What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[epic11]

MDMA should NOT be recrystallized. It's not shards!!!!

Interesting, care to elaborate a tad further with why you popped in here to say that? Are you aware of some glaring thing we arent? Please help!

 

[epic11]

Got some serious Meh-DMA yesterday. The crystals were clear and looked exactly like the crystal methamphetamine I bought a few weeks before. Almost wished it was meth. Meth is many folds more magical and empathogenic than that Meh stuff that was ,at a staggerind dose of 300 mgs, just a weak, long drawn out empty shell of a distant memory of a roll. An experience so hollow and insipid I dont remember what I did while on it. I think I was just sitting on my bed staring at the wall for the entire night with a mind so blanc and empty I could have been in a coma and it would have been the same experience. No energy but also couldnt sleep. No real comedown ( i mean yo have to at least go up a bit to come down ). Just an annoying fever like body overheating feeling that almost remind me of the glorious piperazine years. Almost miss the meth-bombs of the early 2000,s. How spoiled were we to complain about some meth in our pills... But again, how could we even in our wildest dreams predict the twisted turn we find ourselves in right now that the actual real product is worse than the adulterated copy cats.

That sounds like meh for sure. lol

Just found some new product in a storm drain, damn im lucky. It smacked me in the face with a smell i hadnt smelled in a while. (Saffrole/black licorice clearly, easily stronger smell than most of the mass produced stuff ive been seeing recently) Its a little more tacky, Mostly whitish crystals with a yellowish tinge, and much LESS see-through as a lot of this meh shit tends to be. (Just observations, not saying opaque cant be good, as i know it can. Proved recently with that roll.) I have high hopes for this batch.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Mostly whitish crystals with a yellowish tinge, and much LESS see-through as a lot of this meh shit tends to be. (Just observations, not saying opaque cant be good, as i know it can. Proved recently with that roll.)

This statement confused me at first, but then I realised it was possibly a misuse of the word 'opaque'. I see this quite a lot and can cause confusion. So to clarify:

Transparent = see through
Translucent = semi see through
Opaque = not see through

The glass in bathroom windows is often (wrongly) called 'opaque', when in fact it is actually 'translucent'.


Just wanted to point this out so that we're all on the same page when describing our crystal

 

[vecktor]

are you making sure that the solvent level is below the spots when the plate is in the jar? the solvent front is showing a lot of absorbtion at 254 and neither of those solvents, once dried should be showing any absorbance across the top solvent front. is the developing jar clean?

the other possibility is that there are acidic components in the solvent which are making a salt from the freebase, the salt will hardly move in these solvent systems. this can be fixed by either adding a few drops of ammonia to the solvent or adding a few drops of triethylamine or by using purer solvents, and making sure you have freebase.
this is a good guide with troubleshooting TLC

Thin Layer Chromatography (TLC)

orgchemboulder.com

 

[epic11]

This statement confused me at first, but then I realised it was possibly a misuse of the word 'opaque'. I see this quite a lot and can cause confusion. So to clarify:

Transparent = see through
Translucent = semi see through
Opaque = not see through

The glass in bathroom windows is often (wrongly) called 'opaque', when in fact it is actually 'translucent'.


Just wanted to point this out so that we're all on the same page when describing our crystal

Thanks I definitely messed that up. Looking at your description, the crystal is definitely more on the Translucent/opaque spectrum than "transparent" Very pretty stuff. It even glistens in the light. You cant see through it nearly as well as some previous batches. But you can just a tad. Hope that helps.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

are you making sure that the solvent level is below the spots when the plate is in the jar? the solvent front is showing a lot of absorbtion at 254 and neither of those solvents, once dried should be showing any absorbance across the top solvent front. is the developing jar clean?

I would say a very definite yes to all of that, but I'll have another go - probably wednesday, and be super diligent to make sure.

the other possibility is that there are acidic components in the solvent which are making a salt from the freebase, the salt will hardly move in these solvent systems. this can be fixed by either adding a few drops of ammonia to the solvent or adding a few drops of triethylamine or by using purer solvents, and making sure you have freebase.
this is a good guide with troubleshooting TLC

Thin Layer Chromatography (TLC)

orgchemboulder.com

I'm getting the solvents from a chemical supplier and they claim 99.9% pure, etc... Will try what you suggest if nothing improves.

 

[vecktor]

I would say a very definite yes to all of that, but I'll have another go - probably wednesday, and be super diligent to make sure.



I'm getting the solvents from a chemical supplier and they claim 99.9% pure, etc... Will try what you suggest if nothing improves.

there are several documented TLC procedures specifically for amphetamine type compounds, system 2 in this paper is far more complex than one would think is needed but it is is dioxane, methanol, chloroform, aqueous ammonia. the dioxane is probably there to allow the aqueous ammonia to mix with the non polar components. but 95% methanol 5% concentrated aqueous ammonia would probably work fine. As would 99 % acetone 1% conc aq. ammonia. Dioxane is a peroxide forming solvent and has long been suspected to be carcinogenic.

http://acta-arhiv.chem-soc.si/54/54-1-106.pdf

the general rule is that you will need an amine, either ammonia diethylamine or triethylamine to keep the samples in freebase form and block acidic sites on the silica, your plates show tailing on the spots and ammonia or other solvent base would eliminate this. judging by the movement and shape there needs to be stronger solvent,and base.

minor thing, maybe also not draw the line all the way across the plate, just mark the edges, unles you are confident the pencil is soft enough not to damage the silica, also the pencil might contaminate the plate depending on what the graphite is bonded with.

the solvent systems in this paper are simpler and there are also recorded rf values for the systems (page 144)

https://maps.org/images/pdf/1982_obrien_1.pdf

luckily there is no need to reinvent the wheel, a simple not too toxic solvent system for TLC would be very useful for HR

 

[ThreePointCircle]

@vecktor when they say concentrated ammonia hydroxide in that second paper, what do you think that means? The place I've been getting the solvents from only has up to 33% concentration

 

[vecktor]

ammonium hydroxide NH4OH only exists as a solution of ammonia gas in water. Only a certain amount of ammonia will dissolve in water, roughly 35% by weight at room temperature which gives a powerful smelling solution with a density of 0.880g/ml (concentrated ammonia is often called 880 ammonia,) concentrated ammonia means any ammonia solution over 10% and 33% or 35 % is as concentrated as it gets.
quite often ammonium hydroxide is used as a shorthand for ammonia in water solution to distinguish it from ammonia gas or liquid ammonia, which is sort of correct but not great.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

@vecktor ah cool, ok

 

[G_Chem]

Thanks Hilo,

Yea I saw that posted elsewhere recently (likely from someone already involved in this discussion) as well as another research article claiming similar results.

I find it interesting too that the authors postulate (can’t remember which article lol) these regioisomers are originating from the particular synthesis route used and not added in after the fact.

All of this correlates well with our theory that different routes seem to produce different product. And also why back in the Hive days, people were confused when they’d make a batch which acts exactly as MDMA should but still seems lackluster with no apparent explanation.

It’s fascinating just how far we have to go in learning about chemistry and pharmacology..

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

I received my Mandelin reagent and performed tests on four samples. Just a quick refresher on what the four samples are...

Sample 1: This is the sample I had access to from 2005 onward. Same supplier. Never felt quite right. No eye dilation. Bad comedown. Have not used it in several years now, as I have been trying other samples. I think the last time I used it was November, 2017. Appearance = white/off white powder.

Sample 2: Tried this last NYE. Very little eye dilation. Lots of jaw clenching. No empathy or music appreciation. Stronger than sample 1, but still not right. Unpleasant comedown, as I recall. Appearance = pink/brown powder. As it has sat around over the last year it looks more like dirt than sand. Very brown, and forming into tiny clumps.

Sample 3: Most recent sample that I obtained. Better effects than other samples, but felt weak. Had more eye dilation than other samples, but still not full dilation. There was a brief moment, as I was coming up, where I felt the slightest possibility of magic, but the feeling never fully evolved. Appearance = translucent, large, crystals. Speculated that something may have been added to make the crystals so large. Friend said the product appeared hydrous (is that the right term?).

Sample 4: Newest sample. Have not consumed. Tested good on other tests and smells like the 90s (strong, root beer). Appearance = fluffy, light, off white powder.

Out of these four samples, I observed the following Mandelin results:

Sample 1 - Black. Minimal bubbling. Minimal smoking.

Sample 2 - Black. Minimal bubbling. No smoke. After sitting for awhile, there was a very slight blue area at the edge of the black.

Sample 3 - At first, I thought I saw a hint of green at the start. I tested this one twice to double check, but on the 2nd test I did not note any green. This one bubbled and smoked A LOT. There was constant bubbling and smoking, even after the reagent turned black.

Sample 4 - Green first (quick) then black. Smoking but almost no bubbling.

I find the combination of these elements interesting. Surely the smoking/bubbling is indicative of something, and the flash of green seems significant as well. Other people who have observed Mandelin reactions: have you noted smoking or bubbling?

 

[indigoaura]

In other news...

I made an impulsive decision over the weekend and consumed some MDMA. In previous post, this is referenced as sample 3. I had done it about 3 months ago. I was planning to abstain all the way through until NYE, and that would have been a better call for the experiment's sake. But, I was at an event and with friends, and wanted to have a good time. Shrug. It is what it is. Not a lot new to note, really. My results were basically the same as they were the last time I tried this product. I had eaten recently, so onset was delayed. The only thing I really noticed that I wanted feedback on was what was going on with my jaw. I am familiar with jaw clenching. However, jaw trembling/vibrating is a bit different. I thought the sensation was odd, and not one that I typically get. Has anyone noticed variation in jaw clenching vs. jaw trembling/vibrating?

Took 150 mg @ 11:38 pm (had eaten a large meal around 8:30 pm)
Started to come up @ 1:08 am
Peak from first dose @1:39 am
85 mg re-dose @ 2:15 am
Feeling re-dose @ 3:05 am
Took note of jaw vibrations @ 3:05 am
Took a 2nd 85 mg re-dose @ 4:30 am

Stayed awake until 7 am. Talked to friends off and on basically the whole time and laid around. No opportunity for sex, because my partner crashed right after I started partying. Music did not seem enhanced. No euphoria to note. Forgetfulness was a big problem. I must have lost my train of thought a million times. Not an issue I usually notice, but I am also usually not talking so much. I had to keep asking my friends what I was talking about. Went right to sleep at 7 am with no issue. Slept till 4 pm. Had a great night the next evening, and have had no significant comedown issues other than some minor nausea here and there.

Overall, this was a decent "meh" product, all things considered. It did not really make me sick like the other samples I have had access to. Easy to sleep afterwards. I have no way to access this stuff again, and I don't have enough left to send in to a lab, but at least I saved enough for the Mandelin tests that I posted about.

 

[AutoTripper]

Has anyone noticed variation in jaw clenching vs. jaw trembling/vibrating?

If you mean I kind of shaking and spasming like up and down or rather open and closed, with visible muscle reflexes and spasms visible in the cheeks and jawline, then yes absolutely. Of all the physiological effects, signs and cues, that particular one for me was the most magical and coincided with the best pills and most intense level of amazing magical euphoria in the experience.

Typically much more present at higher doses. Like for example, 2001, we had some FANTASTIC Smiley Face batches gping round. Absolutely out of this world pills. The first night we tried them my friend arrived with 10 and we were going to a club.

These will a type of pills that as soon as he pulled them out of his jacket the unmistakable MDMA aroma captivated my senses and and was practically intoxicating and will send shivers down your spine from several feet away.

We both took one pill each and we came up within 10 minutes in the pub I was on another planet for about an hour and a half until things level down and the experience really began because it was such a climb and transition.

Just one of those pills would do an entire night with an amazing experience and following day. However I was disappointed when Dominic Souls 2 of our pills to friends outside the pub before we had even made it to the club.

We really didn't need more than 1 but we both took 4 pills each and it was one of the most outstanding MDMA experiences I've ever had. Just absolutely on Top of the World everything poorly brilliant and amazing not a single second or hint of anything slightly negative or less than perfectly blessful and ideal however you looked at things.

We were completely off our heads in this club having a best dance ever. The two guys Dominic sold the two smiley faces too came up to us later in the club absolutely blown away animazement at how good that one pill each was and how it was miles better Than 4 pills they took the previous week which were white Rolexes.

We were sitting on benches in the outside section and and I remember my jaw literally shaking and spasm me up and down open and closed in what you could almost described as a violent manner. But not a problem at all I was absolutely as sky-high rushing on pure ecstasy as you could possibly want to be.

I experienced this particular spasming of the draw many times and always at that level of pure sheer amazing MDMA experience, very dose-related though in an intensity of effects sense.

Jaw clenching was very typical, less apparent with heavy regular use, resulting in a visibly increased muscle mass and tone in the jaw. To the point of being a telltale sign of a heavy "piller".

 

[indigoaura]

Chewing up the inside of my mouth was always an issue with good pills, or having a jaw that was just askew. But, I don't really recall trembling like I was cold.

 

[Trevylianos]

Um it was too readily available in crystal form for me to take responsibly.

 

[G_Chem]

I’ve heard the same complaint from others indigo, that the old product had more of swinging/chewing jaw whereas these days you see a lot of trembling like the person is really cold or something.

I’ve personally never had bad jaw clenching but I’m also a health nut and believe a lot of that comes from lacking magnesium in the diet. If anything it’s usually like a weird jaw position that I see on others or that I experience myself, kinda like out and to the side lol.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

I watched some Youtube videos of Mandelin reactions. The 6APB reaction looks a lot like the reactions I saw tonight with the bubbling.

Also @G_Chem, you are right about the weird jaw position that is out and to the side. I see that in old photos and videos. 2CB will sometimes give me that "cold" shivering effect, but I don't remember MDMA having that effect.

 

[epic11]

I

I find the combination of these elements interesting. Surely the smoking/bubbling is indicative of something, and the flash of green seems significant as well. Other people who have observed Mandelin reactions: have you noted smoking or bubbling?

The last batch i took, which was as close to a magic roll as ive had in a long time. Flashed green first, then black. Smoked too. That was GOOD SHIT. Matches what the original theory of a mandelin test may do if it were magic. Batch #4 matches my mandelin test. I think you are holding something fire.

In other news...

I made an impulsive decision over the weekend and consumed some MDMA. In previous post, this is referenced as sample 3. I had done it about 3 months ago. I was planning to abstain all the way through until NYE, and that would have been a better call for the experiment's sake. But, I was at an event and with friends, and wanted to have a good time. Shrug. It is what it is. Not a lot new to note, really. My results were basically the same as they were the last time I tried this product. I had eaten recently, so onset was delayed. The only thing I really noticed that I wanted feedback on was what was going on with my jaw. I am familiar with jaw clenching. However, jaw trembling/vibrating is a bit different. I thought the sensation was odd, and not one that I typically get. Has anyone noticed variation in jaw clenching vs. jaw trembling/vibrating?

Took 150 mg @ 11:38 pm (had eaten a large meal around 8:30 pm)
Started to come up @ 1:08 am
Peak from first dose @1:39 am
85 mg re-dose @ 2:15 am
Feeling re-dose @ 3:05 am
Took note of jaw vibrations @ 3:05 am
Took a 2nd 85 mg re-dose @ 4:30 am

Stayed awake until 7 am. Talked to friends off and on basically the whole time and laid around. No opportunity for sex, because my partner crashed right after I started partying. Music did not seem enhanced. No euphoria to note. Forgetfulness was a big problem. I must have lost my train of thought a million times. Not an issue I usually notice, but I am also usually not talking so much. I had to keep asking my friends what I was talking about. Went right to sleep at 7 am with no issue. Slept till 4 pm. Had a great night the next evening, and have had no significant comedown issues other than some minor nausea here and there.

Overall, this was a decent "meh" product, all things considered. It did not really make me sick like the other samples I have had access to. Easy to sleep afterwards. I have no way to access this stuff again, and I don't have enough left to send in to a lab, but at least I saved enough for the Mandelin tests that I posted about.

^ being forgetful has always been a side-effect of good mdma in my opinion, but my partner agrees the meh shit has a more "memory erasing" property to it. Forgetfulness is more pronounced on meh in my experiences as well.

Jaw trembling vs clenching is actually pretty normal. Ive seen both. Music not being enhanced and no euphoria is also big signs of meh, it also upsets me. Thats the best part! lol

 

[psy997]

I'm hoping to try this new batch I got a while back in a week or two. If it's good, I'll get a Mandelin to test both it and the two batches of Meh I have.