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Opioids Depression from opoid PAWS is so long and hard to deal with

Hello everyone. I'd like to relay on this thread that my laptop had been smited violently by "water damage" which somehow caused it to have a giant crack in the middle. Don't ask because I have no idea why either lol. I don't use bluelight on my smartphone. Forums are just too tiny there.
I can't recall how long it has been nor do I want to scroll up 3 seconds and confirm by dates.. but the answers here were really insightful and deeper than I thought they would be--so I am going to respond now and maybe this thread can help others too.

The withdrawal was not bad after my stimulus opioid run. Great use of the American taxpayer dollars. Maybe not but that was about two months ago right before making this thread. I barely withdrew physically after 4 blues per day--for about 3-4 weeks (120 milligrams daily on average) with 30 mgs per sitting for the "lets not care about life at all but feel really good while still being alive for the next hour." I basically cold turkeyed it but have been on kratom daily for years--and oxy on and off that for 5. I have experience dealing with oxy/fent withdrawal and knew exactly how to deal with that (with the exception of the long term depression). I don't have the money to keep it up, especially when the price of oxy drove up from 1 dollar per milligram to a whopping 2. This truly makes the difference in a user and his/her/... they's habits. More oxy at a cheaper price = more fun with less financial misery but probably more life ruining after some time. After the horrors of a fent withdrawal I went through from cleanly pressed high quality fent, oxy withdrawal mentally and physically became a walk-in-the-park. Kratom wouldn't put a dent in my fent withdrawal, but oxy withdrawal is truly quite manageable with some good kratom.

How am I doing now? I actually feel 'pretty' good. I won't say really because that's a lie. I'm still facing residual depression (yet less and less). I reached a point with oxy and friends like it that my testosterone must have been at its lowest. I felt shitty all the time and even on the high. Perpetually just sedated and gloomy when at the beginning of my opioid chronicles Percocet was better than coffee and adderall too. Opioids were a powerful stimulant that kept me awake and feeling alert with focus and ambition even after a night of zero sleep. Fast-forward, and suddenly even on doses that were the same as before at some points (when it did feel like a stimulant), I was facing fatigue and a lack of motivation that I never had faced before.

Getting off opioids for the first time in my life felt good. I was still going through withdrawal and such, but "good" in the sense that I did not feel physically poisoned anymore. It started to feel like that.. yeah. Opioids never felt good to be off of in the past. I would crave that rush that made me engaged in life and love everything about it. There was no point of getting off it in the past when it felt that damn good. Really no point. WHO CARES about losing their future as a potential risk, or even their life when opiates hit your receptors and then that's exactly what life is about. I don't care about the rest when it feels that good lol. There is no life besides oxy/percocet in the beginning. So strangely I am not craving it much at all these days. I really haven't used once for the past 2 months since this thread has been commented on a lot. I suppose 5 years even with breaks is more than enough time to make opioids really suck. The high was a negative experience actually at the very end. I knew very quickly that I had benefitted more than most have within that time period, and then it was about to turn into a living hell if I kept on trucking. I have had a year of clean time prior off of oxy, while using only once or twice per month within that year. It never felt good to be off it that year by the way. I always missed it dearly. Not really now without lying in a thread to make everyone feel good and trick myself into 'doing the right thing.' I truly and genuinely do feel better off of it. Its bizarre to me too.

I don't know if I'll ever use oxy again (probably to recall the good old days and see if I can remember how it felt in reality again), but I feel done with it actually. Done with it in a way that even if I did use for 2-3 days in a row I've really pounded my brain with that drug so much that I'm kind of just not excited by it like I used to. It was hell at the end and everyone knew I was on drugs... from someone who has gotten away with it and being stellar at seeming not-on-oxy at the time and place you could just not be on oxy hah. I turned into someone who could no longer hide it..

Didn't help that about 8 people within my close-life had a "close talk with me" some awkward time and place about how "you are totally on something all the time can you please get help." Lol... that was annoying actually but I could tell they really wanted me to not ruin my life with oxy. I guess that's good.
 
Have you considered consulting with a psychiatrist or psychologist, OP? I say that because of this:
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
The reason I found opioids to improve the quality of my life to begin with is because I've always felt a bit of anhedonia my entire life.
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I mean the psychiatric field gets a lot of criticism, much of it justified, but perhaps someone whose spent some time studying consciousness, perception etc. can give you some insights, who knows. If you don't want to take a route involving psychiatric drugs, you can make that clear to them. Sometimes it's just helpful to get an outside observer's take on your situation.

I've seen a lot of people mention eating right and getting a suitable amount of physical exercise. That's good too, just as a general rule for everyone. Plus sometimes people just need another activity to throw their energies into, and exercise can be that thing, presumably more healthy than whatever they're trying to abstain from
 
burn out said:
I just wanted to chime in and say opiate PAWS was never really a big issue for me, and I was pretty severely dependent on opiates for about 4 or 5 years shooting over a gram of heroin a day at the worst. The PAWS always cleared up after 2-3 months. It's nothing compared to benzo PAWS, which I am convinced is a result of brain damage since I've been off benzos 12 years now and never recovered to my pre benzo self and I didn't even take benzos nearly as long as I took opiates.

So my advice is to stick it out, exercise, eat right, maybe take some herbs to relieve it a bit like kava for anxiety, depression and muscle aches, valerian for sleep, wintergreen oil and ginseng can provide energy and improve mood and be thankful you don't have to deal with acute withdrawals anymore cause those are the worst.
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12 years off benzos and still not back to pre-benzo life! Jesus Christ… I’ve been on low dose klonopin for 5 years with some brief but heavy Xanax and etizolam abuse while still taking the kpins. How bad is it looking for me?
 
I wouldn't know. I get 2 months and back at it. I'm in alot of pain so that don't help but the depression is awful
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
It just goes onnnnn and on. I did use on and off for several years, but even with kratom I just feel blank and everything is flat and miserable. Gets better a little bit with time until it does not. I'm expecting maybe even a year of this.. but perhaps also others have suggestions on something herb like or multivitamins even to help that go away. It really does encourage me to relapse so I can be like, "oh that's all that was" and feel 100% normal like magic again.

I do not even withdraw physically at this point. I suppose I knew I would have to face something like this but when its happening it is a bit harder than I expected it to be. Hard to appreciate anything. The reason I found opioids to improve the quality of my life to begin with is because I've always felt a bit of anhedonia my entire life. It truly sucks that the one thing that makes me engaged with life and want to be involved in it was opioids (beyond expensive and unfeasible with huge tolerance/life ruining later on). I don't know where to go from here. I really found myself solidly happy for a long time with pharmaceutical goodness.
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Been there, and yes...PAWS is a real bitch, for sure. But stick with it and it will get better. I recall a time when I was convinced I would never be happy again after being a slave to Fent, Morphine, Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, etc. And yes...is sure is hard when you feel such low energy, no motivation, depressed, anxious, but again...stick with it and it will get better. I agree with trying to commit to things like consistent physical activity, whether it be walking, riding a bike, and so on. Start slow, though. Do not be overly ambitious and really take it slow. You do not need to overdo it...but try and commit to a plan that works for you. It is one of the things that helped pull me out of the lingering PAWS over the course of a few months. Take care of yourself and try and focus on every day as an opportunity to do any little thing that may help, and again, I know it's hard, but if I can do it, so can you. Take good care and good luck. It will get better. I know that doesn't help much today, perhaps, but you have to take care of yourself as hard as it may be. I was deep in the shit for a good long while, and now...feeling pretty damn good with no drugs absence a psychedelic experience 2 or 3 times a year. Peace.
 
The Shadow Self said:
Been there, and yes...PAWS is a real bitch, for sure. But stick with it and it will get better. I recall a time when I was convinced I would never be happy again after being a slave to Fent, Morphine, Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, etc. And yes...is sure is hard when you feel such low energy, no motivation, depressed, anxious, but again...stick with it and it will get better. I agree with trying to commit to things like consistent physical activity, whether it be walking, riding a bike, and so on. Start slow, though. Do not be overly ambitious and really take it slow. You do not need to overdo it...but try and commit to a plan that works for you. It is one of the things that helped pull me out of the lingering PAWS over the course of a few months. Take care of yourself and try and focus on every day as an opportunity to do any little thing that may help, and again, I know it's hard, but if I can do it, so can you. Take good care and good luck. It will get better. I know that doesn't help much today, perhaps, but you have to take care of yourself as hard as it may be. I was deep in the shit for a good long while, and now...feeling pretty damn good with no drugs absence a psychedelic experience 2 or 3 times a year. Peace.
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I just feel very blank these days. I don't really crave opioids but very uncertain of what the rest of my life will be like without something to cut the edge off. I won't be going back though. I wanted to play that game for a while now but something about the thought of even the finest Purdue pharmaceuticals just leaves me circling back to the end. Feeling so fatigued, useless, and zombie-like. It was almost much worse than ahedonia.

As for the user that asked about psychiatric connections, I think I would like to try that one day. Just after I get past these PAWS. I don't know if I should relay my history with opioids/adderall abuse. I feel in a pretty good place right now all-considering. I definitely feel depression if I am sitting around doing nothing. It's easy to get hit by that in the mornings for some reason. Waking up anxious.. probably the worst side-effect so far.

I have done opioids into oblivion really. I don't want to think about how much money blown on it. Seems like a common way people finally get off oxy-heroin is that it just no longer feels good, and to the point that no one could pay them to get on it again because they never forget how much it started to suck. The high will always lead to that inevitably unless you are one of those rare 30-year-long junkies with somehow benefitting still from the drugs.
 
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burn out said:
Well they do get better over the years but for some people some symptoms linger for decades.
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I mean that would be from a very powerful benzo use I'd imagine. Someone even on 2 years of 2 milligrams daily would probably have PAWS that yes--lasted a long time--but I can't see that type of use being the one that causes people never to be normal again. Provided, there are so many different reasons that benzo use is warranted, but at a certain point one has to remember that hooked for life is a possible with benzodiazepines.
 
Vitamin B Complex + Zinc + Omega 3 fatty fish oil is essential (daily after a nice dinner)
followed by essential amino acids / building blocks for DAT/NE/SERT(l-tyrosine / phenylalanine)

Before retiring at night -
Magnesium Bisglycinate + Taurine hour or so before bedtime (great for sleep / calming nerves & mental stress
Passion Flower has GABA-A activity similar to benzos, reduces mental anxiety & stress, take before bed
Valerian/Hopps/Lemon Balm/Melatonin/also great for calming the mind & body

During the day -
Acetyl L Carnitine (ALCAR) is a great mood booster & energizer
Phenylpiracetam 50-100mg as a general stimulant,
Phenibut as an anxiolytic & moodbooster
Low dose Kratom ? combined with a gram of Phenibut…I’d imagine this would help with depression /opioid craving
 
I haven't read anything but your title. This thread might do well in Health and Recovery if you wanted it moved. Best thing I found for my PAWS was a hardcore workout routine. I hated myself for a couple of weeks but noticed the improvement. My PAWS was so bad that I couldn't will myself out of bed most days. Worst depression ever.
 
Yes. It is hard. It is painful. It is the most difficult thing you will ever do. It will be your crowning achievement in this universe yet you will be too ashamed to share your triumph with those around you. You've gotta keep that fire burning in your belly. It's you. You gotta do right by others, but doing right by others is and can only start from doing right by yourself.

Think about your campfire. You've been out there camping in the wilderness, having fun and enjoying nature and the relative warmth of 70 degree weather. You got a little too comfortable. You knew your hearth was losing fuel, but you were having sweet dreams and didn't want to be bothered. You awake 8 hours later to find a relatively moist pile of earth. How the fuck are you gonna get it back going? You've indulged in the comforts of this world a little bit too much and gaia has bit you.

Maybe you still have some smouldering ash. Perhaps you can cultivate this into a flame capable of keeping you warm and healthy. Perhaps not. You might have to go out into the woods, tired, thirsty, confused and hungry to find kindling. You might feel lik you can go no further so you stop and wait for death. Then you get up after a moment and realize that the red flower of man that burns in your belly is not yet quenched and you tell mother nature to go fuck herself.

You might have to sit there in the rain for hours with your flint trying to make fire. The rain is going to tell you that it is not possible. It is simply too heavy. No fire could exist in such a place. But you carry on, because our one singular purpose is to exist and to help others. You go for hours, maybe days with nothing. Then you see the ember amongst the twigs and dirt. It cannot be quenched. It will not go out so long as the fire in your own belly feeds it. In this way, you see how we are meant to help and be there for each other.

As the fire dances from one twig to one leave to another, you're amazed at what you have accomplished. You can't believe it, but this flame seems to be burning almost on its own initiative. You will slowly forget the hardships of the cold and rain as your thouths shift in the opposite direction.

Your fire is now burning in such a way that you need only feed it occasionally to keep it alive. You almost fear it will become to strong and overcome its environs. You will beging to understand that a tree can make one million matches and one match can burn down one million trees. You will have such heat and warmth inside of you and around you that you will attract others to your hearth and they will share in your glory.
 
I've probably said it in this thread before and certainly elsewhere on the forum, but exercise, exercise, exercise. It makes a HUGE difference in recovery, both physical but even moreso, mental/emotional. Getting your daily dopamine and endorphin fix from exercise produces a mood boosting effect that is substantial, and it greatly accelerates your neurochemical healing.

The other biggest factor is finding something to do with your time that makes you feel satisfied and fulfilled. But the first step (other than getting past acute withdrawal of course) is working out daily. It is really surprising how many people hear this advice and ignore it (not saying you are, OP, I don't know, but for the benefit 0f anyone reading this with the same problem... it's pretty much critical. Working out daily makes all the difference). It's difficult to get started and feels hard and unpleasant but only for a few days/a week... after that you'll start looking forward to your daily workout. Do an hour of it, half of that some good cardio and the other half weight training.
 
Keif' Richards said:
Yes. It is hard. It is painful. It is the most difficult thing you will ever do. It will be your crowning achievement in this universe yet you will be too ashamed to share your triumph with those around you. You've gotta keep that fire burning in your belly. It's you. You gotta do right by others, but doing right by others is and can only start from doing right by yourself.

Think about your campfire. You've been out there camping in the wilderness, having fun and enjoying nature and the relative warmth of 70 degree weather. You got a little too comfortable. You knew your hearth was losing fuel, but you were having sweet dreams and didn't want to be bothered. You awake 8 hours later to find a relatively moist pile of earth. How the fuck are you gonna get it back going? You've indulged in the comforts of this world a little bit too much and gaia has bit you.

Maybe you still have some smouldering ash. Perhaps you can cultivate this into a flame capable of keeping you warm and healthy. Perhaps not. You might have to go out into the woods, tired, thirsty, confused and hungry to find kindling. You might feel lik you can go no further so you stop and wait for death. Then you get up after a moment and realize that the red flower of man that burns in your belly is not yet quenched and you tell mother nature to go fuck herself.

You might have to sit there in the rain for hours with your flint trying to make fire. The rain is going to tell you that it is not possible. It is simply too heavy. No fire could exist in such a place. But you carry on, because our one singular purpose is to exist and to help others. You go for hours, maybe days with nothing. Then you see the ember amongst the twigs and dirt. It cannot be quenched. It will not go out so long as the fire in your own belly feeds it. In this way, you see how we are meant to help and be there for each other.

As the fire dances from one twig to one leave to another, you're amazed at what you have accomplished. You can't believe it, but this flame seems to be burning almost on its own initiative. You will slowly forget the hardships of the cold and rain as your thouths shift in the opposite direction.

Your fire is now burning in such a way that you need only feed it occasionally to keep it alive. You almost fear it will become to strong and overcome its environs. You will beging to understand that a tree can make one million matches and one match can burn down one million trees. You will have such heat and warmth inside of you and around you that you will attract others to your hearth and they will share in your glory.
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That is a very beautiful post.
 
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