Detox Kratom boo-boo...advice appreciated

[SnarkyV]

I need some help here. I read a thread on here from a “kratom guru/Kratom guy” and now can’t find it. So I’ll just post.


Long story short. Hi! I’m Snarky (but in a delighful way )......and I’m on day 5 quitting about 40-50mg/day Norco. My doctor tapered me by my request and let me tell you.... after 5 years it was a mess. The taper was fast. Day 1, 5 as needed for pain, Day 2-3, 4 as needed for pain. Day 3-4.....you get the picture. By day 5 (second reduction) I was dying. It shocked me how bad it was. Certainly the doctor has to know this? She told me “it’s short acting; you might have some discomfort but it will be doable”....um. Don’t know her idea of “doable”....
I didn’t want to deal with Pain management doc anymore because she’s pushing Subutex for a (most commonly 4) pill a day dependence. (Which I know Subutex can be a life saver!! But....) So, I decided I CAN DO THIS. My friend suggested Kratom. Sounded like an excellent plan. Detox then taper. Let’s go.

Well ya see. I live in the heart of the Bible Belt so Kratom isn’t exactly plentiful. No cool Kratom bars. I researched, and my husband headed out on the town....the smoke shop had the Kratom y’all have said don’t get (“prepackaged with a pretty picture”) or those OPMS shots. Husband said the dude at the smoke shop said the shots would be good and it made sense to not have to eat the powder. (I was wrong. I was stupid. I admit it.) Plus I had read sometimes the smoke shop powder stuff can be bad. I did a quick google search and saw the OPMS stuff was at least legit. (I honestly don’t know what the hell I was thinking!!! I was dying at the time. Cant change the past, right? But you can steer the present and future.)

So he came home and I started. I used a baby med dropper and was taking 2ml at a time at first - and I think went up to 4ml that night. In total, I was taking 1 bottle to 11/8, 1/4ish bottle of the OPMS shot daily. And I have to say even though I felt like I could run through a wall, it worked beautifully. Until I read here it’s supposed to be the powder ....
And then I had a mild (yeah it wasn’t mild) 2am panic attack worried I had really screwed up. I was very relieved to read that switching to the powder should work.

That led to researching suppliers (WELL this time) and I had some Red Bali overnighted. And Red Maeng Da (sp?). Started this morning.

I don’t know what I’m doing wrong y’all. I still have the chills and am achy. I did the “less is more” thing y’all all talk about and added small dose after 1 hour. I’ve taken 2 teaspoons. (I’m a light weight and don’t want to puke.) Even though improved, I STILL am not comfortable. I am NOT looking for a “high”....if I can be blunt here, just no swampy forehead and neck, or boob sweat, would make me the happiest Snarky girl in the south. Starting to wonder if it’s in my head?! I feel live I’ve swallowed a shrub!! It should be working according to what I’ve read for my size and amount of Norco taken. (I’m 115lbs if that matters).

I guess my question is how should I do this? The goal is getting off Kratom by the 2 week mark. Although I’ve read that may be a mistake. Even so. I have to find the “sweet spot” with the powder first before I can taper. And that’s proving frustrating. Any advice on the next dosage (2pm CST) amount, different strain suggestions (I’ll need to order so don’t have on hand to help today), or other tricks. I don’t have any of the fancy RX meds like y’all do and would prefer to not take a bunch of OTC stuff. I have Kratom, Advil, and those “shots” which I don't plan to touch. Yes if push comes to shove I can keep going as is. But I would prefer to function well the next 2 days. They are soooo busy because Ive already “had the flu” for a week!! I am SO mad at myself for not being more thorough with research. This Kratom world is very confusing.


But. I am very thankful for it. And also so many of you. I spent the last 2 nights reading so many stories. Even with the support of my family, it’s so helpful to not feel alone.

 

[negrogesic]

I enjoyed your Southern enthusiasm but I am not 100% sure what you are asking.

Two teaspoons is a fair amount (something in the order of 6 to 8 grams)...I am surprised it didn't help you that much.

If this is your first withdrawal, it shouldn't be that bad (though, interestingly, in some ways the first time is also the worst because it is such a foreign experience).

I'd continue with the kratom as needed until you feel more comfortable.

There is herbal product you can buy on amazon that seems to help with opioid withdrawal (particularly relatively low level withdrawal similar to what you are experiencing) called black seed oil. Get the "Healths Harmony" brand, its cheap and is delivered fast. Its worth a try perhaps.

 

[SnarkyV]

I enjoyed your Southern enthusiasm but I am not 100% sure what you are asking.

Two teaspoons is a fair amount (something in the order of 6 to 8 grams)...I am surprised it didn't help you that much.

If this is your first withdrawal, it shouldn't be that bad (though, interestingly, in some ways the first time is also the worst because it is such a foreign experience).

I'd continue with the kratom as needed until you feel more comfortable.

There is herbal product you can buy on amazon that seems to help with opioid withdrawal (particularly relatively low level withdrawal similar to what you are experiencing) called black seed oil. Get the "Healths Harmony" brand, its cheap and is delivered fast. Its worth a try perhaps.

Thank you so much for responding. Yes. First (and damn sure the worst) withdrawal. And I’m sorry for rambling. Lol. My mind isn’t working that stellarly.....

I guess I’m asking (now): if the OPMS liquid shot can really cause a damn addiction in 4 days?! Or is what I’m feeling still the hydro?

I’m so mad at myself. I knew this wasn’t going to be like eating Nutella sipping tea on a warm spring day....but I had a plan and from everything I have read, I thought it would work.

I am currently so sick. I’ve taken the powder .... red and green. All day. I just don’t know what to do. Could this be the hydro withdrawal? Why is the Kratom not helping at all? I thought about taking 2ml of the OPMS liquid stuff - maybe use that and powder for the next few days...let my body heal? But will this just happen again? I don’t want that!!!

I will look into the black seed oil. Thank you again.

 

[nuttynutskin]

It's hard to know really since there's not a whole lot of quality controls for kratom, although the brand I've been getting lists the percentages of mitragyine. I've never been addicted to opiates so I don't have any experience as far as that, but I will say that starting out it took me about 6 grams to "work". Now I'm up 30 grams but I've been taking it a while and I've found out first hand that tolerance goes up pretty quickly with it. How much are you taking now? You might just need to tweak with your dosage. Another thing that I've found out is unfortunately the effects don't last all that long so you might need to redose more if you're trying to fend off opiate withdrawals. I'd say every four hours or so.

 

[SnarkyV]

It's hard to know really since there's not a whole lot of quality controls for kratom, although the brand I've been getting lists the percentages of mitragyine. I've never been addicted to opiates so I don't have any experience as far as that, but I will say that starting out it took me about 6 grams to "work". Now I'm up 30 grams but I've been taking it a while and I've found out first hand that tolerance goes up pretty quickly with it. How much are you taking now? You might just need to tweak with your dosage. Another thing that I've found out is unfortunately the effects don't last all that long so you might need to redose more if you're trying to fend off opiate withdrawals. I'd say every four hours or so.

Hello! Thank you for responding!

5g and 6g is where I was starting today. Then adding 1-2g if it didn’t help. I took so much powder today it’s insane. I finally gave in and took a 1ml dropper of the liquid stuff. Barely any help there either. I have no clue what’s going on. Aside from misery.

I just can’t imagine 4 days of anything would result in this reaction. But IF the whole issue is the “liquid” form I was taking, the powder should help ease withdrawal as they are the same substance in different form (I do realize the liquid is stronger). The whole thing makes no sense to me. I just know I had the best of intentions and a taper plan - and now I don’t really know what to do.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Hello! Thank you for responding!

5g and 6g is where I was starting today. Then adding 1-2g if it didn’t help. I took so much powder today it’s insane. I finally gave in and took a 1ml dropper of the liquid stuff. Barely any help there either. I have no clue what’s going on. Aside from misery.

I just can’t imagine 4 days of anything would result in this reaction. But IF the whole issue is the “liquid” form I was taking, the powder should help ease withdrawal as they are the same substance in different form (I do realize the liquid is stronger). The whole thing makes no sense to me. I just know I had the best of intentions and a taper plan - and now I don’t really know what to do.

You probably just need to up the dose. Kratom's relatively weak compared to "real" opioids. It is a lot of powder to have to swallow down lol.

 

[negrogesic]

I guess I’m asking (now): if the OPMS liquid shot can really cause a damn addiction in 4 days?! Or is what I’m feeling still the hydro?

I can almost guarantee that what you are experiencing is primarily hydrocodone withdrawal (you took a decent dose of hydrocodone for years).

Its not going to be easy but it does get better pretty quickly.

What are your primary symptoms? I assume restlessness, anxiety, aches and insomnia are your main symptoms, along with some gastrointestinal issues.

 

[SnarkyV]

I can almost guarantee that what you are experiencing is primarily hydrocodone withdrawal (you took a decent dose of hydrocodone for years).

Its not going to be easy but it does get better pretty quickly.

What are your primary symptoms? I assume restlessness, anxiety, aches and insomnia are your main symptoms, along with some gastrointestinal issues.

Thank you for responding.

Yes. That was most of them. Minus the aches oddly. Horrible chills and sweats. Horrid.

And now it’s this anxiety that I want to scream and pull my arms and legs off. It’s awful. Almost always at night. Sometimes during the day. And fear like I’ve never felt before. I know you don’t know me. But I’ve always been an optimist. “It will be ok” is like my life slogan. I’ve never had such negative thoughts and they are scaring me. (Not self harm. Nothing like that.) Just the feeling of “this isn’t going to work” and “I’ve always been a good mom and I can’t be a good mom like this.” I’m soooo scared. It’s 1:45am here and all I can think about is the things I have to do tomorrow and the next day and how I’m going to do them. My husband, who has been a gem, goes back to work tomorrow and I’m just so f*cking terrified.

I am taking the OPMS again because the guide I’m using says use Kratom replacement for 10 days. (I tried powder again yesterday and I got really bad hot flashes.) But going 4-6+ hours in between and only taking 2ml. Trying to stretch out doses and take less. I am scared to death to not wean. But at the same time scared to death TO wean because I do NOT want to feel that again. It was awful. Ive been on the OPMs 7 days now. Day 8 since I last took Norco. Do you think if I try again it will be more manageable. Because I’m feeling pretty hopeless. And that’s just not me. Even before Norco me. I am DETERMINED to make it. Determined. I don’t want to do Subutex/sobixine.

Thank you again. Any and all advice would be appreciated.

 

[SnarkyV]

Also. My husband thinks I may have adverse reaction to the Kratom. Every time I take the powder it makes me pins and needles and hot in my limbs. Hard to explain. He thinks what I was feeling was the Norco withdrawal with that added. Because I took a lot of powder and it seemed to worsen which each dose after the initial one.
This is how well my brain is functioning....when he was talking about the powder making me worse I said “maybe it’s the red dye”...then remembered it’s a plant. Just been a rough week. I think made rougher by me reading and panicking and trying to just stop the OPMS mid withdrawal from Norco. I think I take the timeline too seriously. To me? I was past 72 hours so the worst was over....just not thinking. And I feel like I am just whining incessantly. So I will hush. Thanks again!

 

[negrogesic]

Also. My husband thinks I may have adverse reaction to the Kratom. Every time I take the powder it makes me pins and needles and hot in my limbs. Hard to explain. He thinks what I was feeling was the Norco withdrawal with that added. Because I took a lot of powder and it seemed to worsen which each dose after the initial one.
This is how well my brain is functioning....when he was talking about the powder making me worse I said “maybe it’s the red dye”...then remembered it’s a plant. Just been a rough week. I think made rougher by me reading and panicking and trying to just stop the OPMS mid withdrawal from Norco. I think I take the timeline too seriously. To me? I was past 72 hours so the worst was over....just not thinking. And I feel like I am just whining incessantly. So I will hush. Thanks again!

Honestly I still suspect much of what you are feeling is hydrocodone withdrawal, not kratom withdrawal. The worst is not over in 72 hours after stopping hydrocodone, i think day 4 might be the worst, and it doesn't turn around much until day 6. Its all so gradual, and you can easily still feel terrible at day 7. The kratom may be prolonging the withdrawal however.

Kratom withdrawal is pretty short if youve only taken it for short period of time. You might want to quickly discontinue otherwise you will be simply dragging out the process. I'd recommend stopping the kratom as soon as possible.

Id recommend taking a little over the counter imodium (loperamide), perhaps start at 8 pills a day, then decrease by one tablet every day, along with some benadryl (perhaps 25-50mg diphenhydramine) at night (and during the day if it is helpful). Black seed oil capsules will help too.

The kratom is 100% going to drag out the process while at the same time not making you feel that much better. I get the pins and needles skin feeling from kratom too, especially in the first 45 minutes after taking it (especially with the extracts). Try the loperamide taper I recommended. Loperamide takes a while to kick in but 8 tablets should bring you some relief. Decrease by 1 a day.

 

[nuttynutskin]

The kratom is 100% going to drag out the process while at the same time not making you feel that much better. I get the pins and needles skin feeling from kratom too, especially in the first 45 minutes after taking it (especially with the extracts). Try the loperamide taper I recommended. Loperamide takes a while to kick in but 8 tablets should bring you some relief. Decrease by 1 a day.

I was thinking the same thing... Maybe you should ditch the kratom and just tough it out through the opiate withdrawals with some comfort meds if it's not really helping.

 

[D_K1984]

From my own personal life experience, and everyone’s is different, hydrocodone withdrawal always seemed to last around a week with days 2&3 being the worst for me and around 6&7 being better physically but then the dreaded mental aspects come into play.

As for Kratom. It helped my stomach issues and mentally helped with my demeanor. That’s about it. I always thought it helped me transition into the days after the physical part.

You’ll get there. It feels like it can last forever but it will end. The ability to make your suffering stop with just one pill is tempting but it will only bring you back down further from your goal you’ve set for yourself.

Also this is your safe space. Complain, yell, say what’s on your mind, and whatever else you want. You’re not bothering anyone. Some even find comfort in your words and will use your story of success to push themselves forward knowing it will get better.

 

[negrogesic]

I should have mentioned.

Be active. Go on walks, as long as you tolerate. Exercise even if possible. Homeostasis (return to "normal") occurs much faster when you are more physically active. I've beat enormous opioid habits through this. It helps with the psychological aspect as well.

 

[SnarkyV]

Honestly I still suspect much of what you are feeling is hydrocodone withdrawal, not kratom withdrawal. The worst is not over in 72 hours after stopping hydrocodone, i think day 4 might be the worst, and it doesn't turn around much until day 6. Its all so gradual, and you can easily still feel terrible at day 7. The kratom may be prolonging the withdrawal however.

Kratom withdrawal is pretty short if youve only taken it for short period of time. You might want to quickly discontinue otherwise you will be simply dragging out the process. I'd recommend stopping the kratom as soon as possible.

Id recommend taking a little over the counter imodium (loperamide), perhaps start at 8 pills a day, then decrease by one tablet every day, along with some benadryl (perhaps 25-50mg diphenhydramine) at night (and during the day if it is helpful). Black seed oil capsules will help too.

The kratom is 100% going to drag out the process while at the same time not making you feel that much better. I get the pins and needles skin feeling from kratom too, especially in the first 45 minutes after taking it (especially with the extracts). Try the loperamide taper I recommended. Loperamide takes a while to kick in but 8 tablets should bring you some relief. Decrease by 1 a day.

Thank you so much!!! I will get what is needed in the morning and give it a go.
One question and even though they say “no such thing as a stupid question” this might be stupid!! What about constipation? I assume you mean I need to take them on a sliding basis for 8 days?! Also. 8 pills at one time? Or split?
And one last question. I have trazodone. Is that an ok sub for Benadryl (assume that’s for sleep) or does the Benadryl have other functions? I just know trazodone helps with seratonin...

Thank you ALL so much!!!

 

[SnarkyV]

And I have no idea how to “like” all your posts or I would. Each one has been so helpful.

 

[negrogesic]

Thank you so much!!! I will get what is needed in the morning and give it a go.
One question and even though they say “no such thing as a stupid question” this might be stupid!! What about constipation? I assume you mean I need to take them on a sliding basis for 8 days?! Also. 8 pills at one time? Or split?
And one last question. I have trazodone. Is that an ok sub for Benadryl (assume that’s for sleep) or does the Benadryl have other functions? I just know trazodone helps with seratonin...

Thank you ALL so much!!!

If you are in alot of discomfort you might take them all at once. Otherwise split them up as much as possible. Constipation shouldnt be too bad. Trazodone is fine, and you can take diphenhydramine with it if you need it.

 

[SnarkyV]

If you are in alot of discomfort you might take them all at once. Otherwise split them up as much as possible. Constipation shouldnt be too bad. Trazodone is fine, and you can take diphenhydramine with it if you need it.

Ok. So. I’m on hour 12 - almost to hour 13 - of no Kratom in any form. Feel a tad shaky....a tad like jello. Can’t see it if you look at me, but I can feel it. Intestines are a tad grumpy. But nothing bad there even. Heart is a little rapid; but I think that’s because I’m sitting here worried, waiting for the gamut to drop.
And that’s it. No sweats. No yawning. No sneezing. Just sitting here starving to death. And. Waiting.

I have the Imodium. And am just waiting.
I am trying not to set myself up for a disaster disappointment here. But. Could the physical part of this nightmare be over....? I’ve read w/ Kratom (and Kratom products) the withdrawals hit pretty fast. 12-13 hours isn’t fast. I would be dying by now if Norco were involved. Could my system finally be free of this SHIT?! It’s Day 10.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Ok. So. I’m on hour 12 - almost to hour 13 - of no Kratom in any form. Feel a tad shaky....a tad like jello. Can’t see it if you look at me, but I can feel it. Intestines are a tad grumpy. But nothing bad there even. Heart is a little rapid; but I think that’s because I’m sitting here worried, waiting for the gamut to drop.
And that’s it. No sweats. No yawning. No sneezing. Just sitting here starving to death. And. Waiting.

I have the Imodium. And am just waiting.
I am trying not to set myself up for a disaster disappointment here. But. Could the physical part of this nightmare be over....? I’ve read w/ Kratom (and Kratom products) the withdrawals hit pretty fast. 12-13 hours isn’t fast. I would be dying by now if Norco were involved. Could my system finally be free of this SHIT?! It’s Day 10.

I think you'll be fine honestly. People have cold-turkeyed a lot higher doses of opiates and survived. Try to find something else to preoccupy yourself with. Thinking about everything will just make it worse. Easier said than done, I know.

 

[SnarkyV]

I think you'll be fine honestly. People have cold-turkeyed a lot higher doses of opiates and survived. Try to find something else to preoccupy yourself with. Thinking about everything will just make it worse. Easier said than done, I know.

Lol!!!!! Yes. Yes it is!!! I just keep telling myself that I feel TOO GOOD. I’m supposed to be depressed. Not happy and hungry. PAWS is next. Not “omg kids who wants Taco Bell at 1:24AM?!”. So there has to be an explanation. Because “according to the guide” I’m supposed to be ____here____....maybe I need to burn the guide. It’s been helpful without doubt....but....

I also think I still have it in my head I’m “addicted” to the Kratom when you and negrogesic have both told me 20 times it’s NOT the Kratom -OPMS shot/extract or otherwise. It’s the Norco. (And I think one other person too..).

I usually follow directions and listen well. Sigh. I’ll tell you what I DO know. This fucks. Your. Head. UP. It makes you paranoid and anxious and dreadful and just not thinking right.

Thank you SOOO MUCH. I will be sure and update y’all. Hugs - Snarky

 

[SnarkyV]

Update.

I don’t feel BAD. Just weird. My kids liked Pokémon when little. You know that little yellow dude who runs around and shocks the others? Pikichu I think? Yeah. I feel like Pikichu...minus the cool lightening bolt tail. (Darn.)
It’s annoying, but not anything I can’t cope with. Slight sweats earlier. Again. Not bad at all. A little bathroom fun. But again. Not that bad. Whatabuger fries probably weren’t my best decision at this point in time. Lol. So I would classify this as not even on the level of “slight flu”.....just annoying.

I went ahead and took 3 Imodium. I figure I will sit here and worry if not. And why worry? If I’m feeling worse I’ll take a couple more in a few hours, etc, up to 8. I got up and drove. That’s the one thing that really relaxes me. Driving and music. As you can see, if I were bad off, I’d not be able to drive. So. - So far. I’m still pretty hopeful this is just “the annoying AF end”. Nothing seems to be getting worse. As a matter of fact, the flush feeling is better.

It’s just this feeling that I’m electric....very odd sensation. Very odd.