What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[indigoaura]

Ok...so...hypothetically...

You could run a column with silica and no visual at all if you just constantly separate the results into separate test tubes, right?

 

[sekio]

According to Sekio, the non-colored MDMA salt and other impurities quench the fluorescence, which makes them observable.

Only in the case of using silica treated with a fluorescent dye. "Regular" silica will leave you scratching your head because it doesn't glow under UV.

You could run a column with silica and no visual at all if you just constantly separate the results into separate test tubes, right?

Absolutely. This is how people used to do chromatography all the time.

 

[indigoaura]

@sekio So, I could theoretically buy a column, buy silica, and buy a solvent. Then, run the column with narrow fractions, dry those fractions, identify which fractions contain MDMA using reagent testing, and then send all the fractions without MDMA to a lab for testing?

 

[sekio]

Yep. That's the easiest way.

 

[indigoaura]

@sekio I've read hexane works as a solvent, but it seems a bit unsafe for a novice. Do you have any specific solvent recommendations?

 

[mars2025]

@Wilson Wilson I think the simplest explanation of how you are getting magic from Q-Dance pills and other people are not is that there are fake pills in the market, or even, that Q-Dance sends certain regions different product than other regions. They may even have satellite locations prepping/pressing pills with different methodologies.

This explanation doesn't seem to fit... It would imply that every single one of Rainey's q-dance pills has been fake. And further that if you (Indigo) and Rainey got Wilson's stash of the OG q-dance pills, then you would find them to be magic.
If you believe this to be the case, then surely finding authentic qdance pills is easier than finding impurities in the GC/MS spectra?

When academics research MDMA, they work with young (20s) male subjects who are MDMA-naive (virgins). Wilson is reasonably close to such ideal subject (some lifetime MDMA use but less than Rainey), so he gets magic from Q-Dance. I believe Wilson would also get magic from MAPS labgrade mdma, as well as from Rainey's old skool pills. This is true for most young people who buy all those millions of Dutch presses.

Now when Ann Shulgin lost the magic, she was the opposite of the above in terms of lifetime use, age and gender. For many such users, the window to a magic experience (call it ++1/2 or better on Shulgin's scale) is reduced. If you take the same 80% mdma that you've always taken, it'll continue to work in most cases. But some other 80% batch may not work for you. If you take a multiyear break, your body also may not be able to get the magic back. And of course if you have health changes and start/stop taking some other medication. Basically, for many older users with large lifetime use, getting to a +++ is a narrow window and a delicate balancing act.

That's my understanding at the moment. May well be wrong

 

[ThreePointCircle]

@sekio I've read hexane works as a solvent, but it seems a bit unsafe for a novice. Do you have any specific solvent recommendations?

I've been working on getting TLC working. So far, I've only been successful using this system: DCM/methanol/ammonia 90:9:1

But I'm still playing around with it and haven't found a second spot yet (so, so far no evidence of a contaminant).

 

[indigoaura]

@mars2025 you are basically disregarding all of the anecdotes of young MDMA virgins or those with minimal use histories who have commented in this thread about meh product. You are basically boiling it all down to loss of magic, which has been repeatedly demonstrated to not fit as an explanation to the situations described in the thread.

Not trying to be condescending at all, but how much of the thread have you read? Did you mostly jump in to the end or have you read a lot of the anecdotal reports?

Also, me finding out that I can roll from a Q-dance pill does absolutely nothing to explain why I don't roll from 150 mg of 80% lab tested MDMA, and that is the question I am really interested in answering.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

MDMA HCL crystal can only ever be a maximum 84% pure. theres a huge difference in how potent or clean the roll is with 79% vs 84%

 

[indigoaura]

MDMA HCL crystal can only ever be a maximum 84% pure. theres a huge difference in how potent or clean the roll is with 79% vs 84%

In order for that 5% to have a significant impact on the roll, there has to be a contaminant present. Otherwise, all you would have to do to have the experience you want is increase the dosage.

Like, my 80% MDMA that I had tested should have hit like 120 mg with a 150 mg dose.

 

[sekio]

MDMA HCL crystal can only ever be a maximum 84% pure.

Using MDMA freebase as a standard, sure (the other 16% being hydrochloric acid). But most people use the HCl salt as a standard, ergo the maximum purity should be 100%.

Do you have any specific solvent recommendations?

Well, obviously all solvents beside water have some risk, but generally speaking what works for TLC seperations will work for columns too.

Solvent systems included: system A (98.5 parts methanol and 1.5 parts concentrated ammonia), system B (85 parts ethyl acetate, 10 parts methanol and 5 parts concentrated ammonia) and C (75 parts cyclohexane, 15 parts toluene and 10 parts diethylamine (sekio note: triethylamine/ammonia are easier to get))

(ref)

The spotted plates were developed in a saturated TLC chamber containing methanol:ammonia (100:1.5) (Bussey and Backer 1974; Furnari et al. 1998; Moffat 2004)

(ref)


There is no harm in experimenting and going off the beaten track, I'm sure you can come up with many different solvent systems that will work. Generally my methodology is run a TLC initially with 100% nonpolar solvent, then divide-and-conquer: run 50% polar 50% nonpolar, if the spots move too far, decrease polarity (25% polar/75% nonpolar, if they don't move enough, increase polarity (75% polar/25% nonpolar), repeat the process of running TLCs and adjusting polarity until you get the desired seperation. If you can't get a good resolution after 3 iterations, then switch solvent system (change either polar or nonpolar) and restart from the top.
1% of a base will help analysis of basic compounds like MDMA. Appropriate bases are triethylamine, ammonia, even pyridine if you are a masochist.

 

[indigoaura]

Thanks for your help @sekio. I think I'll watch some Youtube vids on TLC plates and try to wrap my head around that as well.

 

[indigoaura]

@TripSitterNZ - https://www.erowid.org/columns/crew/2017/01/oddity-testing-service-defines-pure-mdma-as-84-pure/

 

[user666]

You could run a column with silica and no visual at all if you just constantly separate the results into separate test tubes, right?

Yes if you knew when to start and stop collecting and if your solvent system is chosen properly to achieve a good separation.

I've read hexane works as a solvent, but it seems a bit unsafe for a novice.

Why? You inhale it every time you fill up the tank in your car.
It has low acute toxicity.
Yes, it is very flammable, but so are many other solvents.

Do you have any specific solvent recommendations?

I've heard good things about Acetonitrile.

 

[indigoaura]

I've been working on getting TLC working. So far, I've only been successful using this system: DCM/methanol/ammonia 90:9:1

But I'm still playing around with it and haven't found a second spot yet (so, so far no evidence of a contaminant).

Thanks! Keep me in the loop if you find a combo that shows separation and multiple spots.

 

[indigoaura]

Also, @TripSitterNZ , International Energy Control confirmed to me that the maximum purity they report is 100%. That means that my sample that tested as 80% MDMA is out of a total possible purity of 100%, not 84%.

 

[indigoaura]

From: https://www.erowid.org/columns/crew/2017/01/oddity-testing-service-defines-pure-mdma-as-84-pure/

If SaferParty received a tablet sample that contained 100mg of MDMA HCl and 200mg of lactose and inactive binders, what would the reported amount of MDMA be in that tablet? 100mg ? or would that qualify under your reporting rules as 84mg of MDMA (freebase)?”
Our reported content would be 100mg MDMA*HCl.

I feel like this confirms what we already know. These companies just do not report things that they consider to be binders or inactive.

 

[draculic acid69]

Did you need to rush to the toilet only to poop or also to pee ?

I know that talking about such things should be reserved to the kindergarten, but I can't help to notice that if the Meh MDMA is associated with:
- the lack of pupil dilation and tearing
- no urge to poop with a full colon
- no water retention, urinating easily.
- weak increase in heart rate and blood pressure

Then this set of symptoms points to a low Norepinephrine level ( or some norepinephrine Antagonist ).

Please read the Wikipedia article on Norepinephrine - it states that:


The sudden inhibition of Gastrointestinal Motility is known to decrease the intestinal muscle tone and water absorption and consequently can cause such "dumping"..

So what good is this observation?
IMO it might be useful as a reliable and objective "in vivo" test for Meh MDMA, because Norepinephrine in the blood is easy to test for (much easier than for Oxytocin). Also, I can't help but notice, that Norepinephrine is very similar to 3,4-MDMA chemically.

There could be two gotchas with this test, though:
1) The Norepinephrine in the serum (blood) is not the same as Norepinephrine in the brain (but it crosses the BBB easily)
2) A norepinephrine Antagonist might not lower norepinephrine's level in the blood, but it will prevent the binding of Norepinephrine to its receptors.

These confounders can be gotten around with indirect testing for known effects of noradrenaline in the blood, such as: increasing glucose level (while fasting), sodium retention and maybe heart rate/BP.


Note:
There are some common genetic mutations, which alter the response to noradrenaline. These mutants are confounders, too, but the majority of the population will have the classical response to noradreanline, e.g. pupil dilation.

This ability to pee normally rules out meh as being mbdb as was suggested earlier on. on mbdb pissing becomes quite difficult and while u feel the need to piss you can't get out more than a few drops before stopping.i don't get it with mdma just mbdb.it was a common side effect experienced by many ppl.its sort of a signature of the substance.

 

[sekio]

It has low acute toxicity.

It's certainly much more toxic than pentane/heptane/cyclohexane: hexane does metabolize eventually to the neurotoxin hexane-2,5-dione. So it's considered a carcinogen with chronic exposure.

I worked with it in the lab for ~6 years and don't have tumors yet though.

 

[draculic acid69]

@sekio I've read hexane works as a solvent, but it seems a bit unsafe for a novice. Do you have any specific solvent recommendations?

Hexane is perfectly safe for a novice to use if u r not a complete idiot and it sounds like u r not.