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RCs O-Desmethyltramadol

supersonic89

supersonic89

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Sep 17, 2019
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Hello guys.

Being a tramadol / tapentadol lover guy, what would be an appropriate dose of o-desmethyltramadol for a person whose daily consumption of tramadol is between 700-2000 mg?

According to Psychonautwiki a common dose is between 25-50 mg. But that dose, how much tramadol is it comparable to? 400 mg?

I know o-desmethyltramadol has zero activity like SSRI, but if it has some SNRI activity, which would make it similar to tapentadol (current tolerance: 700-1000mg).

Anyway, assuming it's almost a pure opioid, redosing is useless, so what dosage would be recommended for someone of my tolerance?

Thanks in advance, my friends.
 
In my experience O-DSMT is about 5 times stronger than tramadol on a mg to mg basis.

That said, because of a lack of serotogenic activity I could take way more O-DSMT than I could an equivalent amount of tramadol. I can easily take 500mg+ of O-DSMT in a day, which is like 2500mg+ of tramadol (a dose I've never taken throughout a day).

O-DSMT is quite a bit safer than tramadol due to its lack of serotonergic effects.
 
negrogesic said:
In my experience O-DSMT is about 5 times stronger than tramadol on a mg to mg basis.

That said, because of a lack of serotogenic activity I could take way more O-DSMT than I could an equivalent amount of tramadol. I can easily take 500mg+ of O-DSMT in a day, which is like 2500mg+ of tramadol (a dose I've never taken throughout a day).

O-DSMT is quite a bit safer than tramadol due to its lack of serotonergic effects.
Click to expand...

So I should just divide my classic tramadol dose by 5.
That is, if I take about 1500 mg. of tramadol one day / 5 = 300 mg. of O-DSMT.
Right?

A question, why tramadol can cause seizures? Is it due to its monoaminergic action?

Apparently the sublingual dose is 20% stronger. Has anyone tried it like this?
 
negrogesic said:
It might be more than just its serotonergic properties that produce seizures.

Tramadol is also a weak GABA-A antagonist and this may help explain the proconvulsant properties of tramadol.
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Mehhhhh never believed that although I can see the thinking in it. The fact it’s has SNRI properties are what makes tramadol so affective but also so dangerous. Like the gaba a action really is very weak.
 
PrincessDiz said:
Mehhhhh never believed that although I can see the thinking in it. The fact it’s has SNRI properties are what makes tramadol so affective but also so dangerous. Like the gaba a action really is very weak.
Click to expand...

Though seemingly weak tramadol's inhibitory action on GABA-A probably does play some role in its proconvulsive tendencies since seizures pretty much exclusively occur at high doses. Seizures also occur quite independently from cases of serotonin syndrome, which might suggest (at least as im arguing) a mechanism other than serotonin reuptake inhibition. It also seems that those who experience seizures from tramadol are often prone to them, with epileptics for example being at much higher risk. If a flashing light can provoke a seizure in a predisposed individual, it not surprising that a GABA-A antagonist, even if weak, may pose a risk if enough is taken.
 
negrogesic said:
Though seemingly weak tramadol's inhibitory action on GABA-A probably does play some role in its proconvulsive tendencies since seizures pretty much exclusively occur at high doses. Seizures also occur quite independently from cases of serotonin syndrome, which might suggest (at least as im arguing) a mechanism other than serotonin reuptake inhibition. It also seems that those who experience seizures from tramadol are often prone to them, with epileptics for example being at much higher risk. If a flashing light can provoke a seizure in a predisposed individual, it not surprising that a GABA-A antagonist, even if weak, may pose a risk if enough is taken.
Click to expand...

Yeah, makes sense.

"GABA(A) receptors were significantly inhibited only at large concentrations (100 microM)."
Click to expand...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effects of tramadol and its metabolite on glycine, gamma-aminobutyric acidA, and N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors expressed in Xenopus oocytes - PubMed

We assessed the effects of tramadol, a centrally acting analgesic, and its major metabolite, on neurotransmitter-gated ion channels. Tramadol binds to mu-opioid receptors with low affinity and inhibits reuptake of monoamines in the central nervous system. These actions are believed to primarily...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In other words, O-DSMT should also have these side effects in high doses, right?
 
ibtisam midlet said:
There is chronic low serotonin baseline levels

If you upper the dose slow enough you will able to resist any dose of any drug, like what happen to me with every drug I take
Click to expand...

Yes, it makes sense. Same thing happened to me. I started small two years ago (100 mg. in a day). Every day or week I was taking about 50-100 mg. more and now I can handle a monstrous dose of tramadol (1700mg.) In a span of 5-8 hours, without any benzo. Totally crazy. Please, if someone (user or guest) reads this, don't do it.
 
negrogesic said:
Though seemingly weak tramadol's inhibitory action on GABA-A probably does play some role in its proconvulsive tendencies since seizures pretty much exclusively occur at high doses. Seizures also occur quite independently from cases of serotonin syndrome, which might suggest (at least as im arguing) a mechanism other than serotonin reuptake inhibition. It also seems that those who experience seizures from tramadol are often prone to them, with epileptics for example being at much higher risk. If a flashing light can provoke a seizure in a predisposed individual, it not surprising that a GABA-A antagonist, even if weak, may pose a risk if enough is taken.
Click to expand...
Look yeah, you’re right in a way, it probably could play a very small part in it for some people. I would be thinking however that it’s the extensive and ultra-rapid metabolisers who are obviously going to have a higher M1 metabolite concentration. M1 has serotonergic activity and obviously can induce serotonin syndrome. We all know that this can cause seizures. Seizures are usually seen when tramadol has been used along with SSRIs and TCAs.

I honestly haven’t read any studies recently in regards to it though and it’s something I’m going to be picking up again.
 
Man. I even got to watch Nicolas Winding Refn's The Neon Demon and Only God Forgives being high on tramadol and not having seizures.

Oh, and that Kanye West and Rihanna music video, All of the Lights, which includes a seizure warning.

But that movie Speed Racer by the Wachowskis I didn't dare to see it hahaha.

P.S. Yeah I'm kinda a movie buff. :LOL:
 
supersonic89 said:
Man. I even got to watch Nicolas Winding Refn's The Neon Demon and Only God Forgives being high on tramadol and not having seizures.

Oh, and that Kanye West and Rihanna music video, All of the Lights, which includes a seizure warning.

But that movie Speed Racer by the Wachowskis I didn't dare to see it hahaha.

P.S. Yeah I'm kinda a movie buff. :LOL:
Click to expand...
Just because you’ve managed to avoid seizures doesn’t mean it’ll always be the case. I hope you know this.

Also people who have seizures due to flashing lights have a type of epilepsy called photosensitive epilepsy. Not everyone who has seizures are triggered by flashing lights.
 
After my benzo induced seizures, they made me stare into strobes of various frequency whilst hooked to an EEG. That alone was terrifying in itself. Photosensitive epilepsy accounts for only 10% of cases IIRC.
 
PrincessDiz said:
Just because you’ve managed to avoid seizures doesn’t mean it’ll always be the case. I hope you know this.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Taking high doses of tramadol is definitely playing with fire. Every time I take that route, I know I can end up on the floor seizuring and foaming at the mouth. (excuse me being explicit). I have read about what to do in case you feel what a seizure is coming from (position to adopt, not standing, having a pillow nearby, etc.)
 
supersonic89 said:
Yeah. Taking high doses of tramadol is definitely playing with fire. Every time I take that route, I know I can end up on the floor seizuring and foaming at the mouth. (excuse me being explicit). I have read about what to do in case you feel what a seizure is coming from (position to adopt, not standing, having a pillow nearby, etc.)
Click to expand...
Yeah, again, some people have auras with seizures and some people don’t. Ive worked most of my life with epileptic adults in some capacity and it varies so so much. It’s a very individual condition.
 
Since my 2 seizure's recently. Anything remotely serotinergic was off my list. No MDMA or high dosing stimulant's. No skipping nights of sleep on purpose.

My list def include's Tramadol. But o-DSMT I am willing to take, it seems reasonably safe for epilepsy as far as i read.

Just guessing but my fucking around with Gaba-ergic's is probably way more lightly to cause a seizure.
 
MsDiz said:
Look yeah, you’re right in a way, it probably could play a very small part in it for some people. I would be thinking however that it’s the extensive and ultra-rapid metabolisers who are obviously going to have a higher M1 metabolite concentration. M1 has serotonergic activity and obviously can induce serotonin syndrome. We all know that this can cause seizures. Seizures are usually seen when tramadol has been used along with SSRIs and TCAs.
Click to expand...

I guess i never responded to this but the M1 metabolite actually retains little of the serotonergic properties of tramadol (having only a fraction of the affinity for the serotonin transporter). This, combined with its much higher potency as an opioid, means that serotonin syndrome isn't much of a risk with O-DSMT. So in that regard it is quite abit safer than tramadol. More likely to result in a fatal overdose however.
 
emkee_reinvented said:
Since my 2 seizure's recently. Anything remotely serotinergic was off my list. No MDMA or high dosing stimulant's. No skipping nights of sleep on purpose.

My list def include's Tramadol. But o-DSMT I am willing to take, it seems reasonably safe for epilepsy as far as i read.

Just guessing but my fucking around with Gaba-ergic's is probably way more lightly to cause a seizure.
Click to expand...

Yes, lacking the serotonergic properties of tramadol it does not bear the same risk of seizure.
 
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