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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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indigoaura said:
Just a little note here.

Did some 2CB for the first time last night in about a year. I did a super low dose, maybe 12-15 mg. I usually do about 30 mg. Also, I had just eaten a big meal. I did not expect much.

Ended up being totally reminded of what magic MDMA is supposed to feel like. I am totally capable of feeling magic, apparently, just not from this shit MDMA.

Had an array of experiences in association with music, just relaxing on the sofa. There was some intense synesthesia. If you don't feel like the music is undressing you, you are doing something wrong!

I think, to some extent, the emphasis on the "couch locked" nature of the Meh-DMA may be misleading. I was stretched out on the couch for the entire 2CB experience as well, but the psychological/physical qualities were 100% different. My mind was active and filled with deep appreciation, relaxation, joy, and sensuality.

MehDMA = I want to lay on the couch because there is nothing else I want to do, and I feel heavy and unmotivated, and I wish everything/everyone/every sound would just go away.

2CB (and maybe magic MDMA too) = I want to lay on the couch because it FEELS GOOD, and the blanket feels good, and stretching feels good, and oh, this music is making me tingle in a way that feels good, and there is nowhere else I would rather be.

It is the difference between a depressed de-motivation and a relaxed euphoria.
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This is pretty much how I see 6-apb V MehDMA.

6-apb has me couchlocked in a state of utter bliss, rather than just not being able to do anything else...
 
androoo said:
so are there any new updates on what the issue is ?
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Unfortunately, not really.

Our top hypothesis is still that the effects of MDMA are likely being blocked by a contaminant/impurity. There is some research that supports this, including articles that show that synthesis impurities block receptors, and other articles that detail how such receptor blocking activity might stunt an MDMA experience.

Backup theories include the idea that synthesis impurities from older synthesis methods somehow enhanced the experience, or that some of today's MDMA is a structurally similar compound that masquerades as MDMA to GCMS.

An additional rising star in consideration is that the phenomenon is a combination of individual genetics and/or physical issues and the presence of contaminants. In other words, SOME people experience a blunted MDMA experience in response to contaminants while other people do not.
 
indigoaura said:
Just a little note here.

Did some 2CB for the first time last night in about a year. I did a super low dose, maybe 12-15 mg. I usually do about 30 mg. Also, I had just eaten a big meal. I did not expect much.

Ended up being totally reminded of what magic MDMA is supposed to feel like. I am totally capable of feeling magic, apparently, just not from this shit MDMA.

Had an array of experiences in association with music, just relaxing on the sofa. There was some intense synesthesia. If you don't feel like the music is undressing you, you are doing something wrong!

I think, to some extent, the emphasis on the "couch locked" nature of the Meh-DMA may be misleading. I was stretched out on the couch for the entire 2CB experience as well, but the psychological/physical qualities were 100% different. My mind was active and filled with deep appreciation, relaxation, joy, and sensuality.

MehDMA = I want to lay on the couch because there is nothing else I want to do, and I feel heavy and unmotivated, and I wish everything/everyone/every sound would just go away.

2CB (and maybe magic MDMA too) = I want to lay on the couch because it FEELS GOOD, and the blanket feels good, and stretching feels good, and oh, this music is making me tingle in a way that feels good, and there is nowhere else I would rather be.

It is the difference between a depressed de-motivation and a relaxed euphoria.
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Nice to hear you had at least a pleasurable and sounds like a predominantly positicec experience Indigo.

I first took 2CB myself in 1999 at an illegal outdoor summer festival called Exodus.

It was quite bizarre there were three hippies sitting on couches just randomly at the edge of a pathway and they offered me 2cb which I had never heard of then and I asked them what it was like and they said very simplistic "it's like a cross between a trip and a pill".

3 tiny micodort things. It magnified eberything else I was on.

But I have always understood 2cb be an enhancer essentially so maybe it is capable of bringing out the more positive aspect of less than top-quality legit MDMA.

Just a thought anyway.

(Jusy edited for embarassing typos. Damned old optic nerve injury combined with heavy hppd lol! Sometimed it's like typing on a rocky ferry ride.)
 
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MehDMA stops 2C-B from working. I once snorted at least 30 mg 2C-B when I had taken MehDMA & 150 mcg AL-LAD in order to get something to happen. In the end I had visuals like I'd normally get from snorting 10 mg, but without the normal headspace & tactile enhancement. Complete waste of good 2C-B & AL-LAD. ☹
 
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PsychedelicSummer said:
MehDMA stops 2C-B from working. I once snorted at least 30 mg 2C-B when I had taken MehDMA & 150 mcg AL-LAD in order to get something to happen. In the end I had visual like I'd normally get from snorting 10 mg, but without the normal headspace & tactile enhancement. Complete waste of good 2C-B & AL-LAD. ☹️
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See that alone itself just shouldn't be the case.

By all accounts and logic, 2CB will substantially enhance MDMA, and create a much more psychedellic headspace, without blocking the effect of the 2CB in any way, more likely amplifying it, by my understanding of true MDMA.

This alone, is actually a very strong subjective indicator, that there really MIGHT ACTUALLY BE Mehdma lol, for those still in doubt insisting Loss of Magic is the only explanation.
 
PsychedelicSummer said:
MehDMA stops 2C-B from working. I once snorted at least 30 mg 2C-B when I had taken MehDMA & 150 mcg AL-LAD in order to get something to happen. In the end I had visuals like I'd normally get from snorting 10 mg, but without the normal headspace & tactile enhancement. Complete waste of good 2C-B & AL-LAD. ☹
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I have also had experiences where I took the MehDMA first and then took 2CB and it was BAD. Not pleasant at all. However, one time, I switched the order and took the 2CB first, and that seemed to improve the MehDMA. So, I am kind of curious to try that again and see if I could replicate that experience. But year, taking the MehDMA first and then taking 2CB does not create the pleasant, synergistic experience that is supposed to occur.
 
Been testing out a new batch of MDMA this weekend and it's very good indeed.

Started off on 130mg and although I'd eaten (dropping was a last minute decision) I could feel it coming on after 15 minutes which is a good sign to me.

Felt lovely and clean, but not quite strong enough for my liking. So I redosed another 100mg. Now with MehDMA, redoses are a waste of time and drugs because all you're doing is chasing that high you were so cruelly denied. But this redose took me right back up, and that was after 3-4 hours.

So that was Friday. It's now 21:32 on Sunday 8th November and I am happily buzzing my tits off on a starting dose of 250mg. No desire to redose at this level.

So, the verdict is it seems like decent stuff, but the dose just needs to be increased to start with

(Edit: still mashed and just realised I've missed some bits out. Please see amended post above)
 
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indigoaura said:
Unfortunately, not really.

Our top hypothesis is still that the effects of MDMA are likely being blocked by a contaminant/impurity. There is some research that supports this, including articles that show that synthesis impurities block receptors, and other articles that detail how such receptor blocking activity might stunt an MDMA experience.

Backup theories include the idea that synthesis impurities from older synthesis methods somehow enhanced the experience, or that some of today's MDMA is a structurally similar compound that masquerades as MDMA to GCMS.

An additional rising star in consideration is that the phenomenon is a combination of individual genetics and/or physical issues and the presence of contaminants. In other words, SOME people experience a blunted MDMA experience in response to contaminants while other people do not.
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Been a while... just for the sake of knowledge you may find this interesting.

A multiple re-crystallization attempt (3x) from a fairly pure sample from a known DM shop showed the following:
Even if the substance is white or off white (in powdered form) still has plenty of impurities, the desiccated mother liquor contained a considerable amount of a yellow/orange greasy/oily substance that took months to dry to solid, and not even dried completely.
The resulting crystals are nearly transparent and look very clean, no smell at all, unfortunately the re-crystallization did not improve in any way the experience, it was active nearly the same before and after. No substantial improvement.
Nice warm body feeling, energetic but lethargic at the same time, no euphoria, no desire to dance, music boring. Walking in the woods at night felt quite satisfying and spiritual though.

I'm quite sure that impurities are not responsible for the overall dull effect we all know, a dimer would have a different molecular weight so that rules this out since GCMS shows the supposedly correct value.
Could be that the pressurized reductive amination may be responsible for a different arrangement of the atoms in the molecule? just speculating here, but I'm running out of possible answers.
Still I think that impurities related to the old route used at the time 90-2000's would produce a synergy with the main molecule, i remember that occasionally tablets had a different effect, cleaner and less stimulating , I tend to believe that these were MDMA in a purer form or quite likely that the synth used didn't produced extra compounds which effect would add/colour the experience in a different way.
I'll post a pic of the cleaned product asap, once I found a secure place to upload it.
Keep investigating :)
 
mooka said:
I tried but it didn't work with my browser.
anyway here the re-crystallized meh.
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Any way we could get multiple pictures, out of the container? Looks pretty but I wanna see if I can differentiate any clear crystal pattern that true MDMA has.

Right now it looks more like melted ice than re-X’ed MDMA, and gives me the impression either a cut or impurity still made it along for the ride.

It’s very possible for substances with similar solubility properties to re-X together.

-GC
 
This is a long thread, and it has been a long time, but I have been under the impression that re-crystallization would not take out the kind of impurities we think may be responsible, due to similarity to MDMA. I thought this has come up several times with the conclusion that a column is the only way to possibly separate the compounds.
 
G_Chem said:
Any way we could get multiple pictures, out of the container? Looks pretty but I wanna see if I can differentiate any clear crystal pattern that true MDMA has.

Right now it looks more like melted ice than re-X’ed MDMA, and gives me the impression either a cut or impurity still made it along for the ride.

It’s very possible for substances with similar solubility properties to re-X together.

-GC
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will post some more pics over the weekend.
re-X solvent was anhydrous IPA the first two times and IPA + distilled water the 3rd, just extra info for who might be curious.

indigoaura said:
This is a long thread, and it has been a long time, but I have been under the impression that re-crystallization would not take out the kind of impurities we think may be responsible, due to similarity to MDMA. I thought this has come up several times with the conclusion that a column is the only way to possibly separate the compounds.
Click to expand...
If this is true would mean that a big part of the product would be a cut. However this meh is fully active at dosages of 100-120mg (if you consider fully active meh :)) and as we know increasing the dosage doesn't change the experience footprint, so if a cut is responsible that would bring down the dosage to be sub-active levels, and this is not the case.

Furthermore no one has successfully isolated meh (or active cut) from magic yet, so this sadly takes me to the conclusion that the so called mdma that is largely available is an isomer, there isn't much more to look for. Maybe an isomer with a different resonance form that is differently metabolized by the brain? I stumbled upon this paper which looks quite recent: Mass-Spectrometry-Based Identification of Synthetic Drug Isomers Using Infrared Ion Spectroscopy, at this point looks like that the only way to answer this riddle is using this technique.
 
mooka said:
If this is true would mean that a big part of the product would be a cut.
However this meh is fully active at dosages of 100-120mg (if you consider fully active meh :)) and as we know increasing the dosage doesn't change the experience footprint, so if a cut is responsible that would bring down the dosage to be sub-active levels, and this is not the case.
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Not necessarily.
The cut or contaminant can be very very potent. This way, a low proportion e.g. 1:100000 of a high potency contaminant would make it very hard to detect while still allowing it to exert its effect on the nervous system.

This is not far fetched, there are substances which are pharmacologically active at the nanogram range - for example some of the new synthetic opioids among many other potent drugs.

I'd bet a pure racemic 3,4-MDMA HCl mixed with one of these very potent sedating contaminants in the proportion 1:100000 would be pretty Meh and almost impossible to detect and separate.
 
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