Opioids Pills before oxycontin

[Hezman94]

Did people complain about morphine bioavsbility before oxycontin came out what options were they say in the early 90s and how were doctors like with prescribing. Before Oxy was scripted slot was it all codeine and morphine when did vicodin get popular and why is there no hydrocodonr in the UK they hate scripting Oxy here very expensive where as morphine is dirt cheap and tbh I think morphine withdrawal is alot worse and its stronger just not orally

What pain relief options were available also I did a suicide attempt and scared doctors cut me down off my morphine I hope not but they are cutting everyone without cancer to 120mgba day morphine. Is 160mg morphijeba day really strong bas my doctor says so I need to keep the pills and cut down myself I'm not mentally ready for it I just don't wanna take baby extra and need to stop snokin white and ending up on heroin cosbi get horrible voices in my head on a comedown

 

[Nicomorphinist]

It was pretty bad back then when I was at university there -- for the first 18 months my family and I endeavoured to keep me on morphine and dextromoramide from Europe for chronic pain until I found a decent doctor in the US . . .

The Contin system of extended-release products started with theophylline, the caffeine congener used by itself and in various combinations for asthma, 1988 I think that was, so Purdue Pharma's third new item, OxyContin, filled a very real need and continues to do so. There was MS-Contin too, of course, and their Canadian people came up with HydromorphContin, and al or most of these are available in Europe and elsewhere and nothing untoward has happened public health-wise -- the fake opioid ci$i$ is a lie made from whole cloth to make some people rich, those being rehabilitation people and the politicians they cowed into helping them.

Oxycodone is preferred over morphine by some practitioners because it does not cause as much sedation and is less nauseating than morphine for a lot of people. As was known as early as 1920, oxycodone seem to have an added dimension to the euphoria is causes, namely it feels like Nose Candy to many people. The euphoria is part of the analgesia and they will never be able to come up with a non-euphoriant effective pain reliever, but a speedball at the molecular level like oxycodone is described as being can lead some people astray in theory . . .

Oxycodone did not have the connotations that morphine had, so there was that element as well.

 

[Hezman94]

Shame about oxys cocaine kinda properties especially if u sniff it you fiend s little and when the euphoria wears off you want it back. Morphine is very subtle I only need more if in pain or if not took enough as do have s tolerance as I've always crushed my polls up like a idiot but I been taking less in more doses spread thoughiut I did take them properly for a bit but noticed the zomorph does not last twelve hours

 

[Hezman94]

And the fact oxycodone give me seven hours on extended and three if lucky instant whereas morphine is double the instant and if taken properly no crushing I do feel pain relief overnight hours later I remember mscontin lasting for ages but the zomorph provides better relief for me I think cos there time released balls not a big waxy tablet

 

[Hodor]

The Contin system of extended-release products started with theophylline, the caffeine congener used by itself and in various combinations for asthma, 1988 I think that was, so Purdue Pharma's third new item, OxyContin, filled a very real need and continues to do so. There was MS-Contin too, of course, and their Canadian people came up with HydromorphContin, and al or most of these are available in Europe and elsewhere and nothing untoward has happened public health-wise -- the fake opioid ci$i$ is a lie made from whole cloth to make some people rich, those being rehabilitation people and the politicians they cowed into helping them.

I'd say the opioid crisis is/was very much real (although it does look like they've now overcompensated by making impossible for actual pain patients to get appropriate medical care), but the problem was obviously not the drug itself, but the fact that it was massively overprescribed. Oxycontin is an excellent product for people who are in debilitating pain because their insides are getting eaten alive by tumors, or they just suffered a severe injury. It is not, however, a sustainable *long-term* solution in the majority, where a combination of milder drugs, physical therapy and lifestyle changes will eventually yield better results.

Europeans weren't handing out strong opioids like candy (granted, we were pretty liberal with dispensing sleep-inducing benzos like flunitrazepam or temazepam at times though); tilidine, for example, is one of the weaker opioids on the market, but to the Germans it is among the most problematic prescription pharms simply because it is one of the most widely prescribed opioids they have. And yes, when you get the bright idea of overprescribing a *strong* opioid, thinking that it should carry a low risk of abuse because it's extended release, then you very much have a problem on your hands, as was the case when Austria decided to hand out take-home doses of several hundred mg's of ER morphine per day as an alternative to methadone treatment.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Given that the US CDC of all organisations has found that iatrogenic narcotic addiction is very uncommon, as low as 7 cases per 100 000, the numbers don't add up though.

Then there is the issue of the unsupervised narcotics users actually hacking out a workable old school use for them -- psych meds, as they were used for depression and anxiety until the late 1950s., and now they are being joined by the pain patients who have been cut off.

Strong opioids are a viable option for long term treatment of demonstrable damage to the body, I've been on mainly morphine for almost 50 years and at some points more than 5 grammes a day for the same kind of spine problems that my grandfather took morphine for a period of over 65 years and a woman I met in the US when going to university died of old age in 2009 two months short of 102 years on diamorphine then morphine. The problems with it are constipation and tolerance, which reach a plateau after some months and can be managed.

Isn't addiction/habituation potential more or less a moot question when Opioid Substitution Therapy is considered for a patient? The Austrian programmes have used purpose-developed 120 and 200 mg capsules of slow release morphine and this third option started back in 1998 and since then the idea has expanded to include extended-release dihydrocodeine and tramadol, with extended-release hydromorphone and immediate release dextromoramide being studied. The idea behind using Codidol, Substitutol fine-tuned with Vendal/MST Continus, levomethadone, methadone, LAAM and the like are so that there are not incapacitating peaks and valleys of serum concentration of the opioids. Such peaks and valleys are even more of a problem for pain patients.

 

[Zonxx]

Such peaks and valleys are even more of a problem for pain patients.

fuck this is all too true. however every substance has to have a peak at some point really :/ but it is evident. i deal with this day to day, and need multiple doses of instant release through the day to compliment my morphine that lasts a good 8-10 hours (crushed XR, which has never really seemed to last anything less than 6-10 hours at the very least while providing their max pain relief) but after the peak, as hours go by i slowly notice pain more and more until i decide to take either hydro or oxy to address it

 

[Wilson Wilson]

There were still stronger opioids than morphine used, but they were mostly synthetic ones like Palfium, that was huge in the UK both in medicine and among recreational users before it was discontinued and sounds really good - it apparently has a really quick onset and a nice rush even when taken orally.

Oxycodone was discovered by the Germans back in 1920's so it's not a novel drug, but it seems like it wasn't really widely prescribed in modern medicine until the time-release formula was created by Purdue.

However OxyContin just replaced drugs like Palfium, we still had stronger opioids than morphine before OxyContin came into existence, and tbh they could be better drugs. I've read that Palfium or an analogue of it might be coming out of China soon from another thread here on OD. If that happens I'd be very curious to try it.

Oxy imo is overhyped. Easy to get hooked on but dependence and tolerance kick in very very quickly so that where 80mg would have you straight nodding a month ago, 160mg would just keep withdrawals away soon after.

But even though everyone complains about how "weak" oral morphine is, I got two strips of 10mg Zomorph during my oxy habit and that stuff had me nodding harder than oxy despite my high tolerance. I absolutely consider morphine to be the gold standard of opiates, above oxy. I say this for both pain relief and recreation. Morphine kills my back pain far more effectively than oxycodone.

So hey as far as I'm concerned let the doctors demonise oxy if it means morphine scripts are easier to get. I'd rather have a big bottle of Oramorph than a box of OC80's any day.

I have to give an honourable mention to dihydrocodeine too which still has a place in my heart for being my first opiate love. When I got a script for 240mg a day after some surgery, with no tolerance, it was pure fucking bliss. And I just followed the script which said two pills four times a day. Doctor's orders!

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Maybe oxycodone is demonised because the work was already done on morphine in past generations and there are more oxycodone patients than morphine patients in the USA. Also, the fact that oxycodone hits the pleasure centres of the spine and brain directly, it has a spectrum of effects combining those of codeine, morphine, cocaine, and maybe Captagon for the extended-release formulations -- this makes it unmanageable for the Post-Modern Techno-Industrial Megastate . . . just think of it: a drug which makes people love everybody all day long and little nod involved, meaning they can be on the streets and in offices and podiums and pulpits spreading the gospel of narcotics. Somebody, after all, is making a mint on all of the hatred and divisiveness going on over there . . .

And of course, the longer it keeps the heat off of morphine and hydromorphone, all the better.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

You know I've had a shitload of oxy in my time, I mean until recently I was getting OC80's practically thrown at me for free and I've previously had multiple brands from multiple sources, and never ever has it ever felt anything like cocaine. It does have a stimulating edge to it which morphine does not, but I don't get this whole "oxy feels like a speedball" thing - that's either hyperbole or maybe my body chemistry just doesn't provide that effect.

Oxy does not even have the warmth I look for in an opiate. It does have less histamine release than morphine I'll give it that. But after using oxy three or four times I can't even nod off it anymore even with multiple 80's up my nose and chewed with my tongue green as a Christmas tree. I've not found morphine tolerance to grow this quickly, this is exceptionally fast tolerance buildup exclusive to oxy.

And as I said before it's not even a good painkiller in my experience. I do have some legit back pain going on and morphine kills it. In fact even high dose DHC is enough really. But oxy, this supposed grand powerful king of opiates, can't even put a dent in my fucking back pain. I might as well just take a few Paramol and Nurofen Plus if I wanted actual painkillers. It'd help more than oxy.

But whenever I get a bottle of Oramorph I can sip through that motherfucker and feel warm and amazing and pain-free all day. Even when I got Zomorph which is time release, I just ate the caps normally and felt amazing despite the oxy tolerance. Morphine is god.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

The histamine release is part of what precipitates the rush of narcotics administration because of the vasodilation, which could be part of the lack of warmth. It is in this respect that I don't even consider fentanyl to be a narcotic at all in several important respects but rather a third type of systemic anaesthetic along with the dissociatives like ketamine and Angel Dust and general anaesthetics of the ether/halothane type and it just happens to hit opioid receptors as part of an Everything But The Kitchen Sink strategy. Which is not to say that there are not people that get off on it -- there are people out there who adore curare and ether and chloroform too . . .

With all of the 14-dihydromorphinones in existence, the degree of difference betwixt oxycodone and, for example hydrocodone is quite fascinating. In addition to the ones out there now, there are other possibilities in making changes at the 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, and 17 positions on the morphine carbon skeleton in addition to the more obvious 3, 6, and 14 positions -- there are acetylated versions of hydromorphone and oxymorphone and their prodrugs and relatives as in acetylmorphone and thebacon and 3,14-diacetyloxymorphone and about five other such acetylated oxymorphone derivatives , then hydrogenation at 6 and/or 8 as in 4,5α-Epoxy-17-methylmorphinan-3,6β,14-triol for the former case; metopon is an excellent strong analgesic made from hydrogenating hydromorphone at the 5 position, and it should be possible to halogenate the 1 and/or 2 positions to get an increase in CNS penetration for any of the above I would think.

This is also how dihydrocodeine and hydrocodone are wonderful relatives of morphine in this respect, as is the case with hydromorphone, oxymorphone, hydromorphinol and oxymorphol. Codeine is also more impressive in a lot of respects than its 10-15 per cent potency compared to morphine would suggest.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

DHC is extremely underrated. Under NICE guidelines it is considered to be a weak opioid below tramadol. I find this ridiculous personally, as if anything tramadol should be right at the bottom and DHC is actually very euphoric if you have the low tolerance to appreciate it.

I agree about codeine too. Again it does depend on the user having low tolerance, but codeine is pretty bloody nice. I genuinely enjoy it more than oxy, my body must be good at metabolising it and DHC. In fact I think the best use for oxy is to potentiate weaker opiates like codeine and DHC so I get a good proper nod off them even with tolerance. Make no mistake, in those combos the euphoria is coming from the weaker opiate and the oxy is acting purely as the potentiator.

Some of my best nods though have come from a combo of DHC + morphine + temazepam. Ohhhhh my. But I have to admit my recent dosing of 300mg+ DHC with 160mg oxy was also very nice, much much more euphoric than oxy on its own. Heavy nods too. But for anyone else reading, those doses were due to tolerance, don't start taking those doses if you are opiate naive.

 

[xbandit07x]

I would try a benzo prior