Opioids Depression from opoid PAWS is so long and hard to deal with

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

It just goes onnnnn and on. I did use on and off for several years, but even with kratom I just feel blank and everything is flat and miserable. Gets better a little bit with time until it does not. I'm expecting maybe even a year of this.. but perhaps also others have suggestions on something herb like or multivitamins even to help that go away. It really does encourage me to relapse so I can be like, "oh that's all that was" and feel 100% normal like magic again.

I do not even withdraw physically at this point. I suppose I knew I would have to face something like this but when its happening it is a bit harder than I expected it to be. Hard to appreciate anything. The reason I found opioids to improve the quality of my life to begin with is because I've always felt a bit of anhedonia my entire life. It truly sucks that the one thing that makes me engaged with life and want to be involved in it was opioids (beyond expensive and unfeasible with huge tolerance/life ruining later on). I don't know where to go from here. I really found myself solidly happy for a long time with pharmaceutical goodness.

 

[Xorkoth]

Do you exercise? Daily working out with cardio and strength training (weights or body exercises like push ups) is the biggest factor in recovering after acute withdrawal BY FAR. So many people hear this and sort of roll their eyes, but it's seriously a game changer. Whenever I am done with acute withdrawal I just start working out hard every day and in no time I feel great. Without that, the symptoms just keep dragging on.

It also helps tremendously to find a hobby or something you really enjoy doing, as opposed to sitting around waiting to feel better. Occupying the mind is very important, too.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's rough. However, I think the most difficult part is psychological.

But it definitely gets easier and better. Eventually I stopped thinking about opiates or heroin altogether. Truly, I don't even think about it anymore. Maybe once per month I get a trigger but it's rare.

It does take some time, but getting your mind onto new things helps tremendously.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Do you exercise? Daily working out with cardio and strength training (weights or body exercises like push ups) is the biggest factor in recovering after acute withdrawal BY FAR. So many people hear this and sort of roll their eyes, but it's seriously a game changer. Whenever I am done with acute withdrawal I just start working out hard every day and in no time I feel great. Without that, the symptoms just keep dragging on.

It also helps tremendously to find a hobby or something you really enjoy doing, as opposed to sitting around waiting to feel better. Occupying the mind is very important, too.

I do a bit and go on longer walks but nothing gym like or weight-lifting. I'll see what I can do about that because I just keep waking up and being like "again ugh boring."

 

[Jabberwocky]

I do a bit and go on longer walks but nothing gym like or weight-lifting. I'll see what I can do about that because I just keep waking up and being like "again ugh boring."

mmm, runner's high is very real thing my friend

being 100% honest, the high I get after jogging 3+ miles rivals a lot of drugs. It's obviously more subtle, but endorphins and adrenaline are VERY euphoric and good. Running a 5k, coming home and then taking a nap while watching TV is one of the most euphoric drugs I've known.

Not suggesting you start running marathons, but the feeling after running vs a long walk is a lot different

Just a thought.

 

[LivingOnValium]

I'm feel you OP. I'm like that too. I've always had issues with depression and anhedonia, even before i started doing hard drugs (at the age of 18 ). Now today after over two decades of poly drug abuse (in beginning it was mostly stimulants but later mainly opiods and other downers) it's gone much worse. I've had a long stretch of sobriety (7 years) and even then i would struggle with the same issues. I started using again then i stopped again (for 1 year). Then i came to the conclusion that my quality of life is better on opioids and decided to start using buprenorphine because it allows me to be fully functional and doesn't get me intoxicated. I bought subs from street dealers and friends in the beginning but am currently in a buprenorphine maintenance program (which actually started today. I'm so happy about it).

I changed my perspective on buprenorphine. I no longer consider it as a recreational drug. I see it as psychiatric medication for my depression and anxiety. I've tried almost all the possible antidepressants available and none have helped me. I also plan to stay on bupe for long term, possibly never coming off.

I don't recommend taking opioids. It's better to live without them if possible. But if everything else fails then considering opioid maintenance is a viable option.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I do a bit and go on longer walks but nothing gym like or weight-lifting. I'll see what I can do about that because I just keep waking up and being like "again ugh boring."

If I had to outline one thing that helped me the most, and is still helping, when I stopped buprenorphine - it is exercise. Both lifting weights and cardio. It really helps but you have to put some true effort (although only taking a walks beats nothing). Exercise is proven as useful as SSRIs for treating depression. Please don't say "I'll do it." to yourself and forget about it - start exercising. You will feel better, I promise. Some people need some medications, sometimes for the rest of their lives, but everyone needs exercise. If it could come in the pill form it would be most used medication, I am sure of that. Hope you get better @GetMeOutOfThisCRAP .

 

[JackARoe]

I'm feel you OP. I'm like that too. I've always had issues with depression and anhedonia, even before i started doing hard drugs (at the age of 18 ).

This is such an important point. For me it gets cosmic. I think life is naturally anhedonic and as humans we find ways to spread the love. Music, art, sports, all just distractions from the fact that a giant spirit is stuck in a small confining physical body and we have to take care of it as it breaks down lol Like our spirit knows there is so much more to make us happy. But with that notion at some point our spirit will be freed.

Better days ahead. Apologies for taking it deep but I have been trying to reconcile why life sucks. lol Honestly as I get older even dreams fade. But I look forward to wherever this journey leads.

Feel better everyone. I will try too.

 

[papercuts]

This is such an important point. For me it gets cosmic. I think life is naturally anhedonic and as humans we find ways to spread the love. Music, art, sports, all just distractions from the fact that a giant spirit is stuck in a small confining physical body and we have to take care of it as it breaks down lol Like our spirit knows there is so much more to make us happy. But with that notion at some point our spirit will be freed.

Better days ahead. Apologies for taking it deep but I have been trying to reconcile why life sucks. lol Honestly as I get older even dreams fade. But I look forward to wherever this journey leads.

Feel better everyone. I will try too.

That is such a beautiful thought, thank you for sharing it.

 

[papercuts]

I think I tapered too quick. Is it usual to take a little just to ease the stomach cramps and diarrhea? Or does that inevitably lead down a path to failure?

 

[Jabberwocky]

It is better to take therapeutic dose of loperamide. You are the one who is to decide how much do you wanna prolong the withdrawal. You can use and not relapse fully or you could relapse fully. No guarantees if you take it. Do your best and that is all you can do. I will say that some discomfort after (pro)long use of high dose will be inevitable for body to reach homeostasis. Every time you lessen the withdrawal with tapentadol you are prolonging it. It's your call. I know how opioid withdrawal can be miserable. Hope you get to the other side soon.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm feel you OP. I'm like that too. I've always had issues with depression and anhedonia, even before i started doing hard drugs (at the age of 18 ). Now today after over two decades of poly drug abuse (in beginning it was mostly stimulants but later mainly opiods and other downers) it's gone much worse. I've had a long stretch of sobriety (7 years) and even then i would struggle with the same issues. I started using again then i stopped again (for 1 year). Then i came to the conclusion that my quality of life is better on opioids and decided to start using buprenorphine because it allows me to be fully functional and doesn't get me intoxicated. I bought subs from street dealers and friends in the beginning but am currently in a buprenorphine maintenance program (which actually started today. I'm so happy about it).

I changed my perspective on buprenorphine. I no longer consider it as a recreational drug. I see it as psychiatric medication for my depression and anxiety. I've tried almost all the possible antidepressants available and none have helped me. I also plan to stay on bupe for long term, possibly never coming off.

I don't recommend taking opioids. It's better to live without them if possible. But if everything else fails then considering opioid maintenance is a viable option.

I was exactly like this. Got buprenorphine off the streets first, it got me a nice high and I wasn't in withdrawal a few hours later. So I eventually just switched to it and then went and got on it legally and have been on it now for almost 5 years.

I know what you mean about it being like a psychiatric medicine. Hopefully I don't scare you but after 5 years of being on it, I actually hate it now and am back to craving any drug I can get constantly. It no longer provides total depression relief, the extra energy turned into lethargy & it makes me so damn tired and groggy all day. But at the same time, I am conflicted cause I feel like I live a better life on opioids (and possibly stimulants) as well, but bupe just gives out eventually & raising the dose does nothing at all. It does have a long honeymoon phase though & I still do give it credit for curbing any desire in me to go back to drinking alcohol at least. But in the long run, I think it'd almost be better to be on some kind of rotating schedule of full agonist opioids rather than this partial little tickle every day.

I also found that I am starting to get chronic aches in my body, either from my depression or hyperalgesia from my 20+ years of drugs use. I can't tell. But the bupe does nothing for the pain & now I'm worried that no doctor will ever give me any sort of opioid or recreational pain killer whatsoever, ever again, even if I'm truly in pain. Merely because I will carry this "heroin addict" stigma with me everywhere now thanks to Suboxone being on my record.

I'm struggling bad with cravings and depression currently too as far as the OP goes. And yeah exercise can help, but it will only get you so far. For some people who's issues are just too much, it can take too much effort to keep up with it. And of course exercise won't stop a true drug addict from seeking out that feeling of well being again. I've come to accept that this is how I am and that I always need something.

I wish I could say it gets better but honestly, for me anyway, it seems to get worse as I get older and my body breaks down further. The thought of moving somewhere where euthanasia for severely depressed people is legal has crossed my mind a few times. It's just too bad that society see's killing yourself as the only other option, when if they'd just allow me to medicate with what I'd like to medicate with, I might actually have a nice life. Isn't that something?

God forbid we allow depressed people to feel euphoric! The moral fabric of society would totally shatter!!!!



Good luck & much love to everybody.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I did not expect this thread to become spiritual but it was actually a nice surprise. I would get onto a suboxone maintenance program if everything else fails... its just for some reason suboxone effects my sex drive and libido strangely past the point that opioids never do. Kind of hard being in a relationship if your little one can't get hard or in the mood

Returning is very easy, but staying off for months after months is incredibly hard if even possible at times.

Also I'm going to buy running shoes very soon promise.

 

[-FromonetOanotheR-]

Ok, so I will start of by saying, I'm not one post on here or any forum for that matter. Mostly a, lurker, reader, researcher, and analyzer. Definitely support harm reduction as well as informational forums like this one and similar ones. Im very appreciative for the knowledge acquired from members and posts on here and many forums of all kinds. I am truly a believer of Knowledge is Power and Ends Suffering.

For that reason I will participate in Posting a reply for the OP and Any Another Person that is Suffering From any Range of Depression due Opioid Use Discontinuation. Truly Unnecessary and painfully sucks and causes relapse for those that are coming these Extremely Helpfull and Equally Addictive Chemicals.

The most effective Natural Chemical/Supplement for this has been DLPA or DL-phenylalinine. It is an Essential Amino Acid that your Brain uses as a precursor to Dopamine, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine. Its legal and can be bought on Ebay or Amazon fairly cheaply. This Supplement works and has been a GOD SEND for me when I've taken long Tolerance Breaks off Opioids. Start at low dosages and work your way as you need (I found that 150mg every 3-4hrs was perfect for me, though this is not common dosage, kinda low for many) I will leave a link at the End with more details.

Another Natural Supplement that has helped tremendously is Black Cumin or Nigella Sativa. Though this supplement is more for the beginning and middle stages of Opioid withdrawal. This supplement has many health benefits, however I will only focus on what pertains to Opioids, which are: calcium channel blocking properties (same as opioids, though with less intensity), anti-inflammatory and boosts immune system response. Its natural and can be taken even if your not combating Opioid withdrawal, to live a healthier life. Again this can be found on Ebay and Amazon fairly cheaply. I will leave a Link to a Great Article Study Done with evidence.

As with Any Supplementation of New compounds always start at lowest dose possible(regardless of suggestest dose on websites) and increase to where you feel comfortable. Also Im not a Doctor or Any Medical Professional for that matter. All Information posted here is based off my experience and fact based studies. Always consult with your Doctor before starting any new supplement or chemical.

I apologize if this has been a late response to OP and others as well as a little bit lengthy Reply. I tried to shorten and summarize while still hitting key points. HOPEFULLY I didn't reply too late for those who really need help with Depression from PAWS and Depression in general. No one should have to suffer unnecessarily because they don't know or don't have the proper TOOLS.

Peace and Progress to all.

DLPA: Benefits, Dosing, Where To Buy, And More!

Full review of DLPA, can improve cognition & attention & possibly treat symptoms of ADHD. Dosage, side effects included.

holisticnootropics.com

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24348803_A_new_and_novel_treatment_of_opioid_dependence_Nigella_sativa_500_mg

 

[papercuts]

Ok, so I will start of by saying, I'm not one post on here or any forum for that matter. Mostly a, lurker, reader, researcher, and analyzer. Definitely support harm reduction as well as informational forums like this one and similar ones. Im very appreciative for the knowledge acquired from members and posts on here and many forums of all kinds. I am truly a believer of Knowledge is Power and Ends Suffering.

For that reason I will participate in Posting a reply for the OP and Any Another Person that is Suffering From any Range of Depression due Opioid Use Discontinuation. Truly Unnecessary and painfully sucks and causes relapse for those that are coming these Extremely Helpfull and Equally Addictive Chemicals.

The most effective Natural Chemical/Supplement for this has been DLPA or DL-phenylalinine. It is an Essential Amino Acid that your Brain uses as a precursor to Dopamine, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine. Its legal and can be bought on Ebay or Amazon fairly cheaply. This Supplement works and has been a GOD SEND for me when I've taken long Tolerance Breaks off Opioids. Start at low dosages and work your way as you need (I found that 150mg every 3-4hrs was perfect for me, though this is not common dosage, kinda low for many) I will leave a link at the End with more details.

Another Natural Supplement that has helped tremendously is Black Cumin or Nigella Sativa. Though this supplement is more for the beginning and middle stages of Opioid withdrawal. This supplement has many health benefits, however I will only focus on what pertains to Opioids, which are: calcium channel blocking properties (same as opioids, though with less intensity), anti-inflammatory and boosts immune system response. Its natural and can be taken even if your not combating Opioid withdrawal, to live a healthier life. Again this can be found on Ebay and Amazon fairly cheaply. I will leave a Link to a Great Article Study Done with evidence.

As with Any Supplementation of New compounds always start at lowest dose possible(regardless of suggestest dose on websites) and increase to where you feel comfortable. Also Im not a Doctor or Any Medical Professional for that matter. All Information posted here is based off my experience and fact based studies. Always consult with your Doctor before starting any new supplement or chemical.

I apologize if this has been a late response to OP and others as well as a little bit lengthy Reply. I tried to shorten and summarize while still hitting key points. HOPEFULLY I didn't reply too late for those who really need help with Depression from PAWS and Depression in general. No one should have to suffer unnecessarily because they don't know or don't have the proper TOOLS.

Peace and Progress to all.

DLPA: Benefits, Dosing, Where To Buy, And More!

Full review of DLPA, can improve cognition & attention & possibly treat symptoms of ADHD. Dosage, side effects included.

holisticnootropics.com

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24348803_A_new_and_novel_treatment_of_opioid_dependence_Nigella_sativa_500_mg

Thanks for posting, you never know what might be the thing to delay or even prevent a relapse.

 

[blackmarket91]

yeah it truly sucks i came off methadone 7 months ago and my bodys been a total wreck ever since im about to try to find an addiction specialist to see what the deal is everything hurts all the time and im young still

i hope its just the paws doing this and will subside over time constantly having to stretch my body out yawning ect

 

[BeachBum4u]

I personally use medical cannabis to help me. It has been incredible, especially for the depression! I realize it's not for everyone but if you're up for it, I'd bet it will at lesdt lift your spirits some.

 

[-FromonetOanotheR-]

I personally use medical cannabis to help me. It has been incredible, especially for the depression! I realize it's not for everyone but if you're up for it, I'd bet it will at lesdt lift your spirits some.

I have to agree with you on that at least in short term as far the relief from depression goes. Though in the long term as tolerance builds, cannabis ends you making you depressed, unmotivated and somewhat lethargic. Atleast it did for me and took me long time to realize since cannabis is mental stimulant and a relaxant at the same time. As long as its short term cool however, be careful and cautious long term due to rebound depression but won't notice since its apart of the stoning effect while high. THC is a very tricky and elusive chemical.

 

[burn out]

I just wanted to chime in and say opiate PAWS was never really a big issue for me, and I was pretty severely dependent on opiates for about 4 or 5 years shooting over a gram of heroin a day at the worst. The PAWS always cleared up after 2-3 months. It's nothing compared to benzo PAWS, which I am convinced is a result of brain damage since I've been off benzos 12 years now and never recovered to my pre benzo self and I didn't even take benzos nearly as long as I took opiates.

So my advice is to stick it out, exercise, eat right, maybe take some herbs to relieve it a bit like kava for anxiety, depression and muscle aches, valerian for sleep, wintergreen oil and ginseng can provide energy and improve mood and be thankful you don't have to deal with acute withdrawals anymore cause those are the worst.

 

[Xorkoth]

My belief is that long-term intractable PAWS happens with opiates when people do not change their lifestyles and do not work to repair themselves and live healthier lives after quitting. Daily exercise is the single most important factor in recovering more quickly from opiate abuse. And for living a healthy and good-feeling life in general. Eating well is big, too. As is removing sources of chronic emotional pain from your life, and filling your time with activities that make you feel fulfilled and prevent boredom and apathy.

PAWS certainly exists and can last some time, but someone experiencing it a year later is feeling bad for other reasons, which can be really hard to realize when you've been feeling bad from residual opiate withdrawal for quite a while. It's easy to see how someone could fail to realize that they still feel bad for other reasons.