especially liver)
 
Sergeant Absent said:
I never got on with AA or NA, I hated the language they used and I hated how they responded to every story in exactly the same way. But I know this...If someone can drink in moderation then they're not an alcoholic, that's what Joe Bloggs does after work, grabs a few cans and goes to bed. He works for 50 years and carries on with those few cans...they're not actually damaging him, he might buy a bottle of rum to celebrate something or if he's feeling down on that particular day. An alcoholic would be worried when the last can arrives where on earth the next one's coming from, and won't sleep until they've exhausted every last possibility money wise or have drank themselves senseless that they no longer think about it...that's an alcoholic. There's no special grey area for someone who could drink loads if they're feeling really down...that's the population of the entire planet. You either fuck yourself up on it as a compulsive involuntary mission, or you don't. There's a clear distinction between the two.
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Well I'm starting to wonder. I'll always be different to Joe Bloggs but I think it's possible to get to a point where you can drink a moderate amount. My main tactic is to be moderate when I buy the stuff because it's pretty likely I'll drink it all. So 6 beers is a good option, or these Jack Daniels spritzer things which come in a 4 pack.

The deadliest thing for me is the wine cask. You can get 4 litres of wine for as low as $10. I did shopping today (past the alcohol emporium) and as I was ready to drive off a man walked past carrying 2 x 4 litre casks (of red). That might last him all year for all I know, but it's a common sight there.
 
AbbeyLee said:
Well I'm starting to wonder. I'll always be different to Joe Bloggs but I think it's possible to get to a point where you can drink a moderate amount. My main tactic is to be moderate when I buy the stuff because it's pretty likely I'll drink it all. So 6 beers is a good option, or these Jack Daniels spritzer things which come in a 4 pack.

The deadliest thing for me is the wine cask. You can get 4 litres of wine for as low as $10. I did shopping today (past the alcohol emporium) and as I was ready to drive off a man walked past carrying 2 x 4 litre casks (of red). That might last him all year for all I know, but it's a common sight there.
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If you can get to a point where you can drink a moderate amount, which of course I hope you do, I think that's amazing and more power to you. I personally could never ever do that. I'm either in or out, no flapping like a duck over water.
 
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Sergeant Absent said:
If you can get to a point where you can drink a moderate amount, which of course I hope you do, I think that's amazing and more power to you. I personally could never ever do that. I'm either in or out, no flapping like a duck over water.
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I don't really want to and I'm under no illusions that it's anything other than self-medication. I really don't do it to have a party, I do it so I'm less likely to be climbing the walls with anxiety at 3am. Like I said, desperate times, desperate measures. I can't get the medical help I need with this. I'm working on other avenues but for the meantime I'll use the shitty stuff if I have to.
 
AbbeyLee said:
I don't really want to and I'm under no illusions that it's anything other than self-medication. I really don't do it to have a party, I do it so I'm less likely to be climbing the walls with anxiety at 3am. Like I said, desperate times, desperate measures. I can't get the medical help I need with this. I'm working on other avenues but for the meantime I'll use the shitty stuff if I have to.
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yup, I agree, a 40mg per day Diazepam repeat prescription plus possibly a 300mg per day Pregabalin repeat prescription would be nicer than driving for beer cans.
 
AbbeyLee said:
I've been to AA on and off (mostly off lol) since about 2005. It's not such a quasi-religious thing in Australia, just a very diverse bunch of people in various stages of alcoholism.
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Oh don’t get me wrong, that’s pretty much what it’s like in the states. Plenty of people will tell you that it doesn’t have to be god just a higher power, it’s spiritual not religious, take what you need and leave the rest, etc., etc.

However all the mental gymnastics in the world doesn’t change the fact that the word “god appears 4 times in the steps themselves, it even says “as we understand HIM”, and it was originally based on the foundations of a Christian group, The Oxford Group. It is at it’s core a quai-religious program. Of course some people don’t use it that way, but I feel that I would be living a lie if I tried to use the steps pretending they’re not based on prayer to a deity as an atheist.

And as far as their “moderation is impossible” stance, that’s clearly a personal thing. I’ve seen horrible alcoholics who were able to moderate. For myself personally though, I’ve decided it’s not likely and not worth continuing to try. I lost too much in the past. Now I’m trying to gain, not lose. But yeah, it can be detrimental to people for sure. Also, the emphasis on clean/sober time and that one drink/drug throws it all away can be very detrimental as well.
 
RDP89 said:
Oh don’t get me wrong, that’s pretty much what it’s like in the states. Plenty of people will tell you that it doesn’t have to be god just a higher power, it’s spiritual not religious, take what you need and leave the rest, etc., etc.

However all the mental gymnastics in the world doesn’t change the fact that the word “god appears 4 times in the steps themselves, it even says “as we understand HIM”, and it was originally based on the foundations of a Christian group, The Oxford Group. It is at it’s core a quai-religious program. Of course some people don’t use it that way, but I feel that I would be living a lie if I tried to use the steps pretending they’re not based on prayer to a deity as an atheist.

And as far as their “moderation is impossible” stance, that’s clearly a personal thing. I’ve seen horrible alcoholics who were able to moderate. For myself personally though, I’ve decided it’s not likely and not worth continuing to try. I lost too much in the past. Now I’m trying to gain, not lose. But yeah, it can be detrimental to people for sure. Also, the emphasis on clean/sober time and that one drink/drug throws it all away can be very detrimental as well.
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Yeah, I've got the Big Book.. Read a few bits and pieces, and it's very outdated and awful lol. I've actually got the Daily Reflections book right here (I was using it to put cash in haha).. Opened it to a random page and that mentions God. I'm not an atheist and believe in a "higher power" but definitely not the monotheistic one, and it hasn't saved me from alcohol so far (30 years heh).

Some of the meetings though were quite hilarious. For a while I went to about three a week in different places. One in particular was always chaotic and the guy who ran it seemed to have a few screws loose, so it was a bit of a circus and people got pretty rowdy. I enjoyed those ones. I was always terrified of sharing though, which was the main reason I didn't get very involved.

I read a book by Russell Brand called Recovery in which he goes through all the steps. I thought well, if it worked for Russell Brand it can't be a bad thing because he isn't exactly a god-fearing Christian. It sounded like a nightmare though with how long it took him to do some of the steps and how confronting it was.

A problem I have with abstinence is I become sort of obsessed with alcohol and really conscious of all the temptation, then one day I'll snap and buy some, then feel like it's the biggest disaster in the world. If I allow myself some now and then it reminds me it's actually pretty crap as far as drugs go. It's effective but "messy".
 
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