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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Why are codeine and tramadol so crappy in terms of euphoria compared to other pharmaceutical opioids (oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine)?

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cowardescent

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Codeine and Tramadol are the two most common opioids that are issued in European countries. Codeine is OTC in many countries but if you go to your doctor for something stronger, they'll give you only Tramadol.

I had to laugh when my friend said that tramadol was euphoric. Sure, in a way it is, I believed that at first when I tried codeine and tramadol but when I then went to the U.S. af few years back and was given a Vicodin (hydrocodone) tablet, I was blown away. One 10mg tablet seemed more euphoric than 300mg of codeine phosphate and the euphoria came on in 30 minutes. The side effects were less (with the exception of itching that came on 3 hours later).

Might it have to do with addiction potential? I don't think codeine is as addictive on its own as much as hydro's or oxy's.
 
Any opioid can be very addictive, it's just that codeine and tramadol are not very efficient if you're looking to get high because they're essentially pro-drugs. They need to be metabolized by the liver in order to become opioids, mostly by an enzyme called CYP2D6 which actually has a pretty high degree of variability between people (depending on your ethnicity and stuff like that), some are very efficient while others are very slow
metabolizers. That's partly why some love codeine/tramadol while others consider them useless. After all, morphine and O-desmethyltramadol (active forms of codeine and tramadol) are pretty strong and potentially euphoric opioids.

Some of my bests highs were on tramadol.
 
4meSM said:
Any opioid can be very addictive, it's just that codeine and tramadol are not very efficient if you're looking to get high because they're essentially pro-drugs. They need to be metabolized by the liver in order to become opioids, mostly by an enzyme called CYP2D6 which actually has a pretty high degree of variability between people (depending on your ethnicity and stuff like that), some are very efficient while others are very slow
metabolizers. That's partly why some love codeine/tramadol while others consider them useless. After all, morphine and O-desmethyltramadol (active forms of codeine and tramadol) are pretty strong and potentially euphoric opioids.

Some of my bests highs were on tramadol.
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Yes I agree, Tramadol can give a great SSRI high in sufficient quantity, unfortunately the doses that get you really smashed lower your seizure threshold considerably. We used to get a real euphoric almost mdma like high but we also took a good dose of Keppra to ensure there were no seizures. This is of course risky, but we were young and totally invincible ofc. The high would last 12-24 hours of euphoria, as we would top up every 6-8 hours. Anyway we used to have tram-nights and they were fun. This is just my personal experience and I am not in anyway advising the use of tramadol to get high due to the seizure risk I am just reporting it's effects.

Peace and love
BBlunt
 
Funny little tidbit. The best high I have had in the past 3 years, better even that heroin I've used in that time, was when I took, I wanna say 400ishmg of tramadol crushed up and taken about a half hour before my regular 80mg methadone dose.

Dunno why but it was really good. Like it enormously amplified the opiate feeling of the methadone. Go figure.
 
Done them all except for hydrocodone since I'm in the UK and it doesn't exist here.
Felt the same with all of them (tramadol is a bit different since I never went above 400mg daily for fear of seizures) adjusting the dosages to be equivalent of course.
I went to oxy as it is so hyped up and it was exactly like dihydrocodeine for me (my usual opioid that's about twice as potent as codeine). Just needed less to get the same effect but can't say I got a different euphoria. Maybe it's just me but even heroin wasn't anything wowing for me and I've done it 3 times now and it was good quality heroin. Unfortunately I got some more to try last week from someone else to see if maybe the first time I had got shit quality heroin since I hadn't been left too impressed.
Codeine is a pro drug and every person metabolises it in the liver into morphine at different rates. Some cannot even metabolise it at all due to lack of the enzymes needed, so the reason why for some it's underwhelming is to do with their hepatic metabolism I guess.
Tramadol is a complex substance and so I wouldn't put it in the same category as pure opioids.
 
Hey OP. I would encourage you to do some more research on the subject. I think a big part of what you're lacking here, is the knowledge that people are different from one another. We have somatic desires, physical desires and desires that are more deep-seated in us that we acquire through genetics. You mention that you don't feel Codeine is addictive. This is patently false, because Codeine exerts the majority of its effects only after being demethylated from 3-Methyl Morphine to Morphine within the body. So, you would be implying that Morphine is essentially non-addictive, which we understand is not really accurate for most people.

I'm not condescending or anything. This is a lot of information to learn and try to understand. You just have to understand that different people get off on different stuff. It could be for chemical or genetic reasons, because of their life experience etc. I know you're not at all trying to do so, but abuse of weak Opioids like Tramadol is actually a pretty significant problem in a lot of places. It's easily accessible, often.
 
JessFR said:
Funny little tidbit. The best high I have had in the past 3 years, better even that heroin I've used in that time, was when I took, I wanna say 400ishmg of tramadol crushed up and taken about a half hour before my regular 80mg methadone dose.

Dunno why but it was really good. Like it enormously amplified the opiate feeling of the methadone. Go figure.
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400mg in one your brave :O
 
The problem with Codeine and Tramadol is they're pro-drugs meaning they need to be metabolised into their active metabolites by the liver to become pharmacologically active and this process is slow and inefficient which will have a massive effect on Euphoria. Opioids that are active by themselves (IE that dont need to be metabolised first to become active) tend to be the most euphoric for example: Dihydrocodeine, Hydrocodone, Oxycodone. Infact theres probably only one euphoric opioid thats a pro-drug and thats Heroin but Heroin is metabolised in a different way and much more rapidly than Codeine/Tramadol.
 
codeine it makes me feel itchy and some euphoria, tramadol I am kind of energetic and total euphoria (depends on tolerance), oxycodone for leisure and tramadol for work is how I live, the only problem is the price of oxycodone.
 
I take 200 mg of tramadol at the beginning and then I administer it, when it reaches 400 mg I take a clonazepam and it is just joy, but not every day because tolerance sucks.
 
BILLY-BLUNT said:
Yes I agree, Tramadol can give a great SSRI high in sufficient quantity, unfortunately the doses that get you really smashed lower your seizure threshold considerably. We used to get a real euphoric almost mdma like high but we also took a good dose of Keppra to ensure there were no seizures. This is of course risky, but we were young and totally invincible ofc. The high would last 12-24 hours of euphoria, as we would top up every 6-8 hours. Anyway we used to have tram-nights and they were fun. This is just my personal experience and I am not in anyway advising the use of tramadol to get high due to the seizure risk I am just reporting it's effects.

Peace and love
BBlunt
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Could you please explain an 'SSRI/SNRI high'?

You mean you notice an almost immediate antidepressant effect?
 
evo4ever said:
The problem with Codeine and Tramadol is they're pro-drugs meaning they need to be metabolised into their active metabolites by the liver to become pharmacologically active and this process is slow and inefficient which will have a massive effect on Euphoria. Opioids that are active by themselves (IE that dont need to be metabolised first to become active) tend to be the most euphoric for example: Dihydrocodeine, Hydrocodone, Oxycodone. Infact theres probably only one euphoric opioid thats a pro-drug and thats Heroin but Heroin is metabolised in a different way and much more rapidly than Codeine/Tramadol.
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pally pete said:
They should just do away with Codeine as a pain killer. I also though Tapentadol superseded Tramadol... It seems not so..
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This thread is getting a little bit out of hand guys. Nobody has done anything wrong or needs to feel badly, but we are moving away from what I believe the main principles of this forum are. We help people use drugs safely.

A. We don't rate drugs based upon their perceived enjoyment. If you're looking for a true answer to a question like this, all you will get are the opinions of others that don't ultimately have anything to do with you or your own experience. So we try to focus on more absolute stuff. We don't answer anything with complete or absolute certainty, but we try as hard as we can.

B. I'm really put off by conversations regarding using Tramadol in high doses, using seizure medication to theoretically prevent a seizure from occuring. I'm not saying it's not possible. However, Levetiracetam (Keppra) is a maintenance medication for seizure disorders. It's not a rescue medication like Benzodiazepines or Barbiturates. Please stop doing this, because I really don't want you to get hurt. I understand your thought process totally, but it's not really how it works.

I've definitely seen more than one thread in which individuals have discussed using Benzodiazepines as a sort of "insurance" against seizures when using doses of Tramadol higher than 300mg. I've reluctantly said okay, just because I feel that it is ultimately safer for them to take the medication. This is still a practice that is very risky. I think a lot of people have a belief that seizures are not as liable to kill a person as they really are. This is especially true when recreational drug users experience a seizure in isolation.

I'm not going to close it right now, but please try to keep it on point with our HR goals and principles.
 
Keif' Richards said:
This thread is getting a little bit out of hand guys. Nobody has done anything wrong or needs to feel badly, but we are moving away from what I believe the main principles of this forum are. We help people use drugs safely.

A. We don't rate drugs based upon their perceived enjoyment. If you're looking for a true answer to a question like this, all you will get are the opinions of others that don't ultimately have anything to do with you or your own experience. So we try to focus on more absolute stuff. We don't answer anything with complete or absolute certainty, but we try as hard as we can.

B. I'm really put off by conversations regarding using Tramadol in high doses, using seizure medication to theoretically prevent a seizure from occuring. I'm not saying it's not possible. However, Levetiracetam (Keppra) is a maintenance medication for seizure disorders. It's not a rescue medication like Benzodiazepines or Barbiturates. Please stop doing this, because I really don't want you to get hurt. I understand your thought process totally, but it's not really how it works.

I've definitely seen more than one thread in which individuals have discussed using Benzodiazepines as a sort of "insurance" against seizures when using doses of Tramadol higher than 300mg. I've reluctantly said okay, just because I feel that it is ultimately safer for them to take the medication. This is still a practice that is very risky. I think a lot of people have a belief that seizures are not as liable to kill a person as they really are. This is especially true when recreational drug users experience a seizure in isolation.

I'm not going to close it right now, but please try to keep it on point with our HR goals and principles.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
I have always loved codeine the first time I took it with weed was amazing ill never forget it
 
Btw for HR how do you know if you are having a seizure what are the symptoms??
 
There are all kinds of seizures, which makes it a subject that's a little difficult to learn about. I actually have seizures independent of drug use, so I will just share my story with you and leave it at that.

I almost always will get what is called an "Aura" prior to a seizure occurring. This is a big plus because it often allows me to get to ground without falling. The aura is basically a sudden feeling of unease/fear/malaise. It's just a sudden shift that is different from how you felt just a second before. I often get Myoclonic episodes, like mild to severe twitching prior to actually having a full-blown Tonic-Clonic Seizure. It's like fainting. It's always terrifying, you lose control of your body and despite trying to fix yourself, everything begins to tremble and then I lose consciousness.

It can be different every time and people experience them differently. Many people have no warning. They just wake up exhausted and having pissed themselves. Sometimes, I get Myoclonus that doesn't lead to a Tonic-Clonic seizure, but the Myoclonus can be so violent that I've had concussions.
 
I never tried anything more euphoric than tramadol. It makes me feel like I'm on top of the world and nothing even comes close. Hydrocodone seems like a joke when it comes to tramadol. I also got depression so that's maybe why tramadol makes me feel so good.
 
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