Wentworth211
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2019
- Messages
- 19
Hey guys, I’ve had ltc for about a year and a half now and have just been watching this forum ever since.
What made me decide to post is that fact that I’ve discovered EXACTLY what is wrong with each and every one of us. This is after a year of research and speaking with neurologists.
To be clear for all of you. Taking this drug did not give you mercury poisoning. And (this is the worst one I hear) this DID NOT bring out an underlying disorder.
When you took however much during a specific period, you damaged the 5HT2A Axons which are the nerve endings of the brain cells that give signals from serotonin.
Axons undergo LONG TERM recovery and has been proven to do so in mice over the course of 3 months. The mice didn’t show full recovery in those 3 month but they still showed remarkable progress.
Part 2
MDMA is unique to other drugs/serotonin in agonists in which it affects the 5HT2A receptor which is different from the typical serotonin receptor involved in depression, 5HT1A.
So essentially we have an entirely different form of depression than most people.
this link below shows everything you need to know about 5HT2A and you will notice when reading the “negative” side effects are eerily similar to LTC.
5HT2A Receptors: Link to Anxiety, Fatigue & Sleep Problems? - SelfHacked
The 5-HT2A receptor has been linked with anxiety, pain, insomnia, and the psychedelic effects of LSD. Find out which factors decrease it here.selfhacked.com
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART:
because most depression treatment is aimed towards repairing 5HT1A, most of us are trying to recover the wrong way which could lead to prolonged recovery. The biggest example of this is the use of SSRIS.
Another study has shown that the use of SSRIs or antipsychotics will upregulate 5ht1a but HEAVILY down regulate 5HT2A. So to end the life long ltc debate, SSRIS will make LTC worse and longer. Here’s the source:
Regulation of central 5-HT2A receptors: a review of in vivo studies - PubMed
Numerous investigations have studied in vivo regulation of central 5-HT2A receptors. The majority of pharmacological studies point to non-classical regulation of this site. Serotonergic denervation does not modify 5-HT2A receptor density or second messenger responses (phosphoinositide...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
however the article also says 5ht1a activity modulate 5HT2A. In essence, taking a LOW dose of any serotonin acting supplement can help.
CBD has also been shown to enhance 5HT2A receptor activity for the better.
Now guys we all know this really sucks and I’ve been reading all of your posts for so long. But honestly I’ve been doing so much better, I feel like I’ll only need a few more months before I’m 100. But for those of you that’s just starting or is still in the shit for a bit longer, here’s my story and what has helped me:
-Fell into ltc November 2018
-felt absolutely horrible overnight, like hell on earth
-smoked weed for 6-7 months straight trying to avoid the pain
-November 2019 finally stopped all drugs/alc saw improvement by January on depression but anxiety and horrible cognitive dysfunction still there
-stayed drug free will small improvements, quit my SSRI in March with much larger improvement today
-now jogging everyday and keeping brain active.
-a lot of symptoms not half as bad, cognitive dysfunction and anxiety shown rapid improvement, but self esteem still very low
Top things that held me back
1. Weed
Okay guys we know weed is a “medicine” but when you get high off any medicine for that matter, it’s just a recreational drug like alc. don’t lie to yourself, weed is making you worse. Cut that, cut alc, cut juul/cigs(I know this ones hard) and cut coffee. When you quit all that then your brain can START recovery.
2. SSRIs
I took remeron almost all of my time thinking it was helping me. When I found out the truth a little back and quit I saw a small increase in anxiety but followed by a BIG leap in my emotional stability. Y’all need to go natural
3. Psychological Problem Vs Medical Problem
This one hits the closest to me. When your serotonin axons are damaged like this, your brain can’t possibly understand what’s going on. So it assumes things external to you are the problem. You have to remember that’s not the problem. For so long the cornerstone of my LTC was thinking it was because people didn’t like me or thought I was a stupid. I know this isn’t true because before LTC I had small thoughts like that but they NEVER affected me and this was still confident. I notice whenever I’d finally work out a problem mentally I’d feel good for a minute or so and then start worrying about something else.
^the best advice I can give to cope with that is to remember, you don’t have to be happy and joyful all the time.You don’t have to have perfect emotions. Just remember that all of your problems and emotions are completely SECONDARY to living a good life and recovering. If you woke up, took a long jog,hopped on a brain training app, got a lot of work done, shoot some hoops, make a gooddinner, read a book, and maybe watch yourfavorite show,, it doesnt matter at all how you felt that whole day, it matterswhat you did and that will give you good solace at the end of
Hey guys, I’ve had ltc for about a year and a half now and have just been watching this forum ever since.
What made me decide to post is that fact that I’ve discovered EXACTLY what is wrong with each and every one of us. This is after a year of research and speaking with neurologists.
To be clear for all of you. Taking this drug did not give you mercury poisoning. And (this is the worst one I hear) this DID NOT bring out an underlying disorder.
When you took however much during a specific period, you damaged the 5HT2A Axons which are the nerve endings of the brain cells that give signals from serotonin.
Axons undergo LONG TERM recovery and has been proven to do so in mice over the course of 3 months. The mice didn’t show full recovery in those 3 month but they still showed remarkable progress.
Part 2
MDMA is unique to other drugs/serotonin in agonists in which it affects the 5HT2A receptor which is different from the typical serotonin receptor involved in depression, 5HT1A.
So essentially we have an entirely different form of depression than most people.
this link below shows everything you need to know about 5HT2A and you will notice when reading the “negative” side effects are eerily similar to LTC.
5HT2A Receptors: Link to Anxiety, Fatigue & Sleep Problems? - SelfHacked
The 5-HT2A receptor has been linked with anxiety, pain, insomnia, and the psychedelic effects of LSD. Find out which factors decrease it here.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART:
because most depression treatment is aimed towards repairing 5HT1A, most of us are trying to recover the wrong way which could lead to prolonged recovery. The biggest example of this is the use of SSRIS.
Another study has shown that the use of SSRIs or antipsychotics will upregulate 5ht1a but HEAVILY down regulate 5HT2A. So to end the life long ltc debate, SSRIS will make LTC worse and longer. Here’s the source:
Regulation of central 5-HT2A receptors: a review of in vivo studies - PubMed
Numerous investigations have studied in vivo regulation of central 5-HT2A receptors. The majority of pharmacological studies point to non-classical regulation of this site. Serotonergic denervation does not modify 5-HT2A receptor density or second messenger responses (phosphoinositide...
however the article also says 5ht1a activity modulate 5HT2A. In essence, taking a LOW dose of any serotonin acting supplement can help.
CBD has also been shown to enhance 5HT2A receptor activity for the better.
Now guys we all know this really sucks and I’ve been reading all of your posts for so long. But honestly I’ve been doing so much better, I feel like I’ll only need a few more months before I’m 100. But for those of you that’s just starting or is still in the shit for a bit longer, here’s my story and what has helped me:
-Fell into ltc November 2018
-felt absolutely horrible overnight, like hell on earth
-smoked weed for 6-7 months straight trying to avoid the pain
-November 2019 finally stopped all drugs/alc saw improvement by January on depression but anxiety and horrible cognitive dysfunction still there
-stayed drug free will small improvements, quit my SSRI in March with much larger improvement today
-now jogging everyday and keeping brain active.
-a lot of symptoms not half as bad, cognitive dysfunction and anxiety shown rapid improvement, but self esteem still very low
Top things that held me back
1. Weed
Okay guys we know weed is a “medicine” but when you get high off any medicine for that matter, it’s just a recreational drug like alc. don’t lie to yourself, weed is making you worse. Cut that, cut alc, cut juul/cigs(I know this ones hard) and cut coffee. When you quit all that then your brain can START recovery.
2. SSRIs
I took remeron almost all of my time thinking it was helping me. When I found out the truth a little back and quit I saw a small increase in anxiety but followed by a BIG leap in my emotional stability. Y’all need to go natural
3. Psychological Problem Vs Medical Problem
This one hits the closest to me. When your serotonin axons are damaged like this, your brain can’t possibly understand what’s going on. So it assumes things external to you are the problem. You have to remember that’s not the problem. For so long the cornerstone of my LTC was thinking it was because people didn’t like me or thought I was a stupid. I know this isn’t true because before LTC I had small thoughts like that but they NEVER affected me and this was still confident. I notice whenever I’d finally work out a problem mentally I’d feel good for a minute or so and then start worrying about something else.
^the best advice I can give to cope with that is to remember, you don’t have to be happy and joyful all the time.You don’t have to have perfect emotions. Just remember that all of your problems and emotions are completely SECONDARY to living a good life and recovering. If you woke up, took a long jog,hopped on a brain training app, got a lot of work done, shoot some hoops, make a gooddinner, read a book, and maybe watch yourfavorite show,, it doesnt matter at all how you felt that whole day, it matterswhat you did and that will give you good solace at the end of the day even if you still don’t feel good.
Things that did help me:
1. keeping the brain active
This should be supplemented with exercise. The best things to get the brain(especially the parts of the brain that were damaged) running for me was playing sudoku, crosswords, and brain training apps like Neuronation. Also learning a new sport will help too. I’d recommend basketball since if you don’t feel like playing with others you can practice you shot alone. Before ltc I couldn’t shoot for shit but now I’ve got a crazy jump shot that I’ll be using a lot more when I’m 100%.
2. Exercise
Exercise is the best brain supplement. Real supplements help but exercise is king because it enhances neurogenesis, BDNF, and growth hormone.
3. cold shower following a run
This is good because it helps your body naturally produce CBD which will help your seratonin Axons in a more natural way. I used to take a hundred supplements but we don’t have any research in dosage / combos and it’s best to stay on the safe and natural side by take a minimal amt .
4. Supplements I take
-Fish oil(ofc) this is a given, if ur not taking this then boo
-creatine (I run in the morning, get all my work done, then take creatine in the afternoon before a real workout) it’s supposed to facilitate hippocampal repair during stress as well
-B-complex (every now and then, not every day)
-lions mane before bed
I’ve also been considering rhodiola. From the research I’ve done, it looks like a great choice as it modulates nuerogenesis, increases 5ht1a seratonin, and is an adaptogenic that lowers cortisol levels.
sorry if this post was messy, I’m writing on my phone and didn’t reread anything. I hope I helped some of y’all tho. I didn’t want to post at all on here but some of this needed to be said. Hopefully now that we know exactly what’s going on we can stop worrying about it and start focusing more on recovery. We gota LONG life ahead of us so let’s not think rashly/close minded if you know what I mean. I know it sucks especially since you have this huge problem that no one in your life can really understand. Just remember when your better you’ll be normal with ALL this experience (my work ethic has never been better) and things will be better than you can even imagine. Love you guys.
I’m also a year and 4 months into my own ordeal caused by Mdma. I have arrived at the exact same conclusion as you through consultations with professionals in the area and my own knowledge.
Mdma use certainly does reduce 5ht2a receptor density I’ll post some studies to back this up. However I’ll post another extract of interest.
“In recent MDMA users, post-synaptic 5-HT(2A) receptor densities were significantly lower in all cortical areas studied, while 5-HT(2A) receptor densities were significantly higher in the occipital cortex of ex-MDMA users. The combined results of this study suggest a compensatory upregulation of post-synaptic 5-HT(2A) receptors in the occipital cortex of ex-MDMA users due to low synaptic 5-HT levels.”
Ex users had higher than normal densities of HT2a receptors, which I guess is a compensatory healing mechanism. However you may think this is a good thing but that could be incorrect. A fair few other studies have shown that increased 5ht2a receptor density have been found in the brains of people with epilepsy and those who suffer depression or who have experienced chronic stress. This is one theory why ssris work which is by downregulating 5h2a receptors to an extent. ( I would however never recommend an ssri). Chronic stress also increases 5ht2a receptor density. That’s how things like ptsd etc end up causing mood swings depression etc.
My theory is that the original Mdma use caused an increase in glutamatory excitation in the brain which causes all the acute symptoms the days later derealization, panic attacks, movement disorders, visual disturbances etc. This increase In glutamate which you can look up may be caused by some kind of serotoninergic damage/excess signalling. Your cortisol is then chronically raised which over time the chronic stress leads to your brain increasing 5h2a receptor density which in layman’s terms puts your serotonin system out of natural order. (Too much is just as bad as too little.)
- Just as you said though exercise and diet especially cardio and hiit.. Mix it up though weight lifting one day, run the next. Are the best possibly things you can do for the depression.
- Meditation/mindfulness is good for calming your nervous system. Good for anxiety.
- Epa only fish oil (Nordic naturals) helps.
Iv tried literally all other supplements/nootropics and this is the only one that won’t placebo out on you after a couple of days use Lol.
- If you want to get on medication I’m going to firmly say fuck ssris. They may even help you in the short term but you will experience the exact same symptoms as a LTC when you come off them. I guarantee. They downregulate your receptors over time. (look this up)
- I’m only going to recommend one medication which is Lamotrigine in a lower than normal dose. I’m talking 2mg to 5mg to normalise your glutamate system and in turn calm you nervous system. Normal dosages used for epilepsy and mood disorders are 150mg to 300mg titrated up over many months at 25mg at a time. You will find these dosages to be too high. Unfortunately you will probably have little luck getting a dr to prescribe it at such a low dose. (You could say you tried ssris once and they sent you unstable and you want to try a mood stabaliser to help with the withdrawal symptoms but your sensitive to drugs so need 5mg pills to ) I dunno haha. I want to try this one as I have read so much about it. I tried 25mg but couldn’t handle the side effects.
Anyway mate let me know how your recovery is going and what you find helps and we can exchange ideas. I took Mdma in feb 2019 so we are pretty much at the same stage depending on how much damage we done.
I have days were I feel normal and then suddenly days were I can’t get out of bed so depressed. Waves I would call them that all started after Mdma.
anyone here is experience the same thing?
