Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

[MsDiz]

And just to state, I don’t give a fiddlers fuck what anyone does. If it doesn’t affect me or others negatively then I couldn’t care less. I just know my countrymen and women and they are backward as fuck. Small steps is what we need to get to an understanding accepting society. Big great leaps just make everyone freaked and go the other way.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Oh there’s gays and Ireland is just getting used to it. Cross dressing straight guys?! That’s pushing it for now. The country would implode.

I know, there's just a YouTube video where the one guy says that "There's no gays in ireland" and is acting all surprised when his wife tells that there are gays.

 

[MsDiz]

I know, there's just a YouTube video where the one guy says that "There's no gays in ireland" and is acting all surprised when his wife tells that there are gays.

I’m from a small town and I know for a fact not one person would ever admit to being gay. 2 of the guys I used to be in school with definitely are. It’s a sad way to be. Dublin is definitely more accepting though.

 

[December Flower]

Allow me to quote Leon fro Mr Robot:



TLDR: Kramer is the ultimate Doofus, never to be taken seriously

I assumed the focus about said character was his schizoid personality disorder. Still to be taken seriously, but suffering from severe mental illness. I haven't seen many episodes. The problem about these shows that I have is that the laugh track/studio audience seems to laugh at absolutely random intervals, so I can never tell what parts are intended as humour, and what parts are just perceived as such.
I will take your advice, if I should ever watch this show. I feel a bit stupid right now for taking you seriously, so I think I'll just bask in my shame and fuck off :/

 

[Jabberwocky]

And just to state, I don’t give a fiddlers fuck what anyone does. If it doesn’t affect me or others negatively then I couldn’t care less. I just know my countrymen and women and they are backward as fuck. Small steps is what we need to get to an understanding accepting society. Big great leaps just make everyone freaked and go the other way.

I think that there's certain level of "progression" no moral human would accept.
Like sterilization of children in the name of LBQT ideology, by giving them puberty blockers.
Like sexualization of children, like giving up on many things we westerners believe in just because some ideology rooted in 600's tells it's okay and opposing it would raccizt.
Things like after birth abortion, or during X time abortion. The thing here is that there's certain brand of progressive ideology which is being pushed now and I believe it to be reason why Trump got voten in power. He will push back against them and he will do it with pride.

 

[neversickanymore]

I have noticed its hard to pull it off with a coved mask. It became almost impossible not to notice two male to female people once they were required to mask up. I would have never noticed without the mask. I apologize in advance if my classification was mispresented.

 

[JessFR]

Also, this post reeks of misogyny.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Personally I'm sick of hearing men say "all women think x regarding men".

 

[Deru]

Be free, but don't force your freedom down everyone else's throat. Everyone remains free this way.

100%.

Live and let live.

Our species is so far beyond what evolution, at one time, dictated as necessary, that we can feel comfortable to embrace the vast uniqueness of one another.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Well, people get better socially by socializing with other people.
If you have extremely misogynistic views and go on dates with women, you're not gonna get very far.
This encourages the changing of those views.
This works both ways and is present in every social interaction we have. Let's say you're the kind of guy who likes to joke about bombing places. I'm the kind of guy, I find it really funny, but I realized very young that it's just not worth it to throw those things around.
To this day I found them extremely funny tho.
I believe it to be a genetic thing for women not to find men dressing feminine attractive. I do not believe women find extremely feminine men attractive, unless it's a kink.
The dress Jesus wore and what some Muslims wear to this day? It has masculine form in it and is not highlighting feminine parts of the body.
There's not the feminine spice on it.
I understand what you're aiming for with your points and it would be great, but I don't believe that's possible and I believe it to be naive view of the world which encourages kind of thinking which is pretty poplar among people who support the critical race theory, 3rd wave feminism and other postmodern neo-marxist ideas.
Just because most of men don't crossdress doesn't mean that they don't have the balls, it just means men don't like the idea of crossdressing. They like their masculinity, just like women like their femininity and women emphasize it with their clothing, which highlights feminine forms.
Men do it with their own clothes.

I apologise if my first reply was on the attack a little, you're actually right about a lot of what you say. I was just defensive because my younger brothers best friend is gay and is very effeminate and would wear "girls" stuff back at school (like nail polish, tights, sometimes a little makeup) and I just remember the ridiculous amount of shit he got from other kids, fucking TEACHERS and most of his family. He was my brothers friend, not mine, but I was still like "Jesus Fucking Christ, does your friend wanna move in with us and I'll home school him or something?" Like, nobody deserves that kind of treatment just for literally being themselves...and he never did that at anybody else's expensive either. Rant over. Actual reply:

As for the Ireland thing, I've seen that posted on TikTok by like a million gay boys and lesbian, laughing...in most western countries including Canada, the U.S., the UK and Australia, 15-20% of the population identify as being LGBT+...that's pretty much true of all places, but obviously if you live in a country where being openly LGBT+ puts you at a high risk of violence or being murdered...of COURSE very few of those people are going to be open about their sexuality or gender identity. I mean, there are still countries (a lot of them) where just BEING gay (not homosexual acts, just being gay) can get you the death penalty by being thrown off tall buildings or stoned to death.
When I said about those not having the balls to do it, I meant only those who WANTED to. Of course the majority of men don't.
Cross-dressing and homosexuality have been around since humans have been around and for the vast majority of history it was completely accepted.
In most places, particularly in the East, transgender people were almost worshipped and were referred to as "two spirits". Until the English and the French brought colonialism to those countries, after which they tended to be murdered on sight.
The same in Africa. It was very common and mainstream for strong, masculine men to marry smaller feminine men as their wives because in general on that continent people had just never thought of sex (what's between your legs) and gender (what they would call a "masculine" or "feminine" energy) as being related to each other. They also had a third gender which was close to what we would call "non-binary" or "gender-fluid". Again, English and French colonialism forever changed that.
Makes me really embarrassed to be English tbh. Not to mention our massive involvement in the slave trade. What can I say? My ancestors were cunts.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

There is no practical use for a man to wear a bra. Well unless you were to use it in order to make your butt look better. Note to self: Butt-bras might be the next thing.

Remind me to check that out next time I walk past Ann Summers.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Personally I'm sick of hearing men say "all women think x regarding men".

Agreed in every respect of that massive generalization. To claim an enormous group of people "all do this" or "all think this" based on one single common trait among them is so stupid.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Whether it is acceptable or not depends a little bit on your view of how mental disorders and sexual fetishes should be treated and accomodated within society. Such men are suffering from a condition known autogynephilia in which they are aroused by seeing themselves as women. In my view, mental illnesses should be treated sympathetically and certainly not be the cause of violence or be criminalised. However, I also don't think that sexual fetishes (or really overt sexual behaviour of any kind) have a place in public and certainly not in the workplace.

It seems that in most cultures, in most times, some men have enjoyed imagining themsevles as women and being publicly perceived as women. In fact it is so universal that it should probably be considered an essential part of the human condition. Right up there with the desire to take intoxicants that we on BL are all so familiar with. Some cultures celebrated such men, some merely tolerated them, some killed them. However, many things that are a part of the human condition - like psychosis and narcissism - are things we endeavour to keep out of the public sphere.

Every human culture in every time has established rules and norms for the protection and advancement of that culture. For many cultures this has been around sexual practices. For some it has been around intoxication. All cultures sanction culturally aberrant behaviour in different ways ranging from ostracisation, to banishment, to violence, to incarceration. The reason behind this is that the strength and resiliance of the community is considered more important than the expression of individual idiosyncracies. However, as Enlightenment liberalism (which valued and sought to strengthen the social and the community) has developed into progressive liberalism (which hates the established social and the community), it has become morally rightious to say "Fuck You I'm An Individual' towards almost all established values and norm - especially sexual ones. Liberalism, unfortunately carries within it the seeds of its own destruction given that it offers respect and a voice to individuals whose goal is ultimately to destroy it from within.

Life in the 21st centruy western world would be infinitely better if we treated the public sphere, including work, as a place where community values prevalied and the private sphere as somewhere where people should be free to let it all hang out however they wish. However, the last thing I'd want is the barrier between public sphere and private sphere being enforced by the police or by vigilantes. It should be maintained through decent education, both at school and within the home.

 

[Jabberwocky]

In most places, particularly in the East, transgender people were almost worshipped and were referred to as "two spirits". Until the English and the French brought colonialism to those countries, after which they tended to be murdered on sight.
The same in Africa. It was very common and mainstream for strong, masculine men to marry smaller feminine men as their wives because in general on that continent people had just never thought of sex (what's between your legs) and gender (what they would call a "masculine" or "feminine" energy) as being related to each other. They also had a third gender which was close to what we would call "non-binary" or "gender-fluid". Again, English and French colonialism forever changed that.
Makes me really embarrassed to be English tbh. Not to mention our massive involvement in the slave trade. What can I say? My ancestors were cunts.

It's ok. You can ease up on the performative cultural self-loathing. The majority of what you have written is conjecture by activist Western LGBTQ academics in Queer Studies. Actual history indicates that attitudes towards homosexuality varied widely across cultures and across time both in Africa and the East. In fact merely using the totalising concepts Africa and the East is almost pointless in this topic. Perhaps the greatest historical force in the history of the world for enforcing binary gender and sexual norms has been Islam - which was conquering and colonising vast swathes of Africa, Eastern Europe, and Asia centuries before Whitey got his act together and thought to go exploring.. What the English, French (and also Dutch) colonialists often did was formally codify into law proscriptions against homosexuality that already existed in cultural practice in the countries they colonised.

It is a sleght of hand practiced by Queer Theory to say that the first ever codification of law in those countries is the same as importing estern colonial values. In many many cases, the colonists incorporated existing traditions and practices into their new legal systems.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think that there's certain level of "progression" no moral human would accept.
Like sterilization of children in the name of LBQT ideology, by giving them puberty blockers.
Like sexualization of children, like giving up on many things we westerners believe in just because some ideology rooted in 600's tells it's okay and opposing it would raccizt.
Things like after birth abortion, or during X time abortion. The thing here is that there's certain brand of progressive ideology which is being pushed now and I believe it to be reason why Trump got voten in power. He will push back against them and he will do it with pride.

I 100% agree with you that sexualizing children and gender reassignment in children is fucked up. However, a man choosing to dress as a woman is not in the same league as those, at all. Some men feel called to do it, I certainly don't, but who cares if some guys do? What adults want to do on their own time is their own business. At least, that should be the case in "the land of the free".

It has probably been socially acceptable in some cultures in the past, and it's possible it could be in the future as well, it just depends on how things go and whether we continue to progress in social liberties, or we instead regress.

Either way, in general it's probably a bad idea for a man to dress as a woman and go about his day, sadly, because of how many people are going to react badly. There is a shocking incidence of cross-dressing men getting badly beaten/killed and raped by groups of homophobic men (who raped a guy... go figure ). It's simply not safe...m it makes it much less likely you will be accepted, given jobs, and so on. That's just the way it is.

But things change. In much of the 1900s, it was considered feminine and unacceptable for a man to have long hair, yet nowadays many men have long hair (myself included) and other than pockets of little towns and such, it's fully socially acceptable these days, at least in my country.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I 100% agree with you that sexualizing children and gender reassignment in children is fucked up. However, a man choosing to dress as a woman is not in the same league as those, at all. Some men feel called to do it, I certainly don't, but who cares if some guys do? What adults want to do on their own time is their own business. At least, that should be the case in "the land of the free".

It has probably been socially acceptable in some cultures in the past, and it's possible it could be in the future as well, it just depends on how things go and whether we continue to progress in social liberties, or we instead regress.

Either way, in general it's probably a bad idea for a man to dress as a woman and go about his day, sadly, because of how many people are going to react badly. There is a shocking incidence of cross-dressing men getting badly beaten/killed and raped by groups of homophobic men (who raped a guy... go figure ). It's simply not safe...m it makes it much less likely you will be accepted, given jobs, and so on. That's just the way it is.

But things change. In much of the 1900s, it was considered feminine and unacceptable for a man to have long hair, yet nowadays many men have long hair (myself included) and other than pockets of little towns and such, it's fully socially acceptable these days, at least in my country.

Thank you, Xor. I meant what you did, but I clealry didn't write good enough.
The hair thing? Some men had long hair back in the 70's tho, but you're right about 90's music culture populating it.

 

[Xorkoth]

True, but before the 60s/70s, it was considered womanly. In fact, it was a huge point of contention between the older generation and the young people of the 60s and 70s.

 

[Jabberwocky]

True, but before the 60s/70s, it was considered womanly. In fact, it was a huge point of contention between the older generation and the young people of the 60s and 70s.

Sure.
Many WWE fighers had long hair, so did Arnold Swatzhenegger (Well, semi long) :D Maybe their muslces made up for the little bit of femininity.

 

[CFC]

If your pecs are big enough you could probably get away with this...

 

[JessFR]

If your pecs are big enough you could probably get away with this...

Have I mentioned that I find excessively muscled guys unattractive?

Yeah I know... I don't like the muscles but don't give a shit about the bikini. Lol

 

[Jabberwocky]

I apologise if my first reply was on the attack a little, you're actually right about a lot of what you say. I was just defensive because my younger brothers best friend is gay and is very effeminate and would wear "girls" stuff back at school (like nail polish, tights, sometimes a little makeup) and I just remember the ridiculous amount of shit he got from other kids, fucking TEACHERS and most of his family. He was my brothers friend, not mine, but I was still like "Jesus Fucking Christ, does your friend wanna move in with us and I'll home school him or something?" Like, nobody deserves that kind of treatment just for literally being themselves...and he never did that at anybody else's expensive either. Rant over. Actual reply:

As for the Ireland thing, I've seen that posted on TikTok by like a million gay boys and lesbian, laughing...in most western countries including Canada, the U.S., the UK and Australia, 15-20% of the population identify as being LGBT+...that's pretty much true of all places, but obviously if you live in a country where being openly LGBT+ puts you at a high risk of violence or being murdered...of COURSE very few of those people are going to be open about their sexuality or gender identity. I mean, there are still countries (a lot of them) where just BEING gay (not homosexual acts, just being gay) can get you the death penalty by being thrown off tall buildings or stoned to death.
When I said about those not having the balls to do it, I meant only those who WANTED to. Of course the majority of men don't.
Cross-dressing and homosexuality have been around since humans have been around and for the vast majority of history it was completely accepted.
In most places, particularly in the East, transgender people were almost worshipped and were referred to as "two spirits". Until the English and the French brought colonialism to those countries, after which they tended to be murdered on sight.
The same in Africa. It was very common and mainstream for strong, masculine men to marry smaller feminine men as their wives because in general on that continent people had just never thought of sex (what's between your legs) and gender (what they would call a "masculine" or "feminine" energy) as being related to each other. They also had a third gender which was close to what we would call "non-binary" or "gender-fluid". Again, English and French colonialism forever changed that.
Makes me really embarrassed to be English tbh. Not to mention our massive involvement in the slave trade. What can I say? My ancestors were cunts.

Hey, it's okay. My little brother is gay too and used to crossdress when we were younger.
Can you please put out sources for those LBqT stats? If those numbers were true 1 in 5 - 1 in 6 people were gay. Lets say were in a bus made for 30 people and its full. Well, it should be on average 5 lbqt people there.
I just can't believe those stats without proper sources.
Also, please tell me more about how westerners ruined everything everywhere in world? Which eastern countries had transsexuality and french came in there? French colonized indochina and india, but I can't find any material on them oppressing the trans people there? Or them teaching the others to oppress trans people.
Please, sources on this one too. I really want them, because this sounds just self-loathing of some leftie.
I'd hate to be one of the first ones who prohibited slavery. British did it first, but yeah - they were cunts. Stop this self-loathing, it's actually disgusting.
What's the place where trans, gay and every lbqt people get to live free today? western civilization. What's the civilization that prohibited slavery at first? British and as time went on so did other westerners.
It's particularly European idea that you should NOT colonize. Only reason why Europeans were able to colonize so big areas was because they were so much more advanced, and in some ways - are still to this day.
However, the colonialism has always been happening. Europeans were just best at it because of their progress. They would be extremely good at it right now if they wanted to, but because of their European thinking and European philosphy, they choose not to.
Can't say same thing about Africans and slavery, since they seem to be enjoying it. Can't say same thing about Chinese and colonialism, since they're doing it to this day.
Don't you see the flaws in your arguments?
Edit, I looked statistics up and found out you probably got those numbers from your own head.
Studies from several nations, including the U.S., conducted at varying time periods, have produced a statistical range of 1.2 to 6.8 percent of the adult population identifying as LGBT.