Kratom Need advice about Kratom dosage for a medical issue.

[RUC4]

I've been looking through the threads and haven't seen anything related to this issue. I have stage 4 severe endometriosis that is also in my intestines, along with an ovarian cyst the size of a lime. I'm in moderate to severe pain every day. I work from home and only need to sit in a chair in front of a computer to do my job, and sometimes I can't even do that. I'm meeting with a team of surgeons this week to discuss surgical options as I can't continue to live like this.

I was given a very small amount of pain pills (norco 5mg) that obviously didn't really work or last. I had to take at least 2 for pain relief and due to new laws (in Florida), I could only be given a small amount. I was referred to a pain management doctor who pretty much ignored what I was there for and sent me for an MRI to see if I ALSO have a back problem. I think this is stupid, I'm not there to find new things wrong, I'm there to treat the one that's causing me to not function, but whatever. I didn't get the MRI and didn't go back. I was hoping to get pain relief until I'm able to have surgery, but this isn't really seeming possible.

So long story kinda short, I heard about Kratom from this site, actually. After a lot of research, I bought Red Bali at my local smoke shop. I can't be sure of the quality, as I know that makes a difference, and I don't know if I can say the brand name on here (someone let me know if I can). I went to 3 shops and it was the main brand that was sold. I started cautiously with only a half gram, not knowing how I would react to it. After about 4 days, I'm up to 4g, and I dose twice a day. But, it's not giving me the feeling everyone talks about on here and it's not fully getting rid of my pain. I'd say it improves my pain by half (at best). I haven't noticed any bad side effects except a couple of times, I've gotten irritable (which may have just been the situation and had nothing to do with Kratom), and once I felt like I was restless and relaxed at the same time - the feeling passed in about 15 minutes so it wasn't anything serious at all.

I would like guidance on dosing. Am I not taking enough? I've read people tend to get nauseous and feel crappy when they take too much. I definitely don't need any added stomach trouble, that's the reason I started with such a low dose. I already deal with some nausea/vomiting issues often and monthly ileus, partial, and full obstructions. Do I need to get a more quality product? If so, could someone point me in the right direction. I'm not looking to get high, necessarily, I'm looking for pain relief and a basic sense of well-being that people brag about. Someone even said Kratom made them nod, I haven't felt anything close to this.

More information that may be helpful: I am taking the powder form, mixing it with water and drinking it. I weigh it out, so it's precise. I don't take any other medications. I haven't taken opiates in weeks (since I had a few the doctor gave me), so none are in my system. I used to have an opiate addiction (Dilauded and H), but I've been clean for 3 1/2 years. I stopped cold turkey and never went back to it. I did start drinking when I stopped the opiates, but I stopped a year ago, then kinda relapsed a few months ago due to the stress of constant pain I guess. It made me depressed that my life wasn't enjoyable anymore because of constant pain, and that no one was helping me get rid of the pain. Since I started the Kratom (5 days ago), I haven't drank. So, that is definitely a good thing. I was drinking every day (not a huge amount, but still drinking).

Anyways, sorry this is lengthy. I just wanted to give as much information as possible so someone can guide me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

 

[negrogesic]

I've been looking through the threads and haven't seen anything related to this issue. I have stage 4 severe endometriosis that is also in my intestines, along with an ovarian cyst the size of a lime. I'm in moderate to severe pain every day. I work from home and only need to sit in a chair in front of a computer to do my job, and sometimes I can't even do that. I'm meeting with a team of surgeons this week to discuss surgical options as I can't continue to live like this.

I was given a very small amount of pain pills (norco 5mg) that obviously didn't really work or last. I had to take at least 2 for pain relief and due to new laws (in Florida), I could only be given a small amount. I was referred to a pain management doctor who pretty much ignored what I was there for and sent me for an MRI to see if I ALSO have a back problem. I think this is stupid, I'm not there to find new things wrong, I'm there to treat the one that's causing me to not function, but whatever. I didn't get the MRI and didn't go back. I was hoping to get pain relief until I'm able to have surgery, but this isn't really seeming possible.

So long story kinda short, I heard about Kratom from this site, actually. After a lot of research, I bought Red Bali at my local smoke shop. I can't be sure of the quality, as I know that makes a difference, and I don't know if I can say the brand name on here (someone let me know if I can). I went to 3 shops and it was the main brand that was sold. I started cautiously with only a half gram, not knowing how I would react to it. After about 4 days, I'm up to 4g, and I dose twice a day. But, it's not giving me the feeling everyone talks about on here and it's not fully getting rid of my pain. I'd say it improves my pain by half (at best). I haven't noticed any bad side effects except a couple of times, I've gotten irritable (which may have just been the situation and had nothing to do with Kratom), and once I felt like I was restless and relaxed at the same time - the feeling passed in about 15 minutes so it wasn't anything serious at all.

I would like guidance on dosing. Am I not taking enough? I've read people tend to get nauseous and feel crappy when they take too much. I definitely don't need any added stomach trouble, that's the reason I started with such a low dose. I already deal with some nausea/vomiting issues often and monthly ileus, partial, and full obstructions. Do I need to get a more quality product? If so, could someone point me in the right direction. I'm not looking to get high, necessarily, I'm looking for pain relief and a basic sense of well-being that people brag about. Someone even said Kratom made them nod, I haven't felt anything close to this.

More information that may be helpful: I am taking the powder form, mixing it with water and drinking it. I weigh it out, so it's precise. I don't take any other medications. I haven't taken opiates in weeks (since I had a few the doctor gave me), so none are in my system. I used to have an opiate addiction (Dilauded and H), but I've been clean for 3 1/2 years. I stopped cold turkey and never went back to it. I did start drinking when I stopped the opiates, but I stopped a year ago, then kinda relapsed a few months ago due to the stress of constant pain I guess. It made me depressed that my life wasn't enjoyable anymore because of constant pain, and that no one was helping me get rid of the pain. Since I started the Kratom (5 days ago), I haven't drank. So, that is definitely a good thing. I was drinking every day (not a huge amount, but still drinking).

Anyways, sorry this is lengthy. I just wanted to give as much information as possible so someone can guide me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

Being plant material (leaves), powdered kratom is mostly insoluble fiber. Therefore I would recommend extreme caution when consuming it regularly if you suffer from frequent bowel obstructions. This large amount of fiber combined with the opioid-induced decrease in gastric motility can make your bowel obstructions worse.

If you are intent on using kratom perhaps consider trying it in the form of crushed leaf tea. This is a tea made by brewing crushed kratom leaves (not powder, but little bits of leaves) into a tea. We can't tell you where to purchase it but if you search the web for crushed leaf kratom you can find it. Unfortunately this method requires more kratom to get an equivalent effect since you don't consume the leaf. But it is longer lasting and more importantly, doesn't introduce a large amount of fiber into your GI tract. Problem is, any regular use of an opioid, fiber or not, will reduce bowel motility.

The other obvious fiber free alternative is kratom extracts (liquid shots or capsules) but these are probably too prohibitively expensive for regular use.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Initially I was making tea, then I switched to toss & wash because less time consuming and found it to be quite some more potent, together with an antacid it must be even stronger. I use powder, tried shred leaves but these are difficult to get down and seemed to be even less potent as tea so I'm back to powder. Relevant info @negrogesic that regular consumption of kratom powder can lead to bowel obstructions but it makes sense.

Have to say that I don't get constipation even from high dosages (20+g/d), which gives hope that also withdrawal will be less physically but worst 'feature' as always is depression + restlessness. I get that when not taking any kratom for 2 days. Wondering if I should rather stick to tea despite it being less potent and thus more pricey or just drink enough fluids.

I tried more than one kratom extract and found only one to match up with promised potency, this was a black resin extract from Switzerland which isn't available anymore because these retarded politicians banned kratom, for people to fuel the pharm industry. Same with kava kava but this is another story.

People have widely different reactions to kratom about potency, some get pain relief from as little as 2g some times daily while I am using 10+g per dose and 15-20+ per day and still only moderate effects - but these are precious, much like a less sedating morphine. Hope it's not just a short phase in which this lasts.

 

[RUC4]

Being plant material (leaves), powdered kratom is mostly insoluble fiber. Therefore I would recommend extreme caution when consuming it regularly if you suffer from frequent bowel obstructions. This large amount of fiber combined with the opioid-induced decrease in gastric motility can make your bowel obstructions worse.

If you are intent on using kratom perhaps consider trying it in the form of crushed leaf tea. This is a tea made by brewing crushed kratom leaves (not powder, but little bits of leaves) into a tea. We can't tell you where to purchase it but if you search the web for crushed leaf kratom you can find it. Unfortunately this method requires more kratom to get an equivalent effect since you don't consume the leaf. But it is longer lasting and more importantly, doesn't introduce a large amount of fiber into your GI tract. Problem is, any regular use of an opioid, fiber or not, will reduce bowel motility.

The other obvious fiber free alternative is kratom extracts (liquid shots or capsules) but these are probably too prohibitively expensive for regular use.

I appreciate your help. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I’ll look into the tea.
I understand that any opiate will reduce bowel motility, but without anything for pain, I can’t function through a normal week.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

You could make your own extract from powdered leaf ….Iv made a pretty decent extract with 70% isopropyl alcohol…just soak strain and evaporate in a Pyrex/dish, when all the alcohol evaporates off poor off the water, that’s mostly BS all the good stuff is in the iso…much cheaper then buying extract and much more effective than leaf

 

[RUC4]

You could make your own extract from powdered leaf ….Iv made a pretty decent extract with 70% isopropyl alcohol…just soak strain and evaporate in a Pyrex/dish, when all the alcohol evaporates off poor off the water, that’s mostly BS all the good stuff is in the iso…much cheaper then buying extract and much more effective than leaf

Idk if I’m understanding you. Soak the powder in isopropyl 70% and then wait for the alcohol to evaporate. What’s left is the extract. Where does the water come in? I’m confused. “Poor off the water, that’s mostly BS all the good stuff is in the iso “

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Idk if I’m understanding you. Soak the powder in isopropyl 70% and then wait for the alcohol to evaporate. What’s left is the extract. Where does the water come in? I’m confused. “Poor off the water, that’s mostly BS all the good stuff is in the iso “

70% iso has 30% water…the iso will evaporate off first leaving water sitting on top of your extract on the bottom of the dish, you don’t have to poor off the water, but the shit in the water is pretty inactive so might as well get rid of it..if you can get/afford to just use 99% iso then do that

 

[Xorkoth]

Being plant material (leaves), powdered kratom is mostly insoluble fiber. Therefore I would recommend extreme caution when consuming it regularly if you suffer from frequent bowel obstructions. This large amount of fiber combined with the opioid-induced decrease in gastric motility can make your bowel obstructions worse.

If you are intent on using kratom perhaps consider trying it in the form of crushed leaf tea. This is a tea made by brewing crushed kratom leaves (not powder, but little bits of leaves) into a tea. We can't tell you where to purchase it but if you search the web for crushed leaf kratom you can find it. Unfortunately this method requires more kratom to get an equivalent effect since you don't consume the leaf. But it is longer lasting and more importantly, doesn't introduce a large amount of fiber into your GI tract. Problem is, any regular use of an opioid, fiber or not, will reduce bowel motility.

The other obvious fiber free alternative is kratom extracts (liquid shots or capsules) but these are probably too prohibitively expensive for regular use.

This is true, however you can make tea by simmering it gently in water for 20 minutes and then filtering out the leaf material and discarding it. Also, extracts... not only will they work better as a pain killer 9due to being much stronger), they will avoid the insoluble fiber. But they're quite expensive.

If you can find the crushed leaf kratom (as opposed to the fine powder), it works better for making tea

 

[plumbus-nine]

This is true, however you can make tea by simmering it gently in water for 20 minutes and then filtering out the leaf material and discarding it. Also, extracts... not only will they work better as a pain killer 9due to being much stronger), they will avoid the insoluble fiber. But they're quite expensive.

If you can find the crushed leaf kratom (as opposed to the fine powder), it works better for making tea

I found extracts to be inferior to plain powder but for use as a pain killer it might be a good choice. Buy some big gelatin caps and fill them with whatever amount you need, for taking with you and reduce the hassle of weighing every time you want to take one.

Also had crushed leaves which were also less potent than powder but guess it's primarily related to tea vs toss'n'wash. I never simmered kratom as the alkaloids get destroyed at only slightly above 100C but of course this means that simmering is possible and will hopefully extract more of the goods.

Will try to make extract myself with isopropyl alcohol in future maybe.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Mit is not very soluble in water….making a tea kinda sucks ime, I imagine that’s why most people turn to toss n wash or mixing the powder in a drink

 

[plumbus-nine]

Mit is not very soluble in water….making a tea kinda sucks ime, I imagine that’s why most people turn to toss n wash or mixing the powder in a drink

Ah, that explains why I got dysphoria from teas but smooth good mood from toss n wash.
Tolerance is a bitch though, I always want more ... :/

How relevant do you guys think is what in another thread about kratom was mentioned, that the powdered leaves are mostly insoluble and can contribute to bowel problems? I guess that's more relevant when you get constipation from kratom which I don't. But with 20-30g/d it might be relevant.,

 

[Xorkoth]

Ah, that explains why I got dysphoria from teas but smooth good mood from toss n wash.

Opposite for me. I find toss and wash to feel much dirtier. A long, slow simmered tea provides a higher quality experience for me, but you need a larger weight of leaf. With a tea I can dose 12-14 grams, without getting the dizzy/nauseous thing, which allows me to get an effect more like a good extract. If I dose that much with a toss and wash, I feel like shit and need to lie down because of the dizziness and nausea.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Ah, that explains why I got dysphoria from teas but smooth good mood from toss n wash.
Tolerance is a bitch though, I always want more ... :/

How relevant do you guys think is what in another thread about kratom was mentioned, that the powdered leaves are mostly insoluble and can contribute to bowel problems? I guess that's more relevant when you get constipation from kratom which I don't. But with 20-30g/d it might be relevant.,

Yea man I don’t know what the water dissolves but when I did the iso extract the iso part turned into a tan powder that you could see little crystals in and the water part stayed a black slime..I’m sure boiling water will pull more then just room temp iso but still mit isn’t very soluable in water, you can see by emptying a extract pill into a glass of water it will hardly dissolve into the water

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was into making kratom tea for a year or so, but the taste of it eventually became so bad that just thinking about drinking it again makes me gag. I typically put way, wayyyy to much lemon juice in my tea which I think contributed to this reaction to it.

I'm a toss and wash guy. Done properly you hardly even taste the kratom at all. Quick, convenient.

After 10 years with this plant I have never experienced any GI issues, constipation or anything. Only nausea, at high doses.

I will admit that tea does seem to have a slightly stronger, quicker more "clean" high to it. I just can't stomach any sort of liquid kratom other than extract.

 

[RUC4]

Ah, that explains why I got dysphoria from teas but smooth good mood from toss n wash.
Tolerance is a bitch though, I always want more ... :/

How relevant do you guys think is what in another thread about kratom was mentioned, that the powdered leaves are mostly insoluble and can contribute to bowel problems? I guess that's more relevant when you get constipation from kratom which I don't. But with 20-30g/d it might be relevant.,

Why is your signature upside down? How eccentric. Lol. Like let me force you to work harder to read what I’m writing.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I was into making kratom tea for a year or so, but the taste of it eventually became so bad that just thinking about drinking it again makes me gag. I typically put way, wayyyy to much lemon juice in my tea which I think contributed to this reaction to it.

Same here, in the beginnings I was making tea, with sugar, lemon juice, natural.. first I found the taste to be ok, and at least in comparison to e.g. Kava it's still much less horrible but for the amounts I need I'd drink a liter or so 2x/day for to soluble all the alkaloids.. and, as already said, toss'n'wash is probably more potent and for sure faster. Could probably even do it in public but thankfully does Kratom last the whole day - at least does it take 2 days until withdrawal becomes evident, the acute effects last subjectively maybe 4-6 depending on dosage.,

After 10 years with this plant I have never experienced any GI issues, constipation or anything. Only nausea, at high doses.

Good to know, thanks. I thought that with the widespread use of this plant, it would be known if slurping the powder might become dangerous.. but yeah, kratom doesn't constipate, which I see as a sign for that it isn't that strong as a mu (partial) agonist. Buprenorphine is worse. But Kratom has a serious withdrawal, most annoying for me are restlessness and depression. Both should be fixable, maybe with a dopamine agonist or memantine, which saved my ass when I was stopping morphine due to side effects and moving into another country where I didn't know good docs. No interest in going daily to pick up my methadone, thanks.

Why is your signature upside down? How eccentric. Lol. Like let me force you to work harder to read what I’m writing.

I put it in there because somebody told me quite harshly that I should stop playing doc/giving advice about substances/medicines when I'm no doc. For making it a bit less stereotypical I inverted it, lol. Till I find a better signature for now.

Today probably 30+g of Kratom, a White Vein sample (15g) and Maeng Da Red. I need to watch my intake. Will soon get some RCs, dissociatives etc. so I'll be able to rotate drugs. Ah, currently I'm taking 300mg pregabalin together with the Kratom in morning, plays nicely together but I will cut down on it as to have it available for withdrawal.

@RUC4 Did you try pregabalin or gabapentin for the pain? They're not traditional narcotics/analgesics but work pretty well for some types of pain, notably fibromyalgia but possibly also others.

 

[RUC4]

Why is your signature upside down? How eccentric. Lol. Like let me force you to work harder to read what I’m writing.

Same here, in the beginnings I was making tea, with sugar, lemon juice, natural.. first I found the taste to be ok, and at least in comparison to e.g. Kava it's still much less horrible but for the amounts I need I'd drink a liter or so 2x/day for to soluble all the alkaloids.. and, as already said, toss'n'wash is probably more potent and for sure faster. Could probably even do it in public but thankfully does Kratom last the whole day - at least does it take 2 days until withdrawal becomes evident, the acute effects last subjectively maybe 4-6 depending on dosage.,


Good to know, thanks. I thought that with the widespread use of this plant, it would be known if slurping the powder might become dangerous.. but yeah, kratom doesn't constipate, which I see as a sign for that it isn't that strong as a mu (partial) agonist. Buprenorphine is worse. But Kratom has a serious withdrawal, most annoying for me are restlessness and depression. Both should be fixable, maybe with a dopamine agonist or memantine, which saved my ass when I was stopping morphine due to side effects and moving into another country where I didn't know good docs. No interest in going daily to pick up my methadone, thanks.


I put it in there because somebody told me quite harshly that I should stop playing doc/giving advice about substances/medicines when I'm no doc. For making it a bit less stereotypical I inverted it, lol. Till I find a better signature for now.

Today probably 30+g of Kratom, a White Vein sample (15g) and Maeng Da Red. I need to watch my intake. Will soon get some RCs, dissociatives etc. so I'll be able to rotate drugs. Ah, currently I'm taking 300mg pregabalin together with the Kratom in morning, plays nicely together but I will cut down on it as to have it available for withdrawal.

@RUC4 Did you try pregabalin or gabapentin for the pain? They're not traditional narcotics/analgesics but work pretty well for some types of pain, notably fibromyalgia but possibly also others.

Isn’t memantine for dementia. I had a dementia patient taking that. How does that help withdrawals? And most people on opiates, shouldn’t be, medically. I’m speaking only medically. Idk if you read my original post.

 

[RUC4]

Isn’t memantine for dementia. I had a dementia patient taking that. How does that help withdrawals? And most people on opiates, shouldn’t be, medically. I’m speaking only medically. Idk if you read my original post.

And I’ve tried pretty much everything for the pain. But gabapentin is for nerve pain which isn’t quite the same thing. But I have tried it.

Same here, in the beginnings I was making tea, with sugar, lemon juice, natural.. first I found the taste to be ok, and at least in comparison to e.g. Kava it's still much less horrible but for the amounts I need I'd drink a liter or so 2x/day for to soluble all the alkaloids.. and, as already said, toss'n'wash is probably more potent and for sure faster. Could probably even do it in public but thankfully does Kratom last the whole day - at least does it take 2 days until withdrawal becomes evident, the acute effects last subjectively maybe 4-6 depending on dosage.,


Good to know, thanks. I thought that with the widespread use of this plant, it would be known if slurping the powder might become dangerous.. but yeah, kratom doesn't constipate, which I see as a sign for that it isn't that strong as a mu (partial) agonist. Buprenorphine is worse. But Kratom has a serious withdrawal, most annoying for me are restlessness and depression. Both should be fixable, maybe with a dopamine agonist or memantine, which saved my ass when I was stopping morphine due to side effects and moving into another country where I didn't know good docs. No interest in going daily to pick up my methadone, thanks.


I put it in there because somebody told me quite harshly that I should stop playing doc/giving advice about substances/medicines when I'm no doc. For making it a bit less stereotypical I inverted it, lol. Till I find a better signature for now.

Today probably 30+g of Kratom, a White Vein sample (15g) and Maeng Da Red. I need to watch my intake. Will soon get some RCs, dissociatives etc. so I'll be able to rotate drugs. Ah, currently I'm taking 300mg pregabalin together with the Kratom in morning, plays nicely together but I will cut down on it as to have it available for withdrawal.

@RUC4 Did you try pregabalin or gabapentin for the pain? They're not traditional narcotics/analgesics but work pretty well for some types of pain, notably fibromyalgia but possibly also others.

Unless you have dementia, I wouldn’t take memantine friend. It has harsh side effects. Just get off the shit if you don’t need it. You’re putting yourself through unneeded shit.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Isn’t memantine for dementia. I had a dementia patient taking that. How does that help withdrawals? And most people on opiates, shouldn’t be, medically. I’m speaking only medically. Idk if you read my original post.

Unless you have dementia, I wouldn’t take memantine friend. It has harsh side effects.

Yeah, the current approval is for dementia. Ironic that there it has seemingly (never spoke with a dementia patient taking it) limited effects but it does modulate opioid tolerance like all dissociatives (NMDA antagonists) do. The interaction between dissociatives and specially memantine with opioids is well documented on PubMed.

Also it's a decent anxiolytic, which doesn't induce withdrawal like benzodiazepines. Did you see these harsh side effects yourself, and which ones do you refer to? I took memantine for months, in low (as recommended: 20mg) and higher (60+mg) dosages. In a study about methadone tolerance and memantine they gave 60mg doses. But even at 100+mg it's well tolerated, I just couldn't sleep - also like any of the dissociatives. In my opinion is memantine one of few medicines which has such a huge therapeutic window. Withdrawal is exceedingly rare, I found only one paper describing two cases.

I don't select drugs that much upon what they're approved for anymore but by the pharmacology they show. Approval is expensive and lengthy, nobody will do that for memantine and opioid addiction or anxiety because it's off patent and no more $$$ to make.

Just get off the shit if you don’t need it. You’re putting yourself through unneeded shit.

I am off it, tolerance's too high and the D2 agonism worsens insomnia in higher dosages. But while on it I profited, it made me less impulsive and anxious, as well as it together with pregabalin allowed me to get off 600mg/d morphine over 3 years without withdrawal to speak of. That's remarkable, just look at how many people ask here about how they could ease withdrawal. And for pain patients tolerance is often enough an issue. One could also use dextromethorphan, it's documented as well and that paper says that some doctors are using it in low dose combination to keep opioid tolerance in check.

Of course, no medicine is best but when these crutches help one then why not.

 

[Xorkoth]

Same here, in the beginnings I was making tea, with sugar, lemon juice, natural.. first I found the taste to be ok, and at least in comparison to e.g. Kava it's still much less horrible but for the amounts I need I'd drink a liter or so 2x/day for to soluble all the alkaloids.. and, as already said, toss'n'wash is probably more potent and for sure faster. Could probably even do it in public but thankfully does Kratom last the whole day - at least does it take 2 days until withdrawal becomes evident, the acute effects last subjectively maybe 4-6 depending on dosage.,

I don't mind the taste of toss and wash kratom, the tea is truly bad though. But I actually like the taste of kava, to me it is pleasant, I have no desire to even chase it with anything. Nothing bad about it, it tastes earthy and spicy. Seems like a lot of people think it tastes bad though.