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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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Yellow was in the original sample (champagne crystal or whatever nonsense they used to describe it), also in the freebase dissolved in dcm, also in the spot pre-TLC, and still present (although moved somewhat up) after TLC. Didn't react with any reagents but was visible to the naked eye.
Well, that yellow substance is something, even if it doesn't move much and is unidentified so far.
 
Sorry...I just can't stop...

MORE comments on MBDB from Erowid:

The urge to lie back and close my eyes is very strong. This is not party stuff, that's for sure... unless your idea of a party is to curl up in a corner somewhere with your eyes closed.

This is a very drowsy MDMA-type experience.

This is an odd drug. It's very much like MDMA, but without the energetic stimulant effect. It's introspective & contemplative feeling...

The next day, I experienced some very significant hangover effects. This took me by surprise, as MDMA type drugs almost never give me any negative aftereffects (and when they do, they're clearly attributable to insufficient sleep afterwards). Usually, MDMA type drugs leave me feeling a very positive happy glow for several days. Not MBDB!

Last, and most unusual, I experienced some stomach effects. I had some mild diarrhea as well as recurring waves of mild nausea for most of the day. I've certainly never experienced this from MDMA nor heard of people having next-day nausea from such drugs. This makes me wonder if perhaps there was more at play than just a hangover... perhaps I managed to get a stomach flu or something, and that this was responsible for some of what I thought was a hangover.

All of this is spot on for my experience of MehDMA.

The one thing that does not line up is that people report eye dilation. Maybe the MBDB in my sample is a misidentified similar compound.
 
My friend doesn't get pupil dilation on mdma but hes on various meds. On the same batch together mine are full dark not a slither of colour left. It is possible indigo that you take anything that could interact with the pupil dilation effect?
 
Here is a suggestion...

Maybe someone who has access to magic MDMA should obtain some MBDB and see if a small amount affects the magic quality of the roll.
Maybe I could try and get hold of some and see if it has the same rf value on TLC as either of the spots I'm seeing...
 
Yes, but another paper mentioned that these OH groups easily disproportionate pyrolytically in the analyzer and the entire molecules rarely reach the mass detector.
GC/MS often works more off of proportion of fragments than intact molecules.

Do we even know whether @indigoaura 's samples were tested by GC/MS ? Once, when she asked for a full spectrum, she only received a UV spectrum, but I don't remember whether that was the same outfit.
Anyway UV spectroscopy cannot even distinguish between MDMA and M-ALPHA-HMCA so that method of analysis is unsuitable for resolving these compounds.

They didn't just do basic UV and MS, if you read the paper they hit it with everything. The molar mass bit seems quite solid.
LC-Q-TOF/MS spectrometric experiments under several sets of conditions revealed that the ion peak at m/z 267.1 is a pseudo-molecular ion of compound A.Several distinguishable product ions (m/z 236.1, 177.1, 164.1, 147.0) were commonly generated from both compound A and the parent ion m/z 267.1 by respective LC-Q-TOF/MS and LC-Q-TOF/MS/MS analyses. These results suggested that the m/z267.1 ion is the pseudo-molecular ion ([M+H]+) of compound A (Fig. 5c). Based on mass spectral determination and NMR experiments (vide infra), it was concluded that compound A has the chemical formula C13H19N2O4. Despite the strong resemblance of their UV spectra, few distinguishable product ions were commonly generated from both compounds A and B. These results imply that compounds A and B bear identical structural motifs that are connected differently. Although the peak at m/z 236.1 indicated that the parent ion ([M+H]+) at m/z 267.1 transitions to a daughter ion by losing –NH2CH3, we could not determine any substantial structural information for compound A at this stage.

It was identified using NMR, and then they even synthesized it to double check.
The structure of compound A was further confirmed by the synthesis of its proposed structure. The 1H-and 13C-NMR spectra of the newly synthesized compound A were in good agreement with those of the isolated one(Fig.S14-S17).
 
They didn't just do basic UV and MS, if you read the paper they hit it with everything. The molar mass bit seems quite solid.
It was identified using NMR, and then they even synthesized it to double check.
Negi, you misunderstand - I do not doubt the molar mass of M-ALPHA-HMCA as described in that Korean paper.
...but I doubt the other drug labs to be so diligent.
 
@HeadphonesandLSD, I was going to send you a PM, but I am not able to. Would you mind sending me a PM? Thanks in advance!

I'll send you a PM as soon as I can or change the settings. I had to change those because I would get random PMs from new users trying to ask me for sources and what-not.

As others have said, if you have access to both, definitely hold on to both the meh and the magic so that as we try to figure everything out, you have samples in each category. One thing you could do now would be to order a full reagent test kit set from somewhere like Bunk Police or Dancesafe, and test each sample and see if you can determine any differences in how they each react to the various reagents.

I have samples of both and keeping them around shouldn't be an issue. We test all of them on multiple reagent test kits and have not noted much difference between batches. At best some will just take longer to react but there never seems to be a pattern between Meh and MDMA that we can find. Everything that comes through that isn't bunk/something else always tends to react as MDMA in testing. It is really frustrating.

Would you mind sharing your experience with MehDMA? How many times have you had it and what was it like for you? How would you describe the difference between regular magic MDMA and MehDMA? Have you been able to experience "magic" reliably from one product, but not from another?

MehDMA for me feels like a come-up that never breaks through to the magic. I would describe it as cold, underwhelming, and moreish. It reminds me a lot of Mephedrone in many ways but doesn't even feel as good as that. There is no push to do things on MehDMA for me. It feels a bit stoning and I'm content just laying around like I do on opioids. I can see why it would fool a new user because it does feel good just not as good as MDMA is supposed to feel. Even when I take MDMA in a home setting I want to get up and do things. For example I might get lost in a video game with good music, my skills at said game will improve because I'm thinking and reacting faster, I hear notes in the music that I wouldn't normally notice. MehDMA just puts me in a place where I feel fucked up, content, and willing to sit around watching TV for the duration. Now that I'm attempting to describe it I'm having a hard time. :)

One thing I've noticed about MehDMA is the fact that it seems to mimic the effects of dosing MDMA too close together. Unlike most here my tolerance has not been shot from years of use/abuse. I can still count the number of times I've taken MDMA on my two hands (quickly coming up on use 10 in 2 decades). MehDMA after a long break is like taking MDMA a few nights or perhaps a week after having taken it before. MehDMA makes me the feel the same way MDMA did when I attempted to take it for the third time in the span of one month. Basically, I just get a lot of side effects, minimal euphoria, and it all just seems like a waste. It feels different enough from the good MDMA that I know it can't be the same drug though. The sedation really is the main tell for me.

Don't get me wrong. Having taken good MDMA in a home setting multiple times I can tell you it's certainly possible to relax/lay around on it. The difference between Meh and Magic for me is the speed of my mind and the types of things I think about during the peak. On magic MDMA my mind goes really fast and I find myself thinking about all of the people in my life and how much they all love me and I love them. On MehDMA I don't get much of this and it's replaced by thoughts similar to opioids. By that I mean my thoughts seem more focused on myself and not the relationships I've built in my life. I don't think MehDMA could save a marriage.

I was lucky enough that I caught the tail end of the 90s MDMA that all of you seem to rave about. I can attest that there were a lot of magic in those tablets back then. When I came back to MDMA after decades away from it my first encounter was with MehDMA and Mephedrone. Not being one to like speed/cocaine I didn't find too much value in either of those. After some time I found my current source and when I took the first press I knew I'd rediscovered the good old magic. It's like night and day when you compare the two. Having built up a friendship with this source over the years we've both spent a lot of time talking about this problem. No one seems to have an answer for why some batches test clean and give every indication that they're good only to disappoint hundreds of people in one night. The problem has gotten so bad now that I know lots of folks that just refuse to use MDMA any longer. Some just switched to MDA, some just gave up on things all together or moved on to RCs, some probably wouldn't feel good MDMA at all considering how much they've taken in their lives. I think that's why this is so hard to pin down because there are just so many variables.

All I know is that I can feel the difference, everything I take is tested, and my history of use means I shouldn't be dealing with any issues of tolerance. Last year I gifted a press to someone and they called me from a show complaining how the pill did nothing and that I should complain to the source. They later complained to the source themselves. I kept the other pill and took it on vacation. It ended up being one of the strongest rolls I've ever had and that was with a bit of tolerance because I had taken MDMA a month or two before my trip. The pill tested at some 250+mgs which is double my usual dose. It should have blew that guys head off but he abused mints so much over the years that he couldn't feel anything anymore and his body would instantly reject MDMA when he swallowed it most of the time (he'd puke it out within minutes of taking any press or capsule).

Magic from the EU? Surely not lol.

Well it would be interesting to compare the magic and meh samples by TLC. I'll be updating my experiments with TLC, including precisely what I did, after I do some more on some bigger plates I've got on order. Unfortunately I only ever encounter meh so can't do comparisons. Feel free to dm me for more info.

As to MDA. Yeah, everything I've tried (from EU or Canada) has been meh. More visuals to be fair, and longer lasting, as typical of mda, but still meh with regards to things like euphoria.

I'll send you a PM as well. I'm surprised to hear you have Meh MDA. Perhaps we've just been lucky here and haven't ended up with any MehDA.
 
MehDMA after a long break is like taking MDMA a few nights or perhaps a week after having taken it before. MehDMA makes me the feel the same way MDMA did when I attempted to take it for the third time in the span of one month. Basically, I just get a lot of side effects, minimal euphoria, and it all just seems like a waste. It feels different enough from the good MDMA that I know it can't be the same drug though. The sedation really is the main tell for me.

This is why the problem is so insidious. Thank you for posting, because we need posters like you who can comment on the issue without the nagging doubt of "loss of magic." Hard to find people who have been around long enough to have experienced the range of MDMA product variation, but have not used enough MDMA for there to be a question about whether or not it is the user.

I realize that my history of use makes me one of the questionable users. However, I agree with you that the difference in effect is noticeable enough that you can tell it is a different drug. After a 5 year break, when my partner did MehDMA (the sample that contained the MBDB) he said it was not worth his time, and just, "a collection of symptoms/side effects." I'd adapted to it and grown used to the minimal effects, but hearing his reaction motivated me to try to figure out what was going on.
 
I have a message to qdance, partyflock, cp and other big mehdma labs, all they advocates who for sure are following this amazing thread.
With all your tools, knowledge and now with valuable information that this thread can offer you.
You have a chance to be first who can indentify what is wrong with mdma available today, improve your production, increase the quality, decrease quantity, make a huge profit and make us all happy again
 
Unfortunately, the pills that I just obtained are not MDMA.

I did a full set of reagent tests on them.

Marquis - odd, slow purple reaction (I thought, ok, maybe the reagent is old, no biggie)
Mecke - Straight to black on contact with no intermediate green
Lieberman - Black/Brown
Mandelin - Purple/Black
Simon's - No response

Edited to add: I know how extremely unlikely it is, but the results almost looked like heroin on the chart.

Just to be sure my Simon's was not bad, I tested another sample and it turned blue with no issue.

Sending one in for testing to see what it is.
 
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Good news for all you Q-dance pushers in the thread...

Someone in the US seems to have them. So, I will give it a go. Onward for science. Yes, they appear to have the NL stamp on the back.
 
Good news for all you Q-dance pushers in the thread...

Someone in the US seems to have them. So, I will give it a go. Onward for science. Yes, they appear to have the NL stamp on the back.
Yeah I'm waiting for some as well. I'm working on the formula: P(magic) = P(real QDance) * P(QDance = Magic) = 0.1 * 0.1 = 1 in a hundred but at this point its worth a try
 
keep in mind those qdance you guys are referring to (assuming green-yellow) have been in circulation for 6 months already and there are already many copies out. Hopefully its the real deal!
 
keep in mind those qdance you guys are referring to (assuming green-yellow) have been in circulation for 6 months already and there are already many copies out. Hopefully its the real deal!

Ug. So, do you recommend just not bothering? Do you think it is likely just a copycat?
 
Ug. So, do you recommend just not bothering? Do you think it is likely just a copycat?

Its hard to say. I always try to go for the newest press in circulation (which are currently the pirellis/wifis) before the copies come out. But it could just be old stock dealers are trying to move. Maybe see if you can grab the minimum amount and test for yourself
 


NOTE: A handy draft summary (work-in-progress) of some of the key content covered in this thread can be accessed ⫸HERE⫷




Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is an extremely fine bleach white crystalline powder that is fluffy and lays just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will literally melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. All you want to do is touch and feel on the person youre with and tell them how beautiful they are and how much you love them etc. There are massive eye wiggles and conversation flows like new born buddas. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to modern day MDMA. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. I had both of these pills tested on ecstasydata and both came back as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. The high from these pills seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. There was no next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day. There is a HUGE giveaway that youre doing todays crappy MDMA. Your pupils will not dialate all the way to the very edge like old school ecstasy. With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge. With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dialate to slightly beyond normal if at all. Thats a big giveaway youre doing new school MDMA junk.

Before you jump to the assumption that this Le Junk guy is just old, hes done way to much ecstasy over the course of his lifetime and this is just a matter of tolerance, please re-read my post stating that I still have access to old school MDMA that Ive had since the 1980s. So in one hand I have modern day lab tested MDMA crap and in the other hand, old school MDMA heaven. So tolerance is out the window. Moving forward...

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's just a sub-par, little euphoria, no real love or empathy, fucked up kinda buzz. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!


I gotta say I would LOVE to try the stuff you had in 85, the quality of this drug has gone to shit over the years. I did it in 1994 and my experience was a lot like you described. It made me wonder why the government never made this a weapon on war. I don't see how anyone would want to fight or harm another person while experiencing this heaven like feeling. I'd love to see the everyone on this drug at the same time, all the hate, racism, jealousy, and anger would just melt away. A perfect world. I never could understand how this drug could make someone feel that good. Is your contact still producing this by chance? Seems the world could use a little love and warm feelings these days.
 
Its hard to say. I always try to go for the newest press in circulation (which are currently the pirellis/wifis) before the copies come out. But it could just be old stock dealers are trying to move. Maybe see if you can grab the minimum amount and test for yourself

Problem is that there just are not USA suppliers with Q-Dance. This is the first one I have seen. They would have had to import it from EU. Maybe that took time?
 
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