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Police Brutality Thread

But, how do we realistically implement said structure?
Therein lies the rub. How do you reboot society to believe that all men are equal. That all men should be treated with equal dignity and respect. That all deserve an equal education. That all deserve equal healthcare.

And do so without engendering a society that confuses the privilege of equality with a right to be equal.
 
Reply: structure


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Therein lies the rub. How do you reboot society to believe that all men are equal. That all men should be treated with equal dignity and respect. That all deserve an equal education. That all deserve equal healthcare.

And do so without engendering a society that confuses the privilege of equality with a right to be equal.

It's very difficult, because our current advanced social constructs used religion to evolve into what it is today. Religion, at one point in our species past, was necessary. My personal opinion, is our species is ready for a further evolution of our society - but some of the root problems lie in how religion was used early on and how to address those outdated mechanisms to govern human behavior.
 
Sure, but we have far exceeded the scope of the original post. Not that it is a bad thing, perhaps it just doesn't belong here and merits its own thread.

Fair enough, point conceded.
 
Not just religion. Politics <> power <> greed <> religion all sat around the campfire singing holding hands singing kumbaya and ensuring those that had influence over the general populace were able to retain it.

Oh for sure, I'm just saying religion was one of the very early on mechanisms the construct evolved from - and addressed your specific question about priviledge and equality.
 
If someone wants to create another thread, please do, but your discussion never veered too far away from the subject imo.
 
If someone wants to create another thread, please do, but your discussion never veered too far away from the subject imo.

I'd prefer to keep it here, especially if mods are okay with it, because I really still believe it's an important tangent point of the root issue of these discussions. It would lose some of it's context in a standalone thread, I fear.
 
I have a feeling, or hope, this tangent discussion is leading up to eventually loop back around to the main issue. That would be a successful discussion, in my humble opinion :)

So, that's the trillion dollar question right: what does a fully reworked social construct look like? Is it possible?
 
I'm just saying religion was one of the very early on mechanisms the construct evolved from
I'm not sure about that. I don't think religion, especially organised religion, played that big a part in the alpha-male dominated clans of cave dwellers 100,000 years ago. I think that was more about power.

Certainly religion came into play with shaman influencing a tribe's decision making but the alpha-male was still the big boss. Until such a time came that the alpha-male could not dare go against the shaman lest he risk invoking the wrath of the gods.
 
I'm not sure about that. I don't think religion, especially organised religion, played that big a part in the alpha-male dominated clans of cave dwellers 100,000 years ago. I think that was more about power.

Certainly religion came into play with shaman influencing a tribe's decision making but the alpha-male was still the big boss. Until such a time came that the alpha-male could not dare go against the shaman lest he risk invoking the wrath of the gods.

Well, look at how, for the United States, the Declaration of Independence refers to a God numerous times. And then, the Constitution has no references to a God.

I think these distinctions are notable, because it was required to include for a majority of it's population, at the time, to ensure majority accepted and abided by this construct.

I absolutely agree, at a point in our species, long ago, religion played no part.

In order to achieve society and civilization, religion was used as the mechanism early on to make people trust strangers and allowed an early on way to govern human behavior to work together for the cumulative benefit of the whole.

They actually found a relic, over 10,000 years old, that shows how our species has been using religion for these purposes once our brains evolved to what they did.
 
Well, look at how, for the United States, the Declaration of Independence refers to a God numerous times. And then, the Constitution has no references to a God.
Let's take a step back and temporarily suspend the notion of the United States and every other country for a minute.

They actually found a relic, over 10,000 years old, that shows how our species has been using religion for these purposes once our brains evolved to what they did.
I'm pretty sure religion, as we know it is even older than that. Long before our predecessors started the migration out of Africa, religion and the use of religion to manipulate the tribe was a thing. Religion, and the fear that the gods would seek revenge if you stepped outside the shaman's divine teaching , followed naturally. This is not surprising however. Primitive man looked upon the flowing waters and came to the natural conclusion that, since it is not a man that makes the river flow, it must be the work of some higher power. The shaman just tapped into that and declared themselves a prophet of that higher power. This then created a counter to the alpha-male and, over time, was used to usurp the power of the alpha-male, for good or for bad.

And so the gods of the river, the gods of the sky, the gods of the moon, the gods of the trees, etc. were given names and statues of them were conceived and constructed so that the populace had a physical object they could bow before. Because there were now physical manifestations of the gods, even the alpha-male (a.k.a. Pharaoh, Caesar, big-boss) also had to bow to the statues lest he anger the gods and upset the populace.

Lo and behold, while all this bowing and scraping was going on, along comes some dudes saying "Hey guys, there is only one god". Resultant effect = organised religion. Yet still you had the alpha-male except the title has changed. It is now no longer Pharaoh or Caesar, it is King or Emperor. But still the quest for more power (invasion of neighboring territories and suppressing the conquered), greed (more land with tax-paying peasants to farm the land = greater wealth), politics (if my daughter marries the king's son I will be a member of the court) and religion (if the King pisses off god he's not gonna be popular) hold fast.

Not much has changed. Well changed a little perhaps. Now we call the alpha-male 'president' or 'prime-minister'. But the alpha-male's actions still require sanctioning by greed (corporations), power (lobby groups) and religion.

I fear that while self-interest and self-benefit dictate the rules and thinking of society, the aforementioned constructs cannot be rebooted. Or, they could, but it would require the cooperation of the global society, not just a Black Lives Matter movement, or a Greenpeace movement or an independent Hong Kong movement or an anti-apartheid movement. It has to be a collective effort, a collective will to stop thinking about ourselves and start thinking about the future's of our children and their children as a whole.

Sadly however, the socio-polito-economical construct that we and our recent ancestors have been born into dictates we have to act for our self-interest. We have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

As long as we continue under the yoke of the current socio-polito-economical construct, our children, and their children, will continue the trend and these circumstances and debates will reappear again, and again, and again.
 
I'm pretty sure religion, as we know it is even older than that.

Oh absolutely, that's just the earliest physical evidence of it. Like you said, look at what tribes that have not been influenced by modern society believe: the water, weather, etc. is controlled by a higher power. What we don't understand, scares us, and we constantly need to make things make sense.

Let's take a step back and temporarily suspend the notion of the United States and every other country for a minute.

In order to talk about these current situations, we have to take what we know about how we got to the point of our country being founded, and then specifically discuss how our current society evolved - and the inherent nuances of it.

I fear that while self-interest and self-benefit dictate the rules and thinking of society, the aforementioned constructs cannot be rebooted. Or, they could, but it would require the cooperation of the global society, not just a Black Lives Matter movement, or a Greenpeace movement or an independent Hong Kong movement or an anti-apartheid movement. It has to be a collective effort, a collective will to stop thinking about ourselves and start thinking about the future's of our children and their children as a whole.

Absolutley, and therein lies the problem. I think change, at this point, can only happen slowly without disrupting the functional aspect of society.
 
Those of us who have been paying attention will never support the racist black supremacist group black lives matter. They are racist, militant/extremist, terrorists, and want chaos, and anarchy. Black people are murdered daily by other blacks. Many black people in North America, and other countries are very bigoted and racist to other blacks and hate black LGBT people, but you never hear about this. BLM was never about helping black people in the USA, ending police brutality, etc. Black lives matter does not give a fuck about black or black African people living in other countries despite what their ghetto trash manifesto claims. If they did care they would speak out against how Obama, Biden, and Hillary KKKlinton got rid of Gadaffi in Libya, yet the new leader has legalised and continued the pan-Arab slave trade which was very brutal, has been happening for centuries and still goes on today in 2020.

No I am not supporting any type of slavery, Gadaffi or any dictatorship.

#fuckblm
 
In order to talk about these current situations, we have to take what we know about how we got to the point of our country being founded, and then specifically discuss how our current society evolved - and the inherent nuances of it.
Again Deru, we need to step back from the notion of "country". Modern society's roots were established before Chris Columbus or the vikings before him even "discovered" North America as a continent, let alone America as a country. Modern society has it roots in ancient Egypt, Greece, Mesopotamia and Rome, probably even further back than that. Even back then it was a case of the strong dominating the week, slaves (sourced from conquered tribes or treated as 3rd class citizens being used for free labor.

The roots of modern society started growing before men drew lines on maps and the notion of "country".
 
religion was used as the mechanism early on to make people trust strangers and allowed an early on way to govern human behavior to work together for the cumulative benefit of the whole.
I'm not so sure about that. There may have been cases, few and far between, where this may have been true but I can't see how religious wars (e.g. Catholic vs Protestant, Crusader vs Saracen), the Spanish Inquisition, conversion/brain-washing of indigenous South American tribes by Portuguese missionaries, human sacrifice to appease the gods by etc. ad nauseum could be perceived as benefiting the whole. Seems to me like only a few high-profile individuals and the organizations they represent benefited.

I'm more inclined to suggest that religion was used as a weapon to control human behavior, not govern it. Exceptions apply, of course.
 
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