Mental Health Bipolar, Mania and Stimulants - chickens and eggs

[Jabberwocky]

I know there is a connection between being bi-polar (and ADHD) and taking drugs, however I've been thinking a bit about causality as in whether bi-polar or drug episodes come first in my life.

I have been working on the assumption that when I cycle into a manic episode one of my act outs is taking lots of IV stimulants. Sometimes it is years between these episodes. However, maybe I am confused and taking the drugs for whatever other reason actually triggers my mania and all the other act outs I demonstrate in that phase. I do know that if I can keep of the stims for a couple of weeks and take my medications as prescribed then my mania disipates and I cycle back to "normal" - which is very chill. At the moment I am several months into a manic episode but just saw my psychiatrist and got increased dose of meds to even me out which I hope will happen over next month.

Anybody else grappling with this intersection of bi-polar, mania and stims (or perhaps some other drugs).

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's almost impossible to diagnose Bipolar Disorder during drug use.

If you already have been diagnosed with it sober, and you're using, it can greatly exacerbate the symptoms. I don't recommend using drugs at all with mental illness outside of prescribed psychotropics, BUT while been stable, on a mood stabilizer and antipsychotics, meth has never trigger an episode for me even after staying up 4 days in a row. I always take my meds.

Substance abuse disorder is the most common comorbid disorder with BP. We want to mimic mania. Well, the euphoria of it at least.

Also, people use drugs to self medicate.

Are you on any prescription medications?

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's almost impossible to diagnose Bipolar Disorder during drug use.

If you already have been diagnosed with it sober, and you're using, it can greatly exacerbate the symptoms. I don't recommend using drugs at all with mental illness outside of prescribed psychotropics, BUT while been stable, on a mood stabilizer and antipsychotics, meth has never trigger an episode for me even after staying up 4 days in a row. I always take my meds.

Substance abuse disorder is the most common comorbid disorder with BP. We want to mimic mania. Well, the euphoria of it at least.

Are you on any prescription medications?

Hey @madness00, thanks for replying - its nice to meet a fellow traveller. I am prescribed Abilify, d-amphetamine, clonidine and valium. However, when I go manic I stop taking the d-amp (because meth). In my current episode it seems I went manic after ceasing the abilify for a couple of months (even though I tapered off it). I think my mania loves drugs - and especially IV stims since I had previously gone 4 years totally clean from meth and coke with little difficulty.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah, I'd go crazy with drugs both manic and depressed. I didn't get into meth until after I had a year of stability so from my experience I can only say I crave drugs in both the highs and lows. I IVed my Wellbutrin and drank energy drinks (like 5 a day) manic and drank a lot and smoked a lot of weed depressed.

Be good to yourself. Stability is underrated. And if you must take illegal drugs, at least get stable first and then take it slow. Don't just take two doses of abilify then slam an eightball.

 

[X11400]

It's almost impossible to diagnose Bipolar Disorder during drug use.

If you already have been diagnosed with it sober, and you're using, it can greatly exacerbate the symptoms. I don't recommend using drugs at all with mental illness outside of prescribed psychotropics, BUT while been stable, on a mood stabilizer and antipsychotics, meth has never trigger an episode for me even after staying up 4 days in a row. I always take my meds.

Substance abuse disorder is the most common comorbid disorder with BP. We want to mimic mania. Well, the euphoria of it at least.

Also, people use drugs to self medicate.

Are you on any prescription medications?

Do you feel like a god even on the antipsychotics?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Stability is underrated.

This X10

If I were you, OP, I'd ask about lowering valium and amphetamine at the same time, as they kind of work against each other. Also amphetamine and abilify (depending if you take 10mg or more of abilify), as they also work partly opposite each other.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This X10

If I were you, OP, I'd ask about lowering valium and amphetamine at the same time, as they kind of work against each other. Also amphetamine and abilify (depending if you take 10mg or more of abilify), as they also work partly opposite each other.

Yes. I noticed that going up to 20 mg Abilify basically killed all effects from meth except maybe still allowing it to keep me awake. I only take Valium occasionally preferring to save it up for when sleep is really problematic. That said, I just discovered Etizolam which is abundant and goes down real smooth anytime. I could not lower prescribed ampphetamine use as I’d then never get any work done!

 

[X11400]

Yes. I noticed that going up to 20 mg Abilify basically killed all effects from meth except maybe still allowing it to keep me awake. I only take Valium occasionally preferring to save it up for when sleep is really problematic. That said, I just discovered Etizolam which is abundant and goes down real smooth anytime. I could not lower prescribed ampphetamine use as I’d then never get any work done!

That’s kind of interesting considering that a large portion neuroleptics block monoaminergic stimulation. I wonder why you still got the insomniac effects of meth considering you were on Aripiprazole.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That’s kind of interesting considering that a large portion neuroleptics block monoaminergic stimulation. I wonder why you still got the insomniac effects of meth considering you were on Aripiprazole.

It kept me awake like normal daytime wakefulness not normal meth level tweaking altertness. On the abilify + meth I could probably have slept without seroquel or benzos but I'm in the habit of taking them after every 24 hours of meth use because I reckon they are aids against neurotoxicity.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

It kept me awake like normal daytime wakefulness not normal meth level tweaking altertness. On the abilify + meth I could probably have slept without seroquel or benzos but I'm in the habit of taking them after every 24 hours of meth use because I reckon they are aids against neurotoxicity.

Why do you think this? Do you have a source? Because it's not nearly so simple as you might be saying. Psychopharmacology and neuroscience are booming fields, but there is just too little knowledge now, especially for laymen, to come to that conlcusion because one's an agonist and the other a partial. For starters, they have varied effects on other nuerotransmitter systems, too, not just dopamine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Why do you think this? Do you have a source? Because it's not nearly so simple as you might be saying. Psychopharmacology and neuroscience are booming fields, but there is just too little knowledge now, especially for laymen, to come to that conlcusion because one's an agonist and the other a partial. For starters, they have varied effects on other nuerotransmitter systems, too, not just dopamine.

I'm sure its not so simple. However, I have had long periods of meth use with attendant seroquel and without and I definitely recovered faster when using seroquel. Now, there is also some evidence from rats that seroquel reduces neurotoxicity from amphetamines. This is about the same level of scientific evidence on which people base their use on things like 5-HTP and other supplements! I'd be interested in your comments on these articles, especially the first one which is specific to meth

Neuroprotective effect of atypical antipsychotics in cognitive and non-cognitive behavioral impairment in animal models - PMC

Antipsychotic drugs are divided into two groups: typical and atypical. Recent clinical studies show atypical antipsychotics have advantages over typical antipsychotics in a wide variety of neuropsychiatric conditions, in terms of greater efficacy ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Chronic administration of quetiapine alleviates the anxiety-like behavioural changes induced by a neurotoxic regimen of dl-amphetamine in rats

We have demonstrated that the atypical antipsychotic drugs prevent cell death in PC12 cells induced by various cytotoxins and have protective effects …

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

There's a bias there. A cross sectional study isn't very rigorous, and this is just a case study otherwise. So we definitely can't generalize your conclusion (if it even holds with you).

Aight, I'll look into it a bit.

First thing is that it talks about dl-amp, not methamp. The recommended maximum dosage of adderall (75% dextro and 25% levo) is 60mg, with people going way over in some cases in the states--think 100's of mg's. But that of pharmaceutical meth is 25mg. In no case do I know of an instance of contemporary practice using methamp, period, regardless of the dose. But I do strongly guess that no one goes over that 25mg.

So it's talking about rats, too. Primate studies are definitely called for. Even then, we don't know what a substance will do until we introduce it to a human.

In the study, they give it a good two weeks plus before they give them this amp mixture.

So yeah they're just talking about anxiety. That's no promise of attenuating toxicity.