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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

C'mon dude, you know I don't have anything against anyone being whatever they want. But I'm not going to call someone some made up term just because they want me to. I wasn't aware trannies was derogatory either. So what am I supposed to call them?
 
nuttynutskin said:
I wasn't aware trannies was derogatory either. So what am I supposed to call them?
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I thought it was widely known that 'tranny' was a slur like 'n****r' or 'wet back' or 'breeder'. Would you call a Mexican a wet back to their face? Or a woman a breeder?

I believe the proper term for someone who identifies as a gender that isn't their born sex is simply transgender. It indicates identity without implying something degrading or pornographically related.
 
nuttynutskin said:
C'mon dude, you know I don't have anything against anyone being whatever they want.
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yeah I know, that's why it threw me off when you said trannies. I was just asking if you had a problem describing trans men as simply "men" and trans women as simply "women" ?

Its a genuine question. I'm honest enough to say my answer to that is yes but it makes me somewhat uncomfortable in some cases. For example , a trans woman who has lived 50 years as a man has not had to endure the societal pressure/inconvenience of people who were assigned female at birth. They've lived the majority of their lives as men with all the privilege that comes with.

not to say being a closeted trans individual doesn't come with its own challenges but they are not identical to those many women face...
 
It seems like a fad to most. There is a show about people who get the surgery then regret it.
I definitely don't agree with parents forcing hormones on their kids.
They want special treatment but equality. It is a mental disorder
 
Transgender isn't a mental disorder, or I guess it depends on how you define "disorder", either way it's not something you can change about a person, and calling it a disorder carries with it judgmental/negative connotations. There is a bit of a fad going on right now, I can say I've definitely noticed it. However there are also plenty of people who legitimately have always had gender identity issues, who now have the freedom to express and pursue that. Which I think is a beautiful thing. Society is transitioning (ha!) to a place where this concept is widely accepted, but there are growing pains that come with any change, namely, people who don't understand judging and fearing the very concept. I think the fad-like aspects of it in society will fade as it stops being the "new cutting-edge thing".
 
cduggles said:
To qualify as a psychological disorder, a condition has to cause distress or disability.

For many transgender individuals, a source of distress is often other people’s attitudes rather than their own condition.
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Often but not always? So sometimes the distress is caused by themselves?
so sometimes it’s a psychological disorder?
I’m confused.
 
Xorkoth said:
Transgender isn't a mental disorder, or I guess it depends on how you define "disorder", either way it's not something you can change about a person, and calling it a disorder carries with it judgmental/negative connotations. There is a bit of a fad going on right now, I can say I've definitely noticed it. However there are also plenty of people who legitimately have always had gender identity issues, who now have the freedom to express and pursue that. Which I think is a beautiful thing. Society is transitioning (ha!) to a place where this concept is widely accepted, but there are growing pains that come with any change, namely, people who don't understand judging and fearing the very concept. I think the fad-like aspects of it in society will fade as it stops being the "new cutting-edge thing".
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It doesnt matter how one defines it, once you are involved in the System. The DSMV ( aka the bible - that changes every other few years ) defines what diagnosis will determine the trajectory of your life course AS directed by the child/adolescent/adult and a Psychiatrist, Psychologist or an MDT. The two former categories as a determinant of this course are obviously disturbing. I tried to discuss this with one particular psychologist today and he told me, I was confusing labels with diagnosis and offered that I 'talk to a transgendered person'. When I explained that transgender adults are not a homogenous group and that the average human brain doesn't mature until approx 25 yrs ; he said that maybe, 'I was using the medical model/approach, as my perspective'. When I explained that a developmental approach by clinicians is feasible when taken into consideration with a holistic ( as in all the factors that influence an individuals life (social, psych, medical; many others) life-span and dynamic approach toward treating a developing adolescent, he said nothing and changed the subject.

( I brought up the issue of infertility, ethical considerations toward patients, etc etc, No response)

This is one psych, not all. I found this DEEPLY disturbing.
 
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I feel bad for TS/TG people both MTF and FTM. Even with anti-discrimination laws the trans people I have met have difficulty finding and keeping jobs and many, especially MTF have been or are prostitutes.





However I do not believe it is good to give hormones or life changing surgery to children or teens. The trans people I know all lived as both sexes for decades, had lots of therapy, and some have decided not to take hormones or have any surgery at all.
 
Asclepius said:
It doesnt matter how one defines it, once you are involved in the System. The DSMV ( aka the bible - that changes every other few years ) defines what diagnosis will determine the trajectory of your life course AS directed by the child/adolescent/adult and a Psychiatrist, Psychologist or an MDT. The two former categories as a determinant of this course are obviously disturbing. I tried to discuss this with one particular psychologist today and he told me, I was confusing labels with diagnosis and offered that I 'talk to a transgendered person'. When I explained that transgender adults are not a homogenous group and that the average human brain doesn't mature until approx 25 yrs ; he said that maybe, 'I was using the medical model/approach, as my perspective'. When I explained that a developmental approach by clinicians is feasible when taken into consideration with a holistic ( as in all the factors that influence an individuals life (social, psych, medical; many others) life-span and dynamic approach toward treating a developing adolescent, he said nothing and changed the subject.

( I brought up the issue of infertility, ethical considerations toward patients, etc etc, No response)

This is one psych, not all. I found this DEEPLY disturbing.
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Many psychologists, psychiatrists, and even medical doctors are extremely reluctant to discuss Transsexual/transgender people and gender/sex issues. They do not want to mistakenly say anything that could be taken or later claimed and twisted to be transphobic.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Interesting study has shown that [men and women have physically different brains] transgender people actually have the physical brain of the gender the identify as. From example a trans woman will often have a physically female brain.
This is also true, to a lesser extent, for homosexuals.
I can post a link if anyone is interested?
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I have actually been told the opposite by trans people. One said she has too much testosterone, has a male brain obviously, had medical tests done including brain scans, which confirmed this, and needed hormones to feel normal.

The whole theory that 'bisexual and gay men have a woman's brain or are somehow really feminine is based on outdated stereotypes and homophobia/biphobia.
 
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Besides. The brain is still something we really don't understand particularly well.

Labeling it "male brain" and "female brain" are probably gross oversimplifications.

Yes there are sexually dimorphic structures that have difference averages between the sexes. But tying them to sexual identify is probably a leap.

I say probably throughout this cause wtf do I know about the brain. :)
 
I don't believe all are doing it as a fad and I should have clarified that the people who are doing it as a fad are the ones with a mental disorder. I have several mtf friends who are more mentally sound than I am.
My trans friends and I all agree with the issue with parents giving kids hormones or hormone blockers. That's just wrong.
LGBTQ folk more accepted in Canada compared to the usa but people wanting special privileges shouldn't preach inclusion.
Tough topic all around, just wanted to clarify who i was speaking of with a mental disorder
 
Claims being made in this thread about Caster Semenya lack crucial context:

In April 2018, the IAAF announced new "differences of sex development" rules that required athletes with specific disorders of sex development, testosterone levels of 5 nmol/L and above, and certain androgen sensitivity to take medication to lower their testosterone levels, effective beginning 8 May 2019.[84][85][86][87] Due to the narrow scope of the changes, which also apply to only those athletes competing in the 400m, 800m, and 1500m, many people thought the rule change was designed specifically to target Semenya.
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There might be room for discussion on the effects of testosterone but anyone defending this action by IAAF is either mistaken or just silly.
 
So it's said that 90%+ of adolescents who identify as trans grow out of it and the suicide rate is 40% which is worryingly high.

(please don't ban me for posting this - it's a new article)

Florida House panel to debate bill criminalizing sex-change surgeries & puberty blockers for kids, as 5 other states consider bans
www.rt.com

Florida House panel to debate bill criminalizing sex-change surgeries & puberty blockers for kids, as 5 other states consider bans

A bill that could make it a felony to perform sex-change surgeries on minors, as well as inject them with drugs to delay puberty, is set to go before a Florida House subcommittee next week, as more states consider similar motions.
www.rt.com www.rt.com

A bill that could make it a felony to perform sex-change surgeries on minors, as well as inject them with drugs to delay puberty, is set to go before a Florida House subcommittee next week, as more states consider similar motions.

The ‘Vulnerable Child Protection Act’ will be on the agenda of the Florida House Quality subcommittee when it meets on Monday.

The bill is sponsored by Republican Rep. Anthony Sabatini, who has long opposed the practice that permits a doctor to treat underage patients suffering from ‘gender dysphoria’ with sex-change surgery and medicine that slows the onset of puberty, providing their parents approve the procedure.

“Common sense,” the lawmaker tweeted on Saturday, welcoming the news of his proposal moving forward.
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I'm sick of people justifying their assumptions using "common sense" as the shield. I've seen it used to justify so many frequently opposite positions.

I want data. Studies. I'm sick of people just deciding what they assume is the best course of action with no real evidence to support it and no care for the damage it may cause if their assumption is wrong.

These are people's lives you're fucking with. Don't assume shit.
 
JessFR said:
I'm sick of people justifying their assumptions using "common sense" as the shield. I've seen it used to justify so many frequently opposite positions.

I want data. Studies. I'm sick of people just deciding what they assume is the best course of action with no real evidence to support it and no care for the damage it may cause if their assumption is wrong.

These are people's lives you're fucking with. Don't assume shit.
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I dunno if there is a place for data that inevitably pigeonholeds people into treatments based on data from other individuals .

What is best for a person is basically up to that individual. Problem being that youngsters are reliant on parents and doctors , so I dunno hey.

I only know 2 and they both transitioned physically and came out as doing do as adults. Before that were pretty unhappy and didn't know exactly why.


If my child was giving signs of gender dysmorphia I honestly wouldn't know what to do except just let her be herself and thump any child or adult who bullied her.

Good to see grimez back, much love my brother <3
 
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