What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Negi]

Keep in mind there are fake copies of qdance presses out so could be likely undesired effects are pressed with meh mdma

Has someone managed to fake bilayer pills? It's interesting, I checked ecstasydata and found that for skypes at least, there was a recent 2019 batch that was only ~120-160mg of MDMA: https://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=skype

I wonder if the difference between meh and magic Qdances noticed in the thread was people getting ~250mg in a pill and ~130mg in a pill. If you are taking halves (recommended for pills of this strength) it would certainly make a difference.

This is why I like powder rather than pills.

 

[popsweat]

Has someone managed to fake bilayer pills? It's interesting, I checked ecstasydata and found that for skypes at least, there was a recent 2019 batch that was only ~120-160mg of MDMA: https://www.ecstasydata.org/results.php?start=0&search_field=all&s=skype

I wonder if the difference between meh and magic Qdances noticed in the thread was people getting ~250mg in a pill and ~130mg in a pill. If you are taking halves (recommended for pills of this strength) it would certainly make a difference.

This is why I like powder rather than pills.

Duo presses have been recently been able to be copied.Thats why you are seeing 2-3 year old stamps in current circulation along with their newer ones too. Q dance have said they are releasing new pills this summer that won’t be able to be copied but no details yet

 

[indigoaura]

Yes, DD (formerly Ecstasy Data) is the best in the US. But if you're shipping from EU, is there a risk of US customs seizing your/our precious sample?

I suppose so, but I sent mine to International Energy Control in Spain with no issue.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Keep in mind there are fake copies of qdance presses out so could be likely undesired effects are pressed with meh mdma

Yep there are so many fakes of any popular press, Q-Dance is the biggest presser so they're the biggest target for fakes.

This is actually why they started making two tone pills. It's more difficult to fake those without it being obvious.

That is why I asked Wilson Wilson if he/she ever had pre 2009 E.......all of these people who say qdance gives them full experience are mainly all younger people who have never had old skool experience so they "think" they are getting the full effect simply because they are strongly drugged. They don't know what old E was actually like and if they did I wonder what they would say then? Probably it would begin with "WHAT_THE_F...."

I am curious what exactly it is you think I am missing that I would be getting from this pre-2009 super magic MDMA?

I described one of my good rolls in some detail and was told my experience sounds exactly like the good stuff should. If you disagree, can you explain why? I am honestly curious exactly what it is you believe I am missing.

I have had meh MDMA before, I know it when I take it because it barely lasts a couple hours and feels more like a shitty underwhelming stim than actual MDMA. Even though I could send it to WEDINOS and it would come back as MDMA. So I am willing to believe there are good and bad synths.

What I have a hard time believing is that the only good MDMA existed before 2009 and everything made since is shit and anyone who disagrees has just never tried good MDMA.

Aside from just larking about with mates I also have had some legit life changing rolls. This is the MDMA forum so I can go into some detail if you want. I have autism and I genuinely believe MDMA is a therapeutic experience for me. It allows me to socialise and connect with people. I can experience and express deep feelings I never can normally. I can express love I always feel for my girlfriend but cannot usually show. I've taken half a pill each with her and had amazing times together.

These things to me all feel very magic.

It's not the same as just feeling "strongly drugged" at all. I have done oxy and I know what just being drugged out is like, MDMA is the total opposite of that.

 

[user666]

Yes! The classic "disco dump." This was so much of a thing for me that it became difficult to take E at a concert, because if I wanted to come up as the band started I would also need to rush to the toilet at the same time.

Did you need to rush to the toilet only to poop or also to pee ?

I know that talking about such things should be reserved to the kindergarten, but I can't help to notice that if the Meh MDMA is associated with:
- the lack of pupil dilation and tearing
- no urge to poop with a full colon
- no water retention, urinating easily.
- weak increase in heart rate and blood pressure

Then this set of symptoms points to a low Norepinephrine level ( or some norepinephrine Antagonist ).

Please read the Wikipedia article on Norepinephrine - it states that:

Norepinephrine increases heart rate and blood pressure, triggers the release of glucose from energy stores, increases blood flow to skeletal muscle, reduces blood flow to the gastrointestinal system, and inhibits voiding of the bladder and gastrointestinal motility.

The sudden inhibition of Gastrointestinal Motility is known to decrease the intestinal muscle tone and water absorption and consequently can cause such "dumping"..

So what good is this observation?
IMO it might be useful as a reliable and objective "in vivo" test for Meh MDMA, because Norepinephrine in the blood is easy to test for (much easier than for Oxytocin). Also, I can't help but notice, that Norepinephrine is very similar to 3,4-MDMA chemically.

There could be two gotchas with this test, though:
1) The Norepinephrine in the serum (blood) is not the same as Norepinephrine in the brain (but it crosses the BBB easily)
2) A norepinephrine Antagonist might not lower norepinephrine's level in the blood, but it will prevent the binding of Norepinephrine to its receptors.

These confounders can be gotten around with indirect testing for known effects of noradrenaline in the blood, such as: increasing glucose level (while fasting), sodium retention and maybe heart rate/BP.


Note:
There are some common genetic mutations, which alter the response to noradrenaline. These mutants are confounders, too, but the majority of the population will have the classical response to noradreanline, e.g. pupil dilation.

 

[indigoaura]

@Wilson Wilson I think the simplest explanation of how you are getting magic from Q-Dance pills and other people are not is that there are fake pills in the market, or even, that Q-Dance sends certain regions different product than other regions. They may even have satellite locations prepping/pressing pills with different methodologies.

@user666 You make some excellent points, and you have defined something I have been trying to wrap my head around for some time. The Pifl article ( https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1124/jpet.105.084426 ) specifically talks about serotonin and norepinephrine uptake, and how some byproducts inhibit one or the other. Read the bottom of page 349 through 350.

While I don't necessarily think that compounds we are dealing with are exactly the same as the specific impurities listed in the article, I do think something similar is going on. I also think this is why the meh experiences are slightly different from each other - there is variation in the ratio of impurities. At this point, I am pretty convinced that the impurities are flying under the radar of testing companies and just being dismissed as insignificant synthesis byproducts that do not need to be listed in the results.

@draculic acid69 I almost always lost the ability to urinate at the end of a good roll with MDMA, especially if I overdid it a little. It has happened to me sometimes with Meh, but not usually.

 

[user666]

This also means, that if you test you blood with a diabetic Glucometer after taking 80-100mg MDMA on an empty stomach (while fasting for 6h) , you should see the glucose level go up for 2h after dosing with the Magic MDMA but not with Meh MDMA.
This data point should behave the same way as pupil dilation.

Also, fasting for 6h and drinking salty water 1h before MDMA administration and only a moderate amount (800cc) of clean water 2-3h after the administration, should give you some additional data points on the sodium clearance from your blood, but that would require having your blood tested at a clinic/lab/hospital unless you spend $350 on a sodium ion meter and draw your own blood.

 

[user666]

The Pifl article ( https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1124/jpet.105.084426 ) specifically talks about serotonin and norepinephrine uptake, and how some byproducts inhibit one or the other. Read the bottom of page 349 through 350.

I read it. This is the mechanism I also suspect.

While I don't necessarily think that compounds we are dealing with are exactly the same

Neither do I, but compound #13 looks like an MDMA dimer with one extra oxygen. I think someone has already brought up an MDMA dimer in this thread.

At this point, I am pretty convinced that the impurities are flying under the radar of testing companies and just being dismissed as insignificant synthesis byproducts that do not need to be listed in the results.

All the more reason for a preparative column chromatography to be done on a large Meh sample, the MDMA salt discarded and the remaining impurities sent for some serious spectrographic testing.

 

[mars2025]

Any difference in onset times? Like 15 minutes, 45 minutes and so on

Now you ask that YES......old pills were always 40-45min mark and with qdance its more 75-90 mins

OP also noted that magic hits faster (15 min vs 45 min in his case). What's also interesting is that OP's magic was ultra pure snow-white powder. But your and Indigo's magic are simply earlier generation street pills. No reason to believe that old pills were more pure than today's q-dance. My initial guess was that magic simply correlates with purity but apparently that's not it unless maybe you get MAPS labgrade

Last question: did you ever try bumping qdance crystal (snorting lines of crushed crystal)? Is the onset time faster or still 75-90 min? I think bumping would get around variability due to digestion enzymes and all that

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

Yep there are so many fakes of any popular press, Q-Dance is the biggest presser so they're the biggest target for fakes.

This is actually why they started making two tone pills. It's more difficult to fake those without it being obvious.



I am curious what exactly it is you think I am missing that I would be getting from this pre-2009 super magic MDMA?

I described one of my good rolls in some detail and was told my experience sounds exactly like the good stuff should. If you disagree, can you explain why? I am honestly curious exactly what it is you believe I am missing.

I have had meh MDMA before, I know it when I take it because it barely lasts a couple hours and feels more like a shitty underwhelming stim than actual MDMA. Even though I could send it to WEDINOS and it would come back as MDMA. So I am willing to believe there are good and bad synths.

What I have a hard time believing is that the only good MDMA existed before 2009 and everything made since is shit and anyone who disagrees has just never tried good MDMA.

Aside from just larking about with mates I also have had some legit life changing rolls. This is the MDMA forum so I can go into some detail if you want. I have autism and I genuinely believe MDMA is a therapeutic experience for me. It allows me to socialise and connect with people. I can experience and express deep feelings I never can normally. I can express love I always feel for my girlfriend but cannot usually show. I've taken half a pill each with her and had amazing times together.

These things to me all feel very magic.

It's not the same as just feeling "strongly drugged" at all. I have done oxy and I know what just being drugged out is like, MDMA is the total opposite of that.

Now I ain't the book-smartest man in the world but I come from the 'deep south' where moonshine is still absolutely a thing and I've noticed some batches just have a level of quality and "shine" (lol) to them, that others do not.

Both in terms of a cleaner bodily feeling as well as the nature of the intoxication itself. Most comercial alcohol completely lacks this magic altogether. Something more alchemical and generally energetically influenced than simply containing ethanol, this moonshine "has it". Really only good moonshine, certain craft/traditional European beers, and really well made wine give me this superior feeling. Bud Light or a bottle of Jack Daniels just makes you feel fucked up, it does not have the transcendent, almost out of body vibes and intense life affirming warmth "REAL" booze does.

Cannabis is the same, certain batches just have a level of love and quality instilled in them by an expert who loves their craft. Bulk cash crop/tumbled corporate weed fuckin sucks comparatively speaking

Same reason some dishes of food just taste better than others: The chef is better, and did it with love. If you are painting by the numbers and in it for the money, your art/food/drugs/ will be lacking. Reality isn't entirely understood, sorry to sound like a hippie but this IS a drug forum.

So I don't really see why some MDMA wouldn't be better than other MDMA even if they're both the same from a molecular standpoint. And I'm sure there's more logical reasons that batch variation would qualitatively change the experience of the compound when ingested.

 

[user666]

So I don't really see why some MDMA wouldn't be better than other MDMA even if they're both the same from a molecular standpoint.

I do.
The same test result does not mean the same molecule. Especially when the test is a rushed slipshod job without any prior chromatographic separation.
IOW: Just because it cannot be seen with "dirty glasses", doesn't mean its not there.

 

[user666]

Oh!, so quartz chromatography columns are a thing which aid in visualization of UV activated fluorescent silica. See here.

 

[indigoaura]

This also means, that if you test you blood with a diabetic Glucometer after taking 80-100mg MDMA on an empty stomach (while fasting for 6h) , you should see the glucose level go up for 2h after dosing with the Magic MDMA but not with Meh MDMA.
This data point should behave the same way as pupil dilation.

@user666 I got this man. I will order a freaking Glucometer and start getting this information pronto.

As for the quartz column...over $1,000 is definitely a pretty big investment for just the column itself. As soon as I have a better idea of what I need to order, I will start ordering stuff, but really hoping to not have to spend that much $ on this endeavor.

 

[indigoaura]

No reason to believe that old pills were more pure than today's q-dance.

Not quite sure what you mean here when you use the word "purity." Are you talking about the presence of contaminants or are you talking about dosage?

There are actually a lot of reasons to think that old pills and modern pills may be different from each other, due to the significant changes in how they are being produced. I could direct you to many links for pills I personally sent into Ecstasy Data, and I am sure you could show me links to Q-Dance pills, and they would all say "MDMA."

Magic is not determined by dosage, as many people in this thread will attest. Taking more does not equal more magic, just more meh.

 

[indigoaura]

As for bumping...

Nobody should have to bump MDMA to get magic. I never bumped MDMA previously to get a fast comeup and an awesome vibe. Why should I have to bump it now?

 

[user666]

As for the quartz column...over $1,000 is definitely a pretty big investment for just the column itself.

Yes, it is but this is only because we are noobs who cannot do column chromatography without visual feedback (i.e. blindly).
Maybe normal lab glass will work if it is illuminated with a very strong UV source that will "punch" through that glass and get to the fluorescent silica anyway. Does the normal glass block 100% of UV or just 99% of it?
That remaining 1% UV might get converted to visible light by the fluorescence and be seen with a naked eye, after all. We really need an advice of someone who has hands on experience with this.

Also, I did not shop around - this was the first quartz column, that popped up. Maybe something cheaper can be improvised out of a quartz tube like this or out of a broken bactericidal UV tube.
First, I need to find a cheap source of fluorescent silica powder, to learn the required wavelength of the UV.

Here is a relevant discussion.

 

[indigoaura]

Yes, it is but this is only because we are noobs who cannot do column chromatography without visual feedback (i.e. blindly).
Maybe normal lab glass will work if it is illuminated with a very strong UV source that will "punch" through that glass and get to the fluorescent silica anyway. Does the normal glass block 100% of UV or just 99% of it?
That remaining 1% UV might get converted to visible light by the fluorescence and be seen with a naked eye, after all. We really need an advice of someone who has hands on experience with this.

Also, I did not shop around - this was the first quartz column, that popped up. Maybe something cheaper can be improvised out of a quartz tube like this or out of a broken bactericidal UV fluorescent tube.
First, I need to find a cheap source of fluorescent silica powder, to learn the required wavelength of the UV.

Here is a relevant discussion.

If a quartz column eliminates the need for a UV light, then I could see the $1,000 investment in the column, but right now, I just have way too many questions about the process. I still don't know what type of solvent to purchase, for example. It is one thing to risk $250 and then find out the process does not work, but spending $1,500 and finding out the process does not work is just a different ballgame.

 

[mars2025]

Not quite sure what you mean here when you use the word "purity." Are you talking about the presence of contaminants or are you talking about dosage?

I was thinking in terms of the purity of the synthesized MDMA crystal before it's pressed into the pill. So, yes, presence of contaminants not dosage.

My reasoning was that at 99.9% MDMA is MDMA, has to be... Shulgin mentions six synthesis routes in his MDMA paper including the two in PIKHAL. He doesn't ever say that some particular route leads to some MDMA "flavour" that produces a superior roll.

So I initially assumed that to get magic you should simply try to get close to 99.9% pure MDMA crystal (OP's original magic powder seems to be like that).

And in the post you quoted I was adjusting that initial assumption of mine since both Rainey and you observed both magic and meh from street pills

Nobody should have to bump MDMA to get magic. I never bumped MDMA previously to get a fast comeup and an awesome vibe. Why should I have to bump it now?

That question was for Rainey whose answers so far have proved very insightful. I'm glad I didn't miss his/her post and followed up with questions. It wasn't to suggest that Rainey should or needs to try bumping dutch crystal. But if Rainey happened to try it already, then his/her experience could provide further insight and data for this thread. I don't have any pre-formed notion of what Rainey's answer here might be

 

[indigoaura]

@mars2025 I don't think you are necessarily wrong about purity. MDMA that is 99.9% pure would not have any contaminants to compete. If the problem is a contaminant, then that should fix the problem.

As discussed in the article I linked by Pifl, many synthesis impurities are relatively benign. At least, they have no impact on the transporters. Out of all the byproducts they examined in that article, they really only saw two contaminants with a notable effect. Many other articles point out that different synth methods produce different contaminants. So, its not that the old pills were more pure, they just had different synthesis byproducts present. In other words, not all 80% MDMA is created equal.

 

[user666]

If a quartz column eliminates the need for a UV light,

It doesn't. A UV light is still needed if you use a fluorescent silica. The fluorescence converts the UV into a visible light that you can observe with your eyes. The visible light doesn't have a problem penetrating the normal glass, but the UV does. I am guessing that the attenuation is not 100% and some UV still gets through.
It is just that a quartz column is so transparent to UV that it eliminates the need for a strong UV light source to "punch through" and even a weak one e.g. a UV LED, becomes sufficient for illuminating the fluorescent silica in the column.

According to Sekio, the non-colored MDMA salt and other impurities quench the fluorescence, which makes them observable. There are other methods of making them observable, e.g. "staining" with iodine or permanganate (and many more) but that can be done only outside of the column.
For visualization of non-colored compounds moving inside the column, the UV fluorescence is the only feasible method, AFAIK.