Which drug or concoction is worse for an organism to ingest? I remember seeing acetone as one of the active ingredients of krokodil, however I’m skeptical of the toxicity of acetone even when I consider the compounded CNS depression of both acetone and opioids.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids Krokodil vs Desomorphine
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sewerslide.666mg
Bluelighter
they use red phosphorus to danger ...
That’s disgusting. Legalization (or at least a mild degree of chemistry knowledge) would destroy any motivation for that concoction to be sold.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Krokodil is most accurately used as a term to describe the incredibly crude desomorphine product produced by red phosphorous/iodine reaction (Nagai reduction) on codeine. The hegative destructive effects to human tissue are no doubt a mixture of symptoms resulting from toxic phosphorous/iodine species present (some phosphorus compounds cause bone toxicity, hydrogen iodide present is a nasty acid, presumably there might be phosphine or phosphorous triiodide too... nasty)
Desomorphine is the primary active alkaloid in the mixture. When isolated on its own, as a pure alkaloid, it's Just Another Opioid with nothing unusual about its toxicology.
Desomorphine is the primary active alkaloid in the mixture. When isolated on its own, as a pure alkaloid, it's Just Another Opioid with nothing unusual about its toxicology.
And then there’s classical acetone. Anesthetic as well as excellent organic solvent.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
I don't see how that's relevant. Acetone was never used as an anesthetic either to my knowledge.
As I understand it the solvent used in krokodil synthesis is naptha or other petroleum.
As I understand it the solvent used in krokodil synthesis is naptha or other petroleum.
Would you rather use heroin laced with fentanyl or krokodil?
It was used by me as an anesthetic after my liver metabolized isopropanol into a ketone using certain enzymes.
Nicocastillo7
Bluelighter
Will there be a way to clean the mixture and separate the desomorphine? And consuming desomorphine for another ROA, such as oral, smoked, or does it only work IV?
Well assuming we’re talking about “Krokodil” then I’m sure it would work, however the problem is that there are impurities which can be toxic to the human body when inhaled.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
There are indeed ways to seperate the desomorphine from other muck produced in the street route, If you had a well equiped lab it wouldn't be much of an issue. Acid/base extraction , crystallization, possibly column chromatography.
There's no reason to believe it wouldn't be active every way you'd expect for a drug, oral, smoked, etc. After all desomorphine is juat snother opioid. Its closest relative is something like levorphanol, for reference.
draculic acid69
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It works any other way.
draculic acid69
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The problems with krokodil are caused by using dirty impure ingredients such as petrol instead of say toluene and a lack of filtration & purification procedures and on top of this they mix promethazine in with it which is dangerous to i.v. as that alone can cause limb damage and necrosis.
ppl have needed to have arms amputated after i.v.ing promethazine so imagine all three of these factors combined over years of multiple times a day injections and that's why there so fukd up from it.the drug itself (desomorphine) is really just another pharmaceutical op8 that wouldn't do anything resembling the damage done by street krokodil if it was purified.
ppl have needed to have arms amputated after i.v.ing promethazine so imagine all three of these factors combined over years of multiple times a day injections and that's why there so fukd up from it.the drug itself (desomorphine) is really just another pharmaceutical op8 that wouldn't do anything resembling the damage done by street krokodil if it was purified.
draculic acid69
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Somewhere around the Czech republic is starting to see ppl with phossy jaw
caused by crudely made meth which is then used without going through the purification process thus leaving red phosphorus and shit in it.one guy kept using it until his jaw needed to be amputated.there mixing red phosphorus and iodine and psuedoephedrine and cooking it then just boiling it down to a syrup and taking that.no extraction or purification.its like the amphetamine equivalent of krokodil.
caused by crudely made meth which is then used without going through the purification process thus leaving red phosphorus and shit in it.one guy kept using it until his jaw needed to be amputated.there mixing red phosphorus and iodine and psuedoephedrine and cooking it then just boiling it down to a syrup and taking that.no extraction or purification.its like the amphetamine equivalent of krokodil.
If you gonna use krokodil you might as well get a violin spider to bite you repeatedly and watch your flesh rot away.
Etterwonde
Bluelighter
"Krokodil", yes. Desomorphine, no.
4DQSAR
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As @sekio points out, krokodil is a dubious concoction containing along with desomorphine, at least a dozen other side-products. This is due to the poor 'cookery' that involves red phosphorous (which will form phosphoramides - highly toxic) along with the sought active opioids.
It's not that there aren't safer routes that could equally easily be used in the 'cookery' but making them public would perforce provide a new route to methamphetamine 'cooks' so what do you do? Make things a bit safer for krokodil users or unleash an unknown amount of methamphetamine onto the streets?
It's not as if the current route used to make krokodil couldn't, with just a bit more work remove those toxic impurities. It's just that people don't. If people will accept the product, why go to extra effort?
It's not that there aren't safer routes that could equally easily be used in the 'cookery' but making them public would perforce provide a new route to methamphetamine 'cooks' so what do you do? Make things a bit safer for krokodil users or unleash an unknown amount of methamphetamine onto the streets?
It's not as if the current route used to make krokodil couldn't, with just a bit more work remove those toxic impurities. It's just that people don't. If people will accept the product, why go to extra effort?
4DQSAR
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Well, is it then technically krokodil?
I read all of the studies and samples contained the actives:
-desoxymorphine-D (desomorphine)
-desoxymorphine-C
-desoxycodeine
-codeine
and the nor compounds of the above.
Along with phosphoramides, of all the nor compounds.
a B/A wash WILL remove the toxins reliably, but one presumes mechanical losses mean that one has to smurf pharmaies or have other routes to larger amounts of codeine.
I read all of the studies and samples contained the actives:
-desoxymorphine-D (desomorphine)
-desoxymorphine-C
-desoxycodeine
-codeine
and the nor compounds of the above.
Along with phosphoramides, of all the nor compounds.
a B/A wash WILL remove the toxins reliably, but one presumes mechanical losses mean that one has to smurf pharmaies or have other routes to larger amounts of codeine.
TheGyattDamnRizzler
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What are the dangers of red phosphorus. I believe it was used in older method of methamphetamine production. They like make it with matches or some shit. Is it ultra toxic? I feel like in krokodile there's worse stuff than red phosphorus.
4DQSAR
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Well, RP reacts with iodine to form HI (hydroiodic acid) which is a reducing agent. BUT it is also able to reduce RP to phosphine - a very toxic gas. Phosphorous triiodide is also a product and that is able to react with norcodeine, normorphine, nordesomorphine-C and nordesomorphine-D (nordesoxymorphine) to form phosphoramides - a toxic class of chemical.
So as it stands, korkodil WILL contain at least some of the above.
A step up is to make the HI, remove excess RP and then go on to use it - I've seen that done. But you still have the phosphine risk most people are unaware of.
I would use calcium hydroxide to form the calcium salt of the product (which is insoluble so drops out of solution) and go from there to make the hydrochloride. Of course, mechanical losses only make it practical at scale, or at least not the handful of doses a batch normally provides.
Overall, I think it better to steer clear of the stuff. There were serveral unidentified compounds so it's not possible to say that the above would remove them. I learnt of krokodil long ago and made a concerted effort at HR but what's better? Telling people how to make it safer and risk more 'cookery' or not tell people and let the damage occur? I don't have the answer to that one. I just know desomorphine was only use briefly in one nation and was then taken out of use, so maybe even in it's pure form it has adverse qualities?
So as it stands, korkodil WILL contain at least some of the above.
A step up is to make the HI, remove excess RP and then go on to use it - I've seen that done. But you still have the phosphine risk most people are unaware of.
I would use calcium hydroxide to form the calcium salt of the product (which is insoluble so drops out of solution) and go from there to make the hydrochloride. Of course, mechanical losses only make it practical at scale, or at least not the handful of doses a batch normally provides.
Overall, I think it better to steer clear of the stuff. There were serveral unidentified compounds so it's not possible to say that the above would remove them. I learnt of krokodil long ago and made a concerted effort at HR but what's better? Telling people how to make it safer and risk more 'cookery' or not tell people and let the damage occur? I don't have the answer to that one. I just know desomorphine was only use briefly in one nation and was then taken out of use, so maybe even in it's pure form it has adverse qualities?