Detox Why does opioid withdrawal give flu like symptoms?

[Jabberwocky]

All the other symptoms make sense. The mental symptoms, the pain/sore body. Easy to understand... but why does the body believe it is ill and start the runny nose/cough/sneezing? Does it have something to do with the immune system?

I've been sober for 19 days and still have this really annoying runny nose and sneezing which will not go away even after the other symptoms have subsided.

 

[Shady's Fox]

because the human body has more than 1 million nerves ( don't trust science ) is the second most complex organism next to crows, they get over whelmed by the substance and so your body sends a scout team aka white cells, that scout team isn't that powerful but is powerful enough for a moderate regeneration such as rehab, if we speak infections you'll need antibiotics eventually anyhow given the current regards, this scout team is credited with a green hand aka stress. They cause your body to stress out because you need regeneration

 

[Shady's Fox]

You might need to get your polyps removed if your runny nose doesn't go away, it will still be runny for rest of your life because hereditary genetics. Now, you know your body better than me

 

[Jabberwocky]

You might need to get your polyps removed if your runny nose doesn't go away, it will still be runny for rest of your life because hereditary genetics. Now, you know your body better than me

my mother has some sort of sinus issue in which her left nostril is constantly runny, permanently

sucks I never had that though

 

[Jabberwocky]

All the other symptoms make sense. The mental symptoms, the pain/sore body. Easy to understand... but why does the body believe it is ill and start the runny nose/cough/sneezing? Does it have something to do with the immune system?

I've been sober for 19 days and still have this really annoying runny nose and sneezing which will not go away even after the other symptoms have subsided.

I’m going to give a detailed response just so people looking at this thread in the future might benefit..
runny nose is a normal part of the withdrawal process, It is not related to your immune system, it might cause a cough because part of it might end up being post nasal drip and maybe the irritation could cause sneezing but its past the time where this should be a symptom I am going to go into more detail and pick this up again after I finish.

Your body has natural opioid receptors. These are called endogenous opioids and are released to stop pain. There are several types of opioid receptors in the brain that are acted on by opiods because it is a naturally occcuring substance like the your body has naturally occurring cannabinoids.
When you take opiods like OxyContin or heroin over a period of time, often as short as a week, your body down regulates the production of its own opioids and when you stop; withdrawal occurs.
Your body will start to produce its own but you need to abstain and maintain it, without any suboxone or methadone in order for your body to successfully recreate homeostasis
-or you have to stay on subs or methadone forever which if you are incapable of sobriety on your own and at risk financially, psychologically and or physically form you addiction is a good option but if you are just in fear of withdrawals it is not as bad as the media tries to make you think it is. With tapering and other cheat codes and hacks there are ways to make withdrawal more bearable and help the body and mind in the PAWS period.


* withdrawal
There are 3 phases of withdrawal 1. Initial acute withdrawal 7days peaking at day 3 for short acting is the acute withdrawal for and day 4 for long acting every relapse resets the clock 2. second phase withdrawal after the first 6 days or so and then 3. post acute withdrawal syndrone (PAWS) which not everyone gets 6 months is the timeframe that you will have the post acute withdrawal period PAWS and


Initial Phase Withdrawal Symptoms

Most people start to feel these symptoms after not using opioids for around eight hours.

• Muscle aches
• Excessive sweating
• Lethargy and excessive yawning
• Runny nose
• Anxiety
• Extreme cravings
• Restlessness
• Agitation
• Insomnia
• Restless leg syndrome

Second Phase Withdrawal Symptoms​

The second phase, which can be more intense, begins after the first day or so. Symptoms in the second phase include:

• Dilated pupils
• Rapid heartbeat
• Diarrhea
• Nausea and vomiting
• Goosebumps
• Abdominal cramps
• High blood pressure

As you can see the runny nose should not be a problem still and honestly coughing and sneezing I’ve never had happen to me. If I want to make it work aI can rationalize it and stretch it but it sounds more like an infection or an allerg.
were you snorting? If so I would go to the dr or ready care and see if you have a sinus infection
I would try Benadryl or Zertec or Claritin to see if that resolves the symptoms
I would get a netI pot and use that with distilled water with salt mixture (do not use tap water without boiling it the safety risks are very low but they exist and tao water should not be used and if it is used it should be boiled and always use a salt water mixture)

get something like Flonase
you need something to clear out your nasal passages

have you been snorting anything?
do you have pressure in your face, cheeks, above your eyebrows? Any area of your face?
have you taken your temperature?

not to be gross or is the nasal drip clear or is it green or dark in color
clear is usually the color I have when you have the runny nose of withdrawal

hope this resolves on its own or with something listed if not you need antibiotics

feel better ‍

edited to add if you cannot get antibiotics oregano oil it is an all natural treatment for sinus infections
oregano oil can blast most infections and most fungus‘ which can often colonize im the nasal cavity (it is warm and moist) Good lord this is the most disgusting thing Ive written on the internet most people are looking at porn I’m all up in someone nose holes

take a drop of oregano oil and put it under your tongue or put in water and drink and you will be fighting infection and probably vampires

 

[Skorpio]

A large part of opioid withdrawal is a generalized inflammatory response. Dissecting causality in inflammatory signalling gets tricky, because there is positive feedback occurring, which makes it difficult to isolate if a particular pathway with certainty.

However, there is good evidence that Toll like receptor 4 activation by opioids contributes to pro-inflammatory states produced by withdrawal. As withdrawal symptoms feel similar to generalized viral infections, the assumption can be made that there is some overlap with interferon signaling. Toll like receptor 4 is upstream of interferon signaling pathways, as well as NFkB pathways (though in cases of inflammation, it would be harder to find something not linked to NFkB signaling).

Tldr:

Somehow opioid withdrawal induces the same inflammatory processes that pathogen infections do. Toll like receptor 4 is a decent hypothesis, as it is activated by opioids, and feeds onto interferon pathways.

 

[Jabberwocky]

@jane douloureux thanks, it's just clear mucous no sign of infection. It's not too bad, just annoying.

I haven't been snorting anything. I had to cold turkey off a really huge 8 year kratom dependence, so some of the symptoms are a little different than typical opioids.

I'm pretty stressed out because I was heavily exposed to some family the other day who all have a nasty cold and coughing in my face all night. Now I'm assuming I'm going to get it as well, I assume my immune system is suppressed.

I'll get some sick meds anyways I guess for that reason. The last thing I need is to get a cold on top of these PAWS

 

[Jabberwocky]

A large part of opioid withdrawal is a generalized inflammatory response. Dissecting causality in inflammatory signalling gets tricky, because there is positive feedback occurring, which makes it difficult to isolate if a particular pathway with certainty.

However, there is good evidence that Toll like receptor 4 activation by opioids contributes to pro-inflammatory states produced by withdrawal. As withdrawal symptoms feel similar to generalized viral infections, the assumption can be made that there is some overlap with interferon signaling. Toll like receptor 4 is upstream of interferon signaling pathways, as well as NFkB pathways (though in cases of inflammation, it would be harder to find something not linked to NFkB signaling).

Tldr:

Somehow opioid withdrawal induces the same inflammatory processes that pathogen infections do. Toll like receptor 4 is a decent hypothesis, as it is activated by opioids, and feeds onto interferon pathways.

makes a lot of sense

it's kinda crazy how interconnected our body biology is

the leg bone is indeed connected to the ankle bone

 

[Skorpio]

makes a lot of sense

it's kinda crazy how interconnected our body biology is

the leg bone is indeed connected to the ankle bone

This really is so true.

A big pet peeve of mine is when people act like signaling can be isolated to solve things (like when people talk about tolerance to dopaminergics and induction of delta fosb, and act like there is a way to specifically antagonize it's induction in that context, but not other contexts).

Everything is interconnected, often in ways we havent yet fully elucidated. It is foolhardy to think these things are isolatable in some contexts without impinging in others.

Rant over

 

[westbank23]

All of that went away after about a month and half after I jumped ship..it's aggravating but eventually it goes away and you return to normal..

 

[n3ophy7e]

All the other symptoms make sense. The mental symptoms, the pain/sore body. Easy to understand... but why does the body believe it is ill and start the runny nose/cough/sneezing? Does it have something to do with the immune system?

I've been sober for 19 days and still have this really annoying runny nose and sneezing which will not go away even after the other symptoms have subsided.

Hmmm, whenever I've come off opiates I can't recall runny nose, cough or sneezing, especially after a few weeks. You might actually just have a cold virus. Often during active addiction and then when coming off substances we neglect self care including good nutrition and sleep, which can lead to low immune system. So yeah you may genuinely be sick? Regardless I hope you feel better soon

 

[VerbalTruist]

You might need to get your polyps removed if your runny nose doesn't go away, it will still be runny for rest of your life because hereditary genetics. Now, you know your body better than me

Polyp removal? What the hell are you talking about?

because the human body has more than 1 million nerves ( don't trust science ) is the second most complex organism next to crows, they get over whelmed by the substance and so your body sends a scout team aka white cells, that scout team isn't that powerful but is powerful enough for a moderate regeneration such as rehab, if we speak infections you'll need antibiotics eventually anyhow given the current regards, this scout team is credited with a green hand aka stress. They cause your body to stress out because you need regeneration

Anyone who says “don’t trust the science” and then goes on to talk about antibiotics helping for opiate w/d… dude, are you fucking serious?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Polyp removal? What the hell are you talking about?

Anyone who says “don’t trust the science” and then goes on to talk about antibiotics helping for opiate w/d… dude, are you fucking serious?

Polyps are growths in the nose or sinuses that occur when there is chronic irritation and inflammation that can block your ability to breathe or sense of smell. You can treat them with a nasal spray like Fluticasone steroid spray (Flonase otc) or Azelastine nasal spray which is an antihistamine but if the clear discharge keeps draining into the sinus cavity it can cause a mucocele a mucus retention cyst which can grow quite large and eventually cause pressure, paresthesia, pain in your face and even bulging of your eye if it is in that area of your sinus’.

So it is for the best to deal with nasal poylps sooner rather then later and just get them removed.

If you have persistent clear nasal discharge and are not in the early stages of opioid withdrawal or having a seasonal allergy attack you and you are lucky enough to have insurance. I would strongly advise you go to an ent (otolaryngologist) and find out the cause. Everything is easier to fix early rather then later although I know I never take this advice so no judgement to those who of are the mindset to just leave it and hope it goes away. Or just leave it and pretend the world will end before you need to deal with it.

Back to polyps; long term use of the aforementioned steroid sprays can cause hoarseness and the post nasal drip is stilljust uncomfortable. If this is your problem and your ENT is steering you towards a lifetime of office visits and monthly prescriptions get a second opinion. He either may not be able to do your surgery (no hospital privileges, lacks skill etc) or may benefit more financially in the long run seeing you forever with a chronic problem that will only get worse before he finall has to refer you for a much more complicated procedure.

I trust science.
I just don’t trust human beings who benefit from interpreting science in ways that line their pockets.
it’s similar to when the priests were against the Bible being translated from Latin to English.
They benefit from people being in the dark.
those days are over

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Opioids also slow down gastric emptying, because there are receptors in your gut that they attach to. Once it's gone, this can result in an over active and confused bowel, leading to diarrhea.


Using opioids suppresses norepinephrine too I think. So once you stop, the over release of this chemical can lead to anxiety, high blood pressure, chills, etc.. (some one correct me tho if I am wrong about this one).

The muscle aches are obviously your body out of homeostasis and not making it's own endorphins. So you get heightened pain sensitivity.



IMO though, opioid withdrawals are more than just the flu symptoms that often get described.
Jane did a good job describing the first 2 phases, but she forgot phase 3, which is abstinence & the possibility of PAWs.
This is the part where most people fail & relapse, because these symptoms (depression, anhedonia, cravings, irritability, not feeling quite 'normal') can linger on for much longer (years even).

 

[Jabberwocky]

well it's day 22 and the runny nose and sneezing seems to have stopped now

it is possible I was actually fighting a cold off or something, I've been heavily exposed to some sick family members for 4-5 days now (nasty head cold, coughing in my face) and I have not become sick as of yet

not sure if my immune system is weak from withdrawal or strong from fighting something off during withdrawal for 3 weeks

the possibility of PAWs.
This is the part where most people fail & relapse, because these symptoms (depression, anhedonia, cravings, irritability, not feeling quite 'normal') can linger on for much longer (years even).

yeah these PAWS are hitting me really hard :/

ultra frustrating when you just want to be back to normal after going through hell of acute wds

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I use to get watery eyes & yawning in withdrawal, but don't remember sneezing or coughing.

Most opiates/oids are immunosuppressants I think. Except for tramadol I believe, which has immuno-boosting properties.
So coming off them can possibly throw your immune system for a loop?

Also, aren't most opioids also cough suppressants? Or at least have some mild cough suppressing activity? This could be the reason for any coughing, although I'm just throwing it out there rather than saying that's what it is.

Wish I had some advice about PAWS, but unfortunately I haven't NOT been on drugs in a very long time. Decades even. I don't think I could ever be without them either. Especially opioids. Without opioids, I would be back to drinking alcohol and doing a lot of stupid shit. A daily opioid usually keeps me from wanting to get too crazy with any self destructive habits. But no other drugs make me feel that way at all, except maybe cannabis.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I use to get watery eyes & yawning in withdrawal, but don't remember sneezing or coughing.

Most opiates/oids are immunosuppressants I think. Except for tramadol I believe, which has immuno-boosting properties.
So coming off them can possibly throw your immune system for a loop?

Also, aren't most opioids also cough suppressants? Or at least have some mild cough suppressing activity? This could be the reason for any coughing, although I'm just throwing it out there rather than saying that's what it is.

Wish I had some advice about PAWS, but unfortunately I haven't NOT been on drugs in a very long time. Decades even. I don't think I could ever be without them either. Especially opioids. Without opioids, I would be back to drinking alcohol and doing a lot of stupid shit. A daily opioid usually keeps me from wanting to get too crazy with any self destructive habits. But no other drugs make me feel that way at all, except maybe cannabis.

I read a book called the opiate cure which was about a dr who thought he cured bipolar disorder with opioids I googled opioids curing bipolar disorder after realizing being on opioids had kept me from having a manic episode and then getting clean brought on all the insanity that they had been suppressing.

it was a real bummer because when I did a little internet investigation to see what the opiod war had done to his practice he was out of practice and his patients when I followed the trail of the dr they were referred to they were all long story short screwed

it doesn’t cure bipolar disorder but it treats it; my theory is that it is a cns suppressant and therefore suppresses mania it also stopped my ocd symptoms and eating disorder which I believe is in the ocd family
all which came roaring back when I tapered off and got clean

my point: I think a lot of people with mental illnesses self medicate with heroin and other opioid medications because they work well for it
same reason we have an opioid crisis. there is such despair in our society and people feel hopeless they need a panacea and that it is it

oh and yeah codeine cough syrup for coughing they are miracle drugs now they damn opiate war is keeping dying people from getting them This county always overcorrects

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I read a book called the opiate cure which was about a dr who thought he cured bipolar disorder with opioids I googled opioids curing bipolar disorder after realizing being on opioids had kept me from having a manic episode and then getting clean brought on all the insanity that they had been suppressing.

it was a real bummer because when I did a little internet investigation to see what the opiod war had done to his practice he was out of practice and his patients when I followed the trail of the dr they were referred to they were all long story short screwed

it doesn’t cure bipolar disorder but it treats it; my theory is that it is a cns suppressant and therefore suppresses mania it also stopped my ocd symptoms and eating disorder which I believe is in the ocd family
all which came roaring back when I tapered off and got clean

my point: I think a lot of people with mental illnesses self medicate with heroin and other opioid medications because they work well for it
same reason we have an opioid crisis. there is such despair in our society and people feel hopeless they need a panacea and that it is it

oh and yeah codeine cough syrup for coughing they are miracle drugs now they damn opiate war is keeping dying people from getting them This county always overcorrects

I couldn't agree more!


Opiates were in fact used to treat mental health at one point waay back in the day (like depression, anxiety, psychosis). This is the first time I've heard of anyone having a positive experience regarding opioids and bi-polar. But it wouldn't surprise me.

"Why let people treat their mental health disorders with one cheap, easily manufactured drug, when we can keep them on 10 different ones for every single symptom" - What I assume Big Pharma probably thinks.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Totally Agree! it’s always about money not about helping people the money they make on psychotropic medication is probably insane
I can’t help but think that there would be at least a slightly less problem with med compliance with opioid therapy for psychosis then with antipsychotics. The side effect profile of antipsychotics and the way they make you feel is just shitty all around shitty and then there is always the risk of tardive dyskinesia a permant movement disorder. who can blame people for repeatedly ditching their medication? I know in my heart they would stick to an opioid regimen more then the misery of any any antipsychotic (first generation or atypical) with opioids at first you feel great then with tolerance you don’t feel any different then normal. What more could you ask for from a medication?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Totally Agree! it’s always about money not about helping people the money they make on psychotropic medication is probably insane
I can’t help but think that there would be at least a slightly less problem with med compliance with opioid therapy for psychosis then with antipsychotics. The side effect profile of antipsychotics and the way they make you feel is just shitty all around shitty and then there is always the risk of tardive dyskinesia a permant movement disorder. who can blame people for repeatedly ditching their medication? I know in my heart they would stick to an opioid regimen more then the misery of any any antipsychotic (first generation or atypical) with opioids at first you feel great then with tolerance you don’t feel any different then normal. What more could you ask for from a medication?

Everything you just said is 100% on spot! Incredible!

It really makes you wonder why they'd want people to have more side effects (possibly permanent, life debilitating ones) rather than have them possibly feel the awful evil side effects of "euphoria" or "well-being", no way can we have that! That would be so cruel!

I know why they'd want that tho. And I truly believe that the "opioid crisis" was manufactured through artificial means (getting people hooked, then taking it away, inflating death counts by marking poly-drug overdoses as 'opioid overdoses' & then letting fentanyl run the streets). And now they're demonizing opiates & making access to them even harder because they "dont want us to be addicted". But they don't mind us being addicted to alcohol, tobacco, sugar & whatever other shitty legal things people consume on a daily basis. I truly believe they are doing it because they know how much opiates can treat a variety of issues and if they did that, then who would buy all their shitty antidepressants & antipsychotics and all the other garbage they poison us with.

They did the same thing to cannabis for the longest time. Now the world is coming around to their senses (although it's still illegal in a lot of places). But I feel like it's going to take a long time to bring the public back to reality with opiates. Especially with fentanyl killing people and ignorant masses believing "all opioids will kill you because people died from fentanyl". I try everywhere I go to express this problem to people (whether online or in real life) as I feel like being vocal is all I can do about it.

I have severe depression, have had to stop working, feel like I'm on the brink of homelessness all the time & have to stay in abusive relationships to keep a roof over my head. I also have movement disorders & other neurological and cognitive issues possibly thanks to the barrel full of psychiatric medicines I've been given over the past decade. Yet if I were able to take a few intranasal hits of diacetylmorphine a day, my life could totally turn around for the better. Or at least I'd be able to have a few moments of peace & relaxation a day.

But some how that behavior is bad, but drinking after a hard days work is okay (and in some cases, the right thing to do). I also find it peculiar that when I have opioids, my desire to use alcohol or "get fucked" totally disappears.

I do take buprenorphine, but it is not the same as a shorter acting full agonist. Those at least have a consistency to their effects when you dose, where as these mega long acting maintenance ones eventually build up to a point where no dose does anything. Some will argue that the same can happen with diacetylmorphine because of tolerance, but I found in all my years of using that once my tolerance hit a specific dosage, just taking that dosage may not have made me full blown high, but feeling "normal", like some one would if they were not depressed and what not. And I was alright with that. Plus you can adjust your tolerance a little easier with something a little shorter acting. Even when I could only use tramadol & grew a tolerance, I'd still hover around the 400mg spot and would be good for usually until I went to bed that day.

I had some one asking me the other day why their doctor wanted to put them on prozac, even though they haven't been diagnosed with any mental health problems & don't feel like they have depression. There is no doubt in my mind that this scenario happens a lot more than just this person & i'm sure they are making a killing on this shit (which a lot of also causes dependence).

Sorry, ranting here now, but I'm very passionate about opiates & think people need to have this discussion more about their benefits & all the myths and misinformation surrounding them.