What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[indigoaura]

@rainey Do you have one pill left over from that old stash that you could set to the side for advanced testing? You are in a very, very unusual situation to clear this all up.

Your story shows that it is NOT loss of magic, and that there is something distinctly different about the products (unless it is all self suggestion and you just believed in the old pills more, which I think is unlikely).

What we need is detailed side by side analysis of the old pill and one of the "meh" samples.

I totally agree with all of this:

I used to rub my face up and down the back of the sofa, I used to moan and groan with ecstasy, and it used to come in wave after wave running through your body. I used to have this contorted grin on my face which made me look ridiculous.

The lack of rubbing/touching is a big telltale sign, IMO. Nobody does it on the stuff I have had access to. And, the midweek blues are just GONE.

Twice in the past 3 years I have experienced "almost old skool" effects but it only lasted 3/4 minutes and didn't go anywhere.

I would agree with that as well. Sometimes, on the come-up especially, it might feel like it is about to take off, but it just never does. There might be a moment or two where you get a glimmer of something similar, but it is so fleeting. Its like the whole experience is just cock-blocked.

I WISH I would have stocked up more on the old stuff and stashed it, but I did not have a lot of $ back then, and my supplier quit out of nowhere. If I knew then what I know now I would have stored pills for future use.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Is it negative publicity to their target audience though? Lets look at some of the headlines generated from hospitalizations and lab tests related to high dose pills.

Greater Manchester Police issue warning for super-strength Tesla pills
Warning over super-strength Rolls Royce ecstasy pills circulating at Warehouse Project
Warning over mega-dose Ecstasy pills flooding into New Zealand
Music festivals warn over 'very strong' blue 'Punisher' ecstasy pills that 'can result in death' after two revellers died at Mutiny

"super-strength" "mega-dose" "very strong"
If you are an average consumer used to other recreational drugs (and advertising in general), you generally expect stronger to be better. Headlines that directly mention death might certainly give you pause, but I see the others as positive advertising rather than negative publicity.

Tbh I think pretty much any drug user who reads that a particular batch of pills is "super strong" is gonna want some regardless of how the media twists it into "YOU WILL DIE!"

If they're smart they will break the pill up to split doses, but they obviously want the strongest pill for their money.

It's also just become a standard media scare tactic these days especially in the UK. Since most good pills coming to the UK now are those high dose Dutch ones, every single new press can be reported on in the same way, which gives the media a lot of easy free clickbait to take advantage of. That's all it is.

I do think one pill should equal one dose, but I also understand the motivation for higher doses: the big Dutch crews like Q-Dance who press these things are producing or buying MDMA in such enormous bulk that adding 100mg to each pill costs them hardly anything but demands a higher wholesale price and is more in demand from consumers. It's also an arms race between different crews, they wanna one up each other.

Finally it's important to note that the Dutch know how strong the pills are and it is perfectly normal to take them in halves. It's other countries who need to learn to do the same particularly the UK because our culture of boshing large doses of MDMA is frankly just plain stupid.

 

[Simosom]

Most of the MDMA and pills circulating in Europe is so called mehdma.
Does not matter if they comes from Partyflock or q dance crew, they are all meh Thats what is produced this days.
I have tried them all from early Ups, Tesla, Ikea, Heineken, Redbulls, Dominos, Mints, Superman... etc.
From Holland all that coming is meh.
I believe, Canada or some places US, localy produced, still can be found magic, but for the Europe i lost my hope.

 

[mars2025]

This, to me, proves it is not the same drug I am taking. No matter what pills I took, I, and everyone I knew, all had those effects with old skool pills, so why would it change for everyone?

Rainey, this is great! Thank you for the detailed answer! I just got some more questions if you have time.

Do you ever take MDA (aka sass, sally, sandy)? If yes, does MDA still work for you? Does MDA feel the same as it did pre-2010 or does it also feel different (same story as MDMA)? Can you tell MDA from MDMA when you take it?

Can we get a few more details on the last of your old skool Dove pills that you took recently compared to today's qdance:

Did you notice pupil dilation in each case?
Do you know the approximate mg of MDMA that you take in each case?
Any difference in onset times? Like 15 minutes, 45 minutes and so on
Any difference in the duration of the roll (peak, plateau). Qdance roll is worse but how long does it last? Like 2 hours, 3 hours
Did you still get upset stomach when you took your old skool Dove pills recently?
In the past you got upset stomach from both pills and crystal or just pills?

That's a lot... Just ignore whatever doesn't make sense or just ignore all of it

 

[mars2025]

Most of the MDMA and pills circulating in Europe is so called mehdma.
... I have tried them all from early Ups, Tesla, Ikea, Heineken, Redbulls, Dominos, Mints, Superman... etc.

What's the last time you had magic? Was it pill or crystal? US/Canadian or European? Anything you noted about it that's different from today's Dutch pills (smell, appearance and so on)?

Qdance gives authentic MDMA rolls to many users as WilsonWilson just reported here. But it does not work for others like Rainey.
So we need some explanation that fits both of these experiences without rejecting either one

 

[popsweat]

What's the last time you had magic? Was it pill or crystal? US/Canadian or European? Anything you noted about it that's different from today's Dutch pills (smell, appearance and so on)?

Qdance gives authentic MDMA rolls to many users as WilsonWilson just reported here. But it does not work for others like Rainey.
So we need some explanation that fits both of these experiences without rejecting either one

Keep in mind there are fake copies of qdance presses out so could be likely undesired effects are pressed with meh mdma

 

[ThreePointCircle]

The problem I'm having with suggestions of magic (and I have followed through on some of them), is that I'm not seeing someone say:

1) I know exactly what everyone is saying with regards to mehdma
2) I know exactly how this differs from magicdma
3) And this is a consistent source of magic...

 

[rainey]

ANSWERS INLINE: SO "CLICK TO EXPAND"

Rainey, this is great! Thank you for the detailed answer! I just got some more questions if you have time.

Do you ever take MDA (aka sass, sally, sandy)? If yes, does MDA still work for you? Does MDA feel the same as it did pre-2010 or does it also feel different (same story as MDMA)? Can you tell MDA from MDMA when you take it?

I didn't take mda back then I had no access to it but I bought it once from dm and yes it was very near to the old E but very trippy. There was no empathy but there was more hornyness than I get from recent mdma/pills. I did try a mix as some people have suggested old skool was a mdma.mda mix and although it was good, and although it made the roll nearer to old skool e those same key elements were still missing.

Can we get a few more details on the last of your old skool Dove pills that you took recently compared to today's qdance:

Did you notice pupil dilation in each case?

Its not a thing I ever looked at back then or now so cannot comment.

Do you know the approximate mg of MDMA that you take in each case?

The blue lovehearts I believe were only about 70mg and I would estimate about 3 pills worth (I will explain this in a minute)


Any difference in onset times? Like 15 minutes, 45 minutes and so on

Now you ask that YES......old pills were always 40-45min mark and with qdance its more 75-90 mins

Any difference in the duration of the roll (peak, plateau). Qdance roll is worse but how long does it last? Like 2 hours, 3 hours

Old skool pills I wouldn't contemplate redosing for at least 3.5 hours with modern pills around the 2hr mark

Did you still get upset stomach when you took your old skool Dove pills recently?

I cant remember but I do know this.....you again reminded me of this.......with old skool very often I would get the urge to empty my bowels after 25-30 mins after dropping but I never get that with modern pills

In the past you got upset stomach from both pills and crystal or just pills?

not that I remember......just to empty bowels but that was only on occasion not all the time.

That's a lot... Just ignore whatever doesn't make sense or just ignore all of it

Explanation of "3 pills worth".........I was buying these blue lovehearts from a dealer and when he ran out he asked me if I wanted to buy the powder from the bottom of the bags that the pills came in.....these were bags that held 10,000 pills. I bought approx. 500g of this powder. I remember weighing a blue loveheart and the total weight of the pill was about 150mg so I could tell what I was taking by weighing out in multiples of 150mg and because of tolerance ended up taking approx 450mg at a time (a full cold flu capsule) so when I done my test a year or so ago I just took a capsule full again.

To the person who asked....yes I do indeed have some of this powder left but who would analyse it?

 

[rainey]

What's the last time you had magic? Was it pill or crystal? US/Canadian or European? Anything you noted about it that's different from today's Dutch pills (smell, appearance and so on)?

Qdance gives authentic MDMA rolls to many users as WilsonWilson just reported here. But it does not work for others like Rainey.
So we need some explanation that fits both of these experiences without rejecting either one

That is why I asked Wilson Wilson if he/she ever had pre 2009 E.......all of these people who say qdance gives them full experience are mainly all younger people who have never had old skool experience so they "think" they are getting the full effect simply because they are strongly drugged. They don't know what old E was actually like and if they did I wonder what they would say then? Probably it would begin with "WHAT_THE_F...."

They have nothing to compare with what they are on!

WW said "no" by the way.....they did use the phrase about "running hand through hair" but was that the same as old skool "running hand through hair" lol

Maybe it is maybe you are correct it's all subjective I suppose but I, and many like me, feel that there are just too many differences which have nothing to do with loss of magic or burnt out receptors etc....remember this......how many of these people who report full scale E effects are people who have a vested interest in keeping the e market going? Dealers, friends of dealers, etc etc

 

[mars2025]

To the person who asked....yes I do indeed have some of this powder left but who would analyse it?

You can mail it to Energy Control in Spain. They would only need 50mg. Indigo was the person who asked. She has worked with them a lot as she reported here. She can provide all the details.
Seems like it takes a bit of elbow grease to get the right data out of them

Perhaps send it to them saying you think it's MDxx (don't tell them it's MDMA) and ask for purity and breakdown of exactly which MDxx spectra they see in the GC/MS chart. But it's pricey, like 100 GBP.
And you'd probably need another analysis of the powder from a qdance pill to do a side by side. So that's another 100

And thank you for the answers!

Re WilsonWilson's and similar experiences, I'm still hoping we find an explanation that does not rely on our saying that someone is not really rolling when they say they are. Like accept everyone's experience as real and try to find an explanation that fits all the data

 

[indigoaura]

I would get the urge to empty my bowels after 25-30 mins after dropping

Yes! The classic "disco dump." This was so much of a thing for me that it became difficult to take E at a concert, because if I wanted to come up as the band started I would also need to rush to the toilet at the same time.

To the person who asked....yes I do indeed have some of this powder left but who would analyse it?

I have an open communication line with a testing company. I may be able to get you a code to use to associate your product with our project and get access to some more advanced reports. I don't think you would need to send much, maybe 50 mg. Would you PM me?

 

[rainey]

EC wouldn't do the kind of analysis we need they would simply say it was mdma in the same way they will say qdance is mdma etc etc

It would need a chemist who would be able to break it down into being able to tell what precursers were used on each sample etc

There are people on BL who can do this but I don't know any of them lol

 

[rainey]

Yes! The classic "disco dump." This was so much of a thing for me that it became difficult to take E at a concert, because if I wanted to come up as the band started I would also need to rush to the toilet at the same time.


I have an open communication line with Drugs Data (ecstasydata.org). I may be able to get you a code to use to associate your product with our project and get access to some more advanced reports. I don't think you would need to send much, maybe 50 mg. Would you PM me?

Is "starting a conversation" the new PM? If so I have done so!

 

[mars2025]

@ThreePointCircle
There seems to be decent consensus on what is magic. There are some variations but OP pretty much summed it up and Indigo provided summaries as well. There are also academic papers going back to the 80s. Off the top of my head, I'd say magic is:

euphoria (this is the happiest moment of my life)
body high ( As I'm dancing I feel like I'm 18 again, physically and mentally. like a child )
emphatic (I love everyone and empathize with them, feel like I'm in their shoes)
endactic (everything is all right in my life and I accept and I'm at peace with whatever isn't),
tactile enhancement (simple finger touch feels better than sex),
music enhancement (omg Tiesto is Mozart
reduced desire and ability to do mental work (next day)
relaxation of ocd (obsessive compulsive disorder -- you know it when it happens but only if you had it in the first place)

Just of the top of my head

There seems less uniformity on what is meh, except that it's not magic, and it is worse.
Makes me think of Tolstoy where happy families are all alike but each unhappy one is unhappy in its own way

@popsweat
Yes, many popular presses are faked eventually. But Simosom and Rainey each report trying so many. They can't all be fake

 

[indigoaura]

You can mail it to Energy Control in Spain. They would only need 50mg. Indigo was the person who asked. She has worked with them a lot as she reported here. She can provide all the details.
Seems like it takes a bit of elbow grease to get the right data out of them

Perhaps send it to them saying you think it's MDxx (don't tell them it's MDMA) and ask for purity and breakdown of exactly which MDxx spectra they see in the GC/MS chart. But it's pricey, like 100 GBP.
And you'd probably need another analysis of the powder from a qdance pill to do a side by side. So that's another 100

And thank you for the answers!

Re WilsonWilson's and similar experiences, I'm still hoping we find an explanation that does not rely on our saying that someone is not really rolling when they say they are. Like accept everyone's experience as real and try to find an explanation that fits all the data

Energy Control completely botched the last sample I sent. It is 6 MONTHS later and I still have not received the report I paid for. Their analysis was basically shit. I do not recommend. Drugs Data is the company who has been in open communication, they are well informed of our theories, and they are actively looking into it on their end.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

There seems to be decent consensus on what is magic. There are some variations but OP pretty much summed it up and Indigo provided summaries as well. There are also academic papers going back to the 80s. Off the top of my head, I'd say magic is:

Sorry, not explaining myself well (bit drunk lol). I mean I'm seeing a lot of people say things like - oh yeah - q-dance is the shit, but not in a way that's convincing me they have had the experience of meh vs magic. In other words, with all due respect, I'm feeling like a lot of the recommendations are of varying levels of intense meh.

 

[mars2025]

Energy Control completely botched the last sample I sent. It is 6 MONTHS later and I still have not received the report I paid for. Their analysis was basically shit. I do not recommend. Drugs Data is the company who has been in open communication, they are well informed of our theories, and they are actively looking into it on their end.

Yes, DD (formerly Ecstasy Data) is the best in the US. But if you're shipping from EU, is there a risk of US customs seizing your/our precious sample?

Dutch and Swiss labs (saferparty.ch and Jellinek) will do the analysis for a few euros but it's for locals only. If you're ever in Zurich or Amsterdam you can drop it off.
UK may have some decent and inexpensive testing too.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

We've got Wedinos but I think they're just as 'if it looks like a drug we'll say 80% mdma' as the others

 

[indigoaura]

@mars2025 Check your messages! :D

Most of the companies will not let you see the full reports, and that is what we need to look at. Not enough for them to just relay the purity, we need to see what else is showing up besides the MDMA, the stuff that is probably being dismissed as noise or as synth byproduct.

 

[CfZrx]

---

NOTE: A handy draft summary (work-in-progress) of some of the key content covered in this thread can be accessed ⫸HERE⫷

---

Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is an extremely fine bleach white crystalline powder that is fluffy and lays just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will literally melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. All you want to do is touch and feel on the person youre with and tell them how beautiful they are and how much you love them etc. There are massive eye wiggles and conversation flows like new born buddas. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to modern day MDMA. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. I had both of these pills tested on ecstasydata and both came back as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. The high from these pills seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. There was no next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day. There is a HUGE giveaway that youre doing todays crappy MDMA. Your pupils will not dialate all the way to the very edge like old school ecstasy. With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge. With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dialate to slightly beyond normal if at all. Thats a big giveaway youre doing new school MDMA junk.

Before you jump to the assumption that this Le Junk guy is just old, hes done way to much ecstasy over the course of his lifetime and this is just a matter of tolerance, please re-read my post stating that I still have access to old school MDMA that Ive had since the 1980s. So in one hand I have modern day lab tested MDMA crap and in the other hand, old school MDMA heaven. So tolerance is out the window. Moving forward...

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's just a sub-par, little euphoria, no real love or empathy, fucked up kinda buzz. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!

Hey LJ,
just wanted to add my experience (pun intended). I took Ecstasy in about 1997 and it came on thick paper the guy called "wafers" I think. It was awesome with hallucinations when I would drift off into a "nod" I guess you could calll it while watching a rapper. I saw myself sitting in a field of high grass with floating clocks. Later a bag of weed that i set on the table caught fire from a candle, melting the plastic around the buds. Next day I found the bag in my pocket. It was all a dream,lol. Same high you described overall though, the love for others etc...