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Miscellaneous Is Elemicin Psycho-Active?

SmilexGwG

SmilexGwG

Bluelighter
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Jul 2, 2021
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The Forest Of My Mind
So I got really excited after reading thread after thread after thread on many old forums about Elemicin and elemi oil being a mild psychedelic. Well then i saw the scandal with 69Ron and how he was selling Elemicin and other legal Allylbezenes on his website while talking them up on other sites. This automatically makes people think this compound was completely in-active from the beginning and that 69Ron made up everything about it including several trip reports on alternative accounts.

I have several experienced friends who have tried elemi oil with mild stimulant effects, which they didn't do much research on it so didn't know what to expect. Yet they still got the same stimulation described in many reports.

Many people who try Elemicin use only incredibly small doses, like half a Ml of the oil or 2Mls ect.

But really since there would be about 35mg of Elemicin per ML of oil 5 or more Mls would be needed to get a moderate mescaline like experience if we are to assume its weaker than mescaline. This is my theory to why many report experiencing nothing from the oil. However the truth might just be that it was never active from the beggining.

I understand there's no amine on the end of the molecule which would make a normal Phenethylamine or Amphetamine In-Active completely. But a very similar allylbezene called Myristicin have been shown in study's to be active at the HT2x receptors and it contains no amine/nitrogen.

So does anyone here have any experience with Elemicin, is it really active or really just a scam?

I ordered a lot of the oil, and would really appreciate any help I could get.

And last thing, i understand reports can be found on the web however they all date back to the days when 69Ron was active and since a lot of people believe those reports were fabricated by him i would like to hear some that have no chance of being made by him.

Thanks in advance :)
 
Xorkoth said:
Someone on here, I want to say @Kaleida but may have been someone else, wrote a TR on elemi oil some years back. If I recall correctly, I believe it was pretty psychoactive and not just stimulating, either. No idea of the dosage. And might not have been Kaleida either!
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Interesting, even Erowid has a article about nutmeg where it shows what compounds in nutmeg bind to what and it says that elemicin is a HT2A agonist. This was before 69Ron's first thread on TapaTalk where here mentioned its activity
 
That was actually a nutmeg oil trip report, I never got around to trying elemi oil but still would be interested to.

I knew 69ron, not well, but somewhat. I watched a lot of that stuff unfold as it was actually happening. I never bought into the idea that it was all a big scam, regardless of if he wasn't always straightforward or honest about everything, which I'm not going to specifically comment on. He always found scientific references trying to support what he was saying and went way out of his way trying to explain why people reacted differently to everyone including himself, and encouraged people to buy oils from any good source that they could, not just the one.

Nutmeg essential oil worked exactly as expected for me based on what I read from users on the forum he took over, but, that's nutmeg, the most already-verified of all of them. I have little doubt that elemi essential oil is active but I have no idea how much. I'd certainly he happy to read more accounts of it, as it might convince me to finally try it myself.

Nutmeg essential oil is somewhat inconsistent, but quite nice.... I haven't used mescaline but it strikes me as somewhat comparable to what I've heard about it. Its psychedelic effects bear resemblance to deeper phenethylamines but very clean and soft, meditative at low dosages and producing complex and immersive visions at high dosages. I understand why people traditionally thought it was anticholinergic in nature, though I find it more comparable to MDMA in the nature of its "delirium" than something like diphenhydramine. The old accounts of elemi essential oil lead me to believe that if strong activity can be obtained, it's likely less overt and MDMA-like but takes the mescaline-like component to either a similar degree or further.
 
Kaleida said:
That was actually a nutmeg oil trip report, I never got around to trying elemi oil but still would be interested to.

I knew 69ron, not well, but somewhat. I watched a lot of that stuff unfold as it was actually happening. I never bought into the idea that it was all a big scam, regardless of if he wasn't always straightforward or honest about everything, which I'm not going to specifically comment on. He always found scientific references trying to support what he was saying and went way out of his way trying to explain why people reacted differently to everyone including himself, and encouraged people to buy oils from any good source that they could, not just the one.

Nutmeg essential oil worked exactly as expected for me based on what I read from users on the forum he took over, but, that's nutmeg, the most already-verified of all of them. I have little doubt that elemi essential oil is active but I have no idea how much. I'd certainly he happy to read more accounts of it, as it might convince me to finally try it myself.

Nutmeg essential oil is somewhat inconsistent, but quite nice.... I haven't used mescaline but it strikes me as somewhat comparable to what I've heard about it. Its psychedelic effects bear resemblance to deeper phenethylamines but very clean and soft, meditative at low dosages and producing complex and immersive visions at high dosages. I understand why people traditionally thought it was anticholinergic in nature, though I find it more comparable to MDMA in the nature of its "delirium" than something like diphenhydramine. The old accounts of elemi essential oil lead me to believe that if strong activity can be obtained, it's likely less overt and MDMA-like but takes the mescaline-like component to either a similar degree or further.
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Does nutmeg essential oil produce the cannabinoid like effects that regular nutmeg does? Or is it more "psychedelic"

Because the compound responsible for the cannabinoid effects of nutmeg is licarin A which acts as a FAAH Inhibitor. I dont think this compound is actually present in the essential oil though. If the effects of nutmeg essential oil werent cannabinoid like, than its likely the allybezenes that are very similar to elemicin, and elemicin itself are causing the essential oils effects. Which would help prove elemicin and its counterparts activity
 
What are we talking about here? Pure elemicin or some extract of nutmeg?

my personal experience after eating a large amount of nutmeg was terrifying and dysphoric
 
SmilexGwG said:
Does nutmeg essential oil produce the cannabinoid like effects that regular nutmeg does? Or is it more "psychedelic"
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I don't specifically recall it feeling particularly cannabinoid-like. There was a uniqueness to it but it didn't feel quite like that, it's hard to place exactly what it felt like, sort of like it just had some extra modulatory effects that other psychedelics might not, probably due to the different sort of chemical structure. Allylbenzenes can bind to things like GABA(A) and NMDA receptors too for instance. In general, it just felt mostly like a psychedelic. I may be biased, but I actually thought that the psychedelic and visionary effects combined seemed relatively similar to those described for MMDA, which is the amphetamine equivalent of myristicin.

SmilexGwG said:
Because the compound responsible for the cannabinoid effects of nutmeg is licarin A which acts as a FAAH Inhibitor. I dont think this compound is actually present in the essential oil though. If the effects of nutmeg essential oil werent cannabinoid like, than its likely the allybezenes that are very similar to elemicin, and elemicin itself are causing the essential oils effects. Which would help prove elemicin and its counterparts activity
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I'm near certain that the allylbenzenes are responsible for the effects, considering that most other chemicals present in nutmeg essential oil can be found in cannabis. My oil may or may not contain much elemicin itself though, as the numbers seem to vary a lot. If myristicin is active though then I don't see why elemicin couldn't be.

Snafu of the Forest said:
What are we talking about here? Pure elemicin or some extract of nutmeg?

my personal experience after eating a large amount of nutmeg was terrifying and dysphoric
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I've never taken the nutmeg nuts themselves, but every account I've ever seen of someone whose used both them and the essential oil has said that the oil totally lacks the negative feelings and side effects of the nut and hits way harder. For me it was a totally clean, euphoric, refreshing, and hugely hallucinogenic psychedelic trip.
 
The activity of nutmeg does not come from elemicin or myristicin, which are likely mostly inactive.

Nutmeg has inhibitors of enzymes that break down endocannabinoids, this is where the effects come from, this is also why it takes such a long time for it to kick in
 
HOOH said:
The activity of nutmeg does not come from elemicin or myristicin, which are likely mostly inactive.
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Both chemicals actually have established activity and have been believed by the scientific community to be some of the likely active chemicals of nutmeg for decades and still are, even if there are others too.

HOOH said:
Nutmeg has inhibitors of enzymes that break down endocannabinoids, this is where the effects come from, this is also why it takes such a long time for it to kick in
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This may be true for whole nuts, but nutmeg essential oil kicks in in less than an hour. Nutmeg is also about more than just cannabinoid effects even if those are easily attainable, there are plenty of reports out there to support the existence of additional components such as ones of a psychedelic or delirious nature, which match well to the effects of nutmeg essential oil.
 
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Evaluation of 5-HT2A Receptor Agonistic Property of Elemicin
Canarium luzonicum L. (Burseraceae), also known as Manila elemi and, in the Philippines, as sahing or pili is a tree commonly harvested for its oleoresin which is processed further into oil for export. The oil contains elemicin, which is said to have psychedelic properties due to the activation of the 5-HT2A receptors. 5-HT2A receptor agonists increase motor behaviors and cognitive learning and are also associated with mania while 5-HT2A receptor antagonists decrease motor behaviors and cognitive learning and other features of depression. In rats administered intraperitoneally with corn oil, immobility time was higher by an average of 97 to 152 seconds in tail-suspension test and lower in the number of head-twitches (19 to 8 ), number of rearing (20 to 5), ambulation (70 to 18 ), and speed (0.70 to 0.19 squares per minute) in open-field test compared to the elemicin (80mg/kg) group. Higher motor behaviors, namely mobility time, rearing, ambulation and speed and occurrence of head-twitches in rodents signify 5-HT2A receptor activation. To confirm the 5-HT2A receptor agonistic property of elemicin, clozapine, a 5-HT2A receptor antagonist was administered to block the effects of 5-HT2a receptor activation. In rats administered intraperitoneally with clozapine (10mg/kg) prior to elemicin, immobility time was higher by an average of 97 to 199 seconds in tail suspension test and lower in the number of head-twitches (19 to 2), number of rearing (20 to 5), ambulation (70 to 19), and speed (0.70 to 0.19 squares per minute) in the open-field test compared to the elemicin group. The effects of elemicin were abolished when clozapine was administered prior to elemicin, which demonstrates that clozapine prevents elemicin from binding to the 5-HT2A receptor. All these results serve to demonstrate the 5-HT2A receptor agonistic effect of elemicin.
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5-HT receptors as novel targets for optimizing pigmentary responses in dorsal skin melanophores of frog, Hoplobatrachus tigerinus
Key results: 5-HT exerted strong concentration-dependent pigment dispersion at threshold dose of 1 × 10(-6) g·mL(-1). Specific 5-HT(1) and 5-HT(2) receptor agonists, sumatriptan and myristicin. also induced dose-dependent dispersion. Yohimbine and metergoline synergistically antagonized sumatriptan-mediated dispersion, whereas trazodone partially blocked myristicin-induced dispersion. Conversely, 5-HT(3) and 5-HT(4) receptor agonists, 1 (3 chlorophenyl) biguanide (1,3 CPB) and 5-methoxytryptamine (5-MT), caused a dose-dependent pigment aggregation. The aggregatory effect of 1,3 CPB was completely blocked by ondansetron, whereas L-lysine partially blocked the effect of 5-MT.
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5-HT receptor subtypes as key targets in mediating pigment dispersion within melanophores of teleost, Oreochromis mossambicus
The presence of distinct class of 5-HT receptors in the melanophores of tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus) is reported. The cellular responses to 5-HT (5-hydroxytryptamine), 5-HT(1), and 5-HT(2), agonists on isolated scale melanophores were observed with regard to pigment translocation within the cells. It was found that 5-HT exerted rapid and strong concentration dependent pigment granule dispersion within the melanophores. The threshold pharmacological dose of 5-HT that could elicit a measurable response was as low as 4.7×10(-12) M/L. Selective 5-HT(1) and 5-HT(2) agonists, sumatriptan and myristicin were investigated and resulted in dose-dependent pigment dispersion. The dispersing effects were effectively antagonized by receptor specific antagonists.
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HOOH said:
The activity of nutmeg does not come from elemicin or myristicin, which are likely mostly inactive.

Nutmeg has inhibitors of enzymes that break down endocannabinoids, this is where the effects come from, this is also why it takes such a long time for it to kick in
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Yep im aware of this, Licarin A causes inhibition of FAAH.

But the essential oil does not contain as much Licarin A or its analougs as the whole nutmeg does, so it feels very unique which is be attributed to the many phenylpropanes in nutmeg essential oil
 
The essential oil likely doesn't contain any licarin A at all, for the record. It's usually almost entirely myristicin and a terpene like sabinene and then small amounts of other allylbenzenes and terpenes.
 
Kaleida said:
The essential oil likely doesn't contain any licarin A at all, for the record. It's usually almost entirely myristicin and a terpene like sabinene and then small amounts of other allylbenzenes and terpenes.
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Thats what i was thinking but the information is hard to find online anywhere
 
I posted a bunch about the likely toxicity of elemicin and other alkylbenzenes here on Bluelight

There's a short abstract indicating that elemicin specifically is likely to be hepatoxic in rats here.

There are lots of legalish psychedelics out there that are reliable and aren't suspected to be toxic. They don't require that you deactivate liver enzymes or overwhelm essential organs with brute force. I decided that I would stick to the ones like that. I can't think of much reason to risk hurting my liver to maybe trip when I don't have to.

FWIW IIRC, Sasha Shulgin had bottles of elemi, nutmeg, and parsley oil sitting on a shelf in his lab, presumably for use as precursors, but who knows. They were sitting right next to some weird, sentimental-looking decorations. I tried to find the picture, but I think I lost it when I was trying to make backups.
 
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You don't actually (necessarily) have to use enzyme inhibitors or anything to get effects from nutmeg essential oil or elemi essential oil (based on what I've read) and I wouldn't recommend it. I like finding new active drugs but experimenting with novel substances while adding tons of similarly novel metabolism-shifting drugs into the mix is crazy.

I've said this before, but I just personally don't find the risk of toxicity to rise to a level of concern for the degree I have interest in these oils; that will obviously differ for everyone. I've used nutmeg essential oil four times in the many, many years I've been interested in it, and no other oils so far. I worry a lot more about what I've done to my body with my limited use of methoxetamine than I do about that.

For me, the reason is that it's just not identical to other psychedelics, there are no other drugs that are nearly exactly like nutmeg essential oil for me. If I felt my mental health depended on the therapeutic effects I get from nutmeg essential oil and I only had every other psychedelic in existence to choose from I'd be SOL. I don't go that far with it, though I do actually find it pretty therapeutic in general, but again not enough that I've used it more than four times.
 
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