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Do you think you reach a point of drug use where no substances are enjoyable anymore?

It's very common. It can be scientifically explained through down regulation of neurons, I think. But let's see, you can feel the ''euphoria'' that you feel when you drink a Burn or the energy that coffeine itself gives you. You may not feel cocaine/meth/MDMA but a 3g joint can fuck you up, why? I don't know. It may be linked to a condition of yours, ADD/ADHD. If you would be burnt from MDMA, you will not feel MDMA anymore but your dopamine/serotonine/neurons will recover so they will not colapse forever. Maybe you are a control freak and you have a fast metabolism. Maybe you have a ''mutant dopamine'' receptor, I don't know, I can only guess.
 
Life is about more than just hedonism and pleasures

With drug use less is more for long term sustainability. Many substances are questionable in purity and many people do not observe harm reduction practices.
 
I was very disappointed when I did opiates again after many years of been cleaning. I was taking them for some dental work and a crown over a tooth they had to basically grind down and build up. They helped a bit with the pain, but I did not understand why I used to obsess over the feeling it was giving me. Just thankful tolerance has gone down enough over 7 years that I can use them for pain like that. Now had I gotten some old school OCs or dope things my be different, but its all good. I have no place seeking it these days, and my subconscious knows that by not enjoying thinking about it. I don't reminisce, I remember.

Alcohol too. I really liked to drink, and really want to get smashed with my brother n homies like I used to, but I just get meh. lol. It does suck.

I often hear of ex addicts that go on to be crazy workout addicts, or sex addicts.

Its the loss of novelty, where the amount of novelty to a substance goes down per individual experience, where one day they have inversed, and the novelty of sobriety is more inviting.
 
negrogesic said:
Yeah but how much hard liquor and how often? Don't you have to drink all day long for that to happened (as opposed to say, only at night)?
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started with a fifth a night about four months. wake up shaking. opies would fix it at first but not for long. then it turned into all day every day to stop the shaking. in the end was killing at least a half gallon of anything 80 proof a day. dt's were near fatal with medical treatment.
 
ghostandthedarknes said:
started with a fifth a night about four months. wake up shaking. opies would fix it at first but not for long. then it turned into all day every day to stop the shaking. in the end was killing at least a half gallon of anything 80 proof a day. dt's were near fatal with medical treatment.
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Dang a 5th (750ml) a night is quite a bit to begin with. I currently drink at very most perhaps half that and usually 1/4th that amount of alcohol (750ml x .40 = 300ml pure ethanol; I seem to drink perhaps the equivalent of, in wine or beer, perhaps 100ml of ethanol, so 1/3rd the amount, and only at night. This would be about 7 light beers or 1 bottle of wine. Havent noticed anything though i plan to discontinue (i dont enjoy alcohol a whole lot).
 
negrogesic said:
Dang a 5th (750ml) a night is quite a bit to begin with. I currently drink at very most perhaps half that and usually 1/4th that amount of alcohol (750ml x .40 = 300ml pure ethanol; I seem to drink perhaps the equivalent of, in wine or beer, perhaps 100ml of ethanol, so 1/3rd the amount, and only at night. This would be about 7 light beers or 1 bottle of wine. Havent noticed anything though i plan to discontinue (i dont enjoy alcohol a whole lot).
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your body will give you very clear signs when dependency is setting the hook. the shakes and nausea in the morning are unmistakable.
 
negrogesic said:
How much (and frequently) do you have to drink for dt's to become a risk, out of curiosity?
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I've never encountered DTs from alcohol even when drinking daily, but I have always only drank at night. Also generally beer, not liquor. My good friend drank literally every night (but never until night), at least 6 strong 7% beers or often more, for 12 years. He sudden;y was like fuck, I bet I will get DTs, so he stopped for a week and said that week was the best he'd felt in years. Alcohol is extremely damaging to the body and mind compared to most drugs, but one benefit is that, unless you've previous been dependent, it is quite forgiving in terms of physical addiction, if you make sure to spend a good part of each day not drunk. I think it also has something to do with genetics as well, some people are more susceptible than others, it seems.
 
Some years ago i was drinking about 180ml of gin everything night, worst of it being, all in one drink (consumed perhaps over the course of 30 minutes, mixed with soda water). Thats like drinking 8 beers in 30 minutes, which combined with all the stuff i was taking, would sometimes in a staggering drunk state, where I'd cook drunk, cut myself in the process, knock things over.

I did this for about 1.5 years, the all of a sudden decided to quit cold turkey. I had been smoking methamphetamine with a friend and all of a sudden had a realize: I need to stop drinking. I told my friend that I was quitting drinking that night, who of course didn't believe me having seen me get drunk every night. I stopped immediately however and expected alcohol withdrawal. There wasn't any noticeable physical withdrawal whatsoever. I didn't drink for 2 years after that.

I need to significantly reduce my drinking now, some of it is a boredom thing, or a something to do with my hands (ive switched to light beer recently).

It might actually be easier to drink not at all than to drink less, at least for me.
 
negrogesic said:
Some years ago i was drinking about 180ml of gin everything night, worst of it being, all in one drink (consumed perhaps over the course of 30 minutes, mixed with soda water). Thats like drinking 8 beers in 30 minutes, which combined with all the stuff i was taking, would sometimes in a staggering drunk state, where I'd cook drunk, cut myself in the process, knock things over.

I did this for about 1.5 years, the all of a sudden decided to quit cold turkey. I had been smoking methamphetamine with a friend and all of a sudden had a realize: I need to stop drinking. I told my friend that I was quitting drinking that night, who of course didn't believe me having seen me get drunk every night. I stopped immediately however and expected alcohol withdrawal. There wasn't any noticeable physical withdrawal whatsoever. I didn't drink for 2 years after that.

I need to significantly reduce my drinking now, some of it is a boredom thing, or a something to do with my hands (ive switched to light beer recently).

It might actually be easier to drink not at all than to drink less, at least for me.
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I know exactly what you mean. I've been drinking heavily since stopping heroin 10 years ago (classic substitution thing). My tolerance for alcohol is through the roof and I'm ashamed to say I can easily drink up to a litre of vodka daily. The thing is, I dont really like it, its just something to fill in the spaces between more enjoyable drugs. A couple of weeks ago, I was on my arse. No cash and no way of getting any. So I had to go without booze. I went 7 days with absolutely no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. In fact, I felt better than I would have done if I'd been drinking.

Unfortunately, I got paid and was able to obtain it again. But for me, it definitely seems to be more of a habit than a physical dependence. How is this possible? I fulfill all the criteria of an alcoholic but seem to suffer no withdrawal. Is it a case that the more psychologically addicted you are, the worse your physical withdrawal? And if you dont really like the shit that much, it doesn't get such a grip on you?
 
Adderall never stops feeling good to me. I assume it never will.

However, anything else sucks now and is a snoozefest. I also think the psychological aspect of "pleasure drugs" becomes boring once you're so adjusted to just sitting in a chair waiting for effects while staring at a screen.
 
Are you dependent on opioids?? When was the last time you let yourself go into withdrawal?? I also got so attenuated to heroin that it was no longer getting me high, but then when my money ran out and I had to go through a day of withdrawals and then would get truly, truly desperate by day 2 and find a way - any way - to score, then that shot would be the most satisfying, pleasurable experience. The shot that lifts you out of withdrawals is always, for me, incredible - going from feeling absolutely awful and then just experiencing that relief as it's all remedied in a few seconds was an immensely pleasurable experience, and the added contrast of going from bad withdrawals to well was a euphoric high all in itself. Does that not happen for you? I can understand if you use H every day, shooting up every morning before the withdrawal kicks in then it just becomes routine and tolerance stops you getting actually high, but I can't imagine getting no pleasure from a shot that takes you out of full-blown withdrawal.

Another much easier method that works for me is to go on a low dose of subutex for a little while - around a week. I go on 2mg of subutex and take no other drugs at all for that week. 2mg will leave me physically feeling OK without any withdrawal, but it will leave me with a brutal depression for a couple of days while I adjust to it. Usually after around a week on the 2mg I'll feel mentally much better, and get some energy and optimism again, and then if I use H on top of that then it's super euphoric and I'll be warm and nodding and feel awesome again. It will only work for 2 or 3 days before my tolerance ramps up again, but IMO it's certainly worth it since for those couple of days the heroin will feel amazing again. I'd recommend that - the first method of going to the 2nd day of withdrawals will probably be more effective, but withdrawal is fucking awful as you know and if it was me and I was trying to get high again but had access to heroin there's no way I could force myself to sit through 36 hours of withdrawal just so I enjoyed the shot, whereas the subutex method means that you circumvent any physical discomfort but just have to put up with depression for a few days, which isn't so bad - especially in comparison to withdrawals!

Failing that, as you know, the obvious answer is just to quit. The anhedonia will lift eventually if you get sober. It will get worse before it improves, but I personally would rather have intense anhedonia for a month before finally feeling better rather than mild to moderate anhedonia just forever. That sounds like an awful way to live. Also, aside from the drugs, whats your lifestyle like? I know it's a cliche, but diet & exercise for me has been the difference between living in a state of intense depression where I could hardly get out of bed and didn't even have the energy or the willpower/motivation to take drugs & feeling like a normal, optimistic, healthy person whilst totally sober. It's a cliche for a reason!
 
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