F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
The very fact that my view is not supported by 70% of Americans definitely proves that mental health care is required - for the fuckin lot of you...
Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2019ish
- Thread starter cduggles
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The very fact that my view is not supported by 70% of Americans definitely proves that mental health care is required - for the fuckin lot of you...
Zopiclone bandit
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Wanna bet on that?
How much you want to put on it? I got a feeling I may be rich really soon, a rebore .38 can be picked up for £200 (a dog once told me this btw, godamn dogs running with crack dealers are the scum of the earth)
Zopiclone bandit
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What a lot of people from the UK like F.U.B.A.R. seem to fail to grasp & also sadly folks from the USA too is this & it is sssooo simple folks to understand so here we go...........
................IT'S AN AMERICAN PERSONS LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN.
It is ALWAYS "Liberal" types & Leftist freaks that want to take away a persons rights & laws so the state can stick their fucking nose into a persons business, what the hell is wrong with you lot I swear to God!!!!!
If I had my way the UK would be like the USA in a way, I don't give a toss let people have rocket launchers for all I care & so what if some people die? That is life & like I said before in this thread if I was shot in the head by some nutcase with an AR-15 I would see it as a quick death & praise the Lord for it too, I'd prefer to have my head blown off than die of brain cancer etc.
God I hate you Liberal types sssoooo much, always crying over stuff. Time to suck up some hard facts of life I say & also if the UK had legal guns someone tried to rob my mom or nan, break into my house to steal my goods etc I'd blow a dinner plate sized hole in their face then laugh about it.
................IT'S AN AMERICAN PERSONS LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN.
It is ALWAYS "Liberal" types & Leftist freaks that want to take away a persons rights & laws so the state can stick their fucking nose into a persons business, what the hell is wrong with you lot I swear to God!!!!!
If I had my way the UK would be like the USA in a way, I don't give a toss let people have rocket launchers for all I care & so what if some people die? That is life & like I said before in this thread if I was shot in the head by some nutcase with an AR-15 I would see it as a quick death & praise the Lord for it too, I'd prefer to have my head blown off than die of brain cancer etc.
God I hate you Liberal types sssoooo much, always crying over stuff. Time to suck up some hard facts of life I say & also if the UK had legal guns someone tried to rob my mom or nan, break into my house to steal my goods etc I'd blow a dinner plate sized hole in their face then laugh about it.
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
Cry moar
Zopiclone bandit
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F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Yes, I appreciate the points you're making and to clarify, when I think of mass shootings in the US, I naturally think of the ones we hear about - I.e. the school and shopping mall shootings. From what I gather, these are usually carried out by some disaffected youth with an axe to grind and access to his Dad's fully stocked gun cabinet. The fact remains that if these individuals didn't have ready access to weapons, whether they be handguns, shotguns or assault rifles, it just wouldn't happen. Surely no-one can deny this?
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Chris42393
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I see what you're saying, and I understand the reasoning behind it. BUT ... if "some disaffected youth with an axe to grind" is unable to get a gun from his dads gun cabinent arent there other ways to get guns? Arent there other ways to kill people? Someone who wants to commit a mass shooting ie. a school shooting, isnt going to just give up that easily. Like I said, they will either steal a gun (from another person), buy it illegally or think of another way to cause mass destruction.
Why should I be punished for something that rarely happens? (I know someone is going to comment "If its rare, then why did 2 of them just happen?" ... Well, its still stastically "rare")
In my line of work, ive responded to more drunk driving fatalities than I have gun related murders (and ive been to a lot). For example, just the other day a drunk driver killed 4 people. He blew through a red light at about 90 mph and t-boned a mini van in a intersection. Killed everyone. The van looked like a crumpled up soda can.
Should we ban vehicles? Should be ban alcohol?
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
I don't think anyone is proposing that you should ban guns - hell, even we haven't banned guns completely, they're just very hard to get hold of for the average Joe who doesn't have a legitimate need for them. Over here, 'legitimate need' for firearms is basically confined to farmers who need to protect their livestock and control vermin. On your side of the pond i guess this legitimate need is extended to include people in rural areas that need protection from the likes of bears etc.
But imo, 'legitimate need' doesn't include the entire population!
What's the problem with banning automatic weapons outright (as there is no legitimate need for them at all) and tightening controls on other firearms and stricter background checks on people that want to use them?
I realise I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, because what you guys really need is a major cultural change that definitely won't happen overnight.
As for the whole "I need to protect my family" rhetoric spouted by the gun nuts, from what exactly? The commies under the beds?
I remember seeing an interview with some idiot from the NRA after one of your school shootings a couple of years ago, and he was banging on about how responsible gun owners need their weapons to protect their family. When questioned about what constitutes a responsible gun owner, he responded by saying that they keep their weapons in a locked cabinet. So how do you propose to protect your family from a goddamn immigrant rapist who bursts into your home in the middle of the night when your gun's locked away? "Excuse me Mr.rapist, can you wait a minute until I unlock my gun cabinet?"
It just doesn't make sense to me.
But imo, 'legitimate need' doesn't include the entire population!
What's the problem with banning automatic weapons outright (as there is no legitimate need for them at all) and tightening controls on other firearms and stricter background checks on people that want to use them?
I realise I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, because what you guys really need is a major cultural change that definitely won't happen overnight.
As for the whole "I need to protect my family" rhetoric spouted by the gun nuts, from what exactly? The commies under the beds?
I remember seeing an interview with some idiot from the NRA after one of your school shootings a couple of years ago, and he was banging on about how responsible gun owners need their weapons to protect their family. When questioned about what constitutes a responsible gun owner, he responded by saying that they keep their weapons in a locked cabinet. So how do you propose to protect your family from a goddamn immigrant rapist who bursts into your home in the middle of the night when your gun's locked away? "Excuse me Mr.rapist, can you wait a minute until I unlock my gun cabinet?"
It just doesn't make sense to me.
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Jim Jefferies talks a lot of sense - for an Aussie... 
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
I prefer him when he's off his tits... :D
I'll check that clip out if I can find it, cheers!
I'll check that clip out if I can find it, cheers!
Cream Gravy?
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You'd be surprised how often people actually do protect themselves via firearm ownership.
A friend of mine is a merchant marine, and he often leaves his apartment for months at a time to go on shipping rigs to earn the dough. About a year ago, two men had hopped the fence into their complex, and upon seeing him leaving with his sea bag, and seeing that a young woman was the only one home, attempted to break into their apartment. Lucky for her, he has a plethora of firearms and keeps a shotgun where she can easily access it. When they tried to break in, she grabbed the gun, shouted at them that if they came in, she'd kill them, and they left. No one got hurt, but two men who could have raped/murdered/robbed her were stopped, because suddenly she had the power to kill them.
When I have some spare money, I'm buying a shotgun too. I don't want some fucking asshole trying to rob, rape, or harm my wife nor I. If someone wants to fuck with us, I have no qualms threatening them with death.
Also, guns can't be banned in Texas. It won't happen. And 10% of the military is made up of Texans. They're not about to shoot fellow Texans over something that we see as an intractable right. The idea that the military would ever participate in disarming law abiding citizens is laughable. Maybe the police, but not the military.
In regards to mass shootings, it's obviously not a 'mental health' crisis, but rather a crisis of morality. People suddenly think other humans aren't worthy of living should they not be exactly the same as they are. I don't know how to address this, but blaming mental illness isn't the answer. I've suffered from a great deal of mental illness in my life but I've never felt the need to kill anyone over it.
I believe people are lashing out like this because they see no future for themselves; perhaps that future is a future without whites, or perhaps a future without jobs. In any case, they're an extremist response to the decay of American society, as the wealthy get wealthier and the poor get poorer, the have-nots will get crazier. The only way to address this is to try and create a society in which opportunities are once again available.
Maybe the U.S. needs to win another world war so our economy can boom again and young people like me could finally afford a house
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Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Hard disagree. We need to keep up the proxy and trade wars, resume attacking DPRK and strike Iran when the time is right. None of us are going to be able to afford a house in our lifetimes. Especially not at the rate I'm going.Maybe the U.S. needs to win another world war so our economy can boom again and young people like me could finally afford a house
The best we can hope for is several generations to pay off the nat'l/state deficits, solve CO2 emissions through reforestation, and deal with global warming because there's no stopping emissions. The world is on fire and no one cares.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I own my house, as do a few people my age I know, mostly my college friends, but yeah it's getting much harder. The gap is widening year by year.
These are very cogent points. I would argue this IS a mental health crisis, or perhaps a spiritual health crisis, but brought on by the reasons you've stated. These acts of killing spree-suicides are certainly extreme reactions to the decay of society. However, I don't think winning another war is going to do anything. The reason the US got so powerful after WW2 was certainly partly because of war (war, although it is the worst of humanity, also brings out the best of us in terms of innovation and progress, sometimes at least), but it was also because we had leader ship that realized the importance of a strong middle class, so policies were made to strengthen the people. These days our leadership is very clearly working to create an uneducated peasant working class (hell, Betsy DeVoss is trying to privatize primary school, which would cause millions of people to simply not send their kids to school). The only way to fix this is to root out the cancer and get people in there that actually have an interest in making things better for the general population. A strong middle class is the only way we can be sustainable as a country. Without that, the ultra-rich will pillage this great nation until it crumbles and then move on to somewhere else.
In regards to mass shootings, it's obviously not a 'mental health' crisis, but rather a crisis of morality. People suddenly think other humans aren't worthy of living should they not be exactly the same as they are. I don't know how to address this, but blaming mental illness isn't the answer. I've suffered from a great deal of mental illness in my life but I've never felt the need to kill anyone over it.
I believe people are lashing out like this because they see no future for themselves; perhaps that future is a future without whites, or perhaps a future without jobs. In any case, they're an extremist response to the decay of American society, as the wealthy get wealthier and the poor get poorer, the have-nots will get crazier. The only way to address this is to try and create a society in which opportunities are once again available.
Maybe the U.S. needs to win another world war so our economy can boom again and young people like me could finally afford a house
These are very cogent points. I would argue this IS a mental health crisis, or perhaps a spiritual health crisis, but brought on by the reasons you've stated. These acts of killing spree-suicides are certainly extreme reactions to the decay of society. However, I don't think winning another war is going to do anything. The reason the US got so powerful after WW2 was certainly partly because of war (war, although it is the worst of humanity, also brings out the best of us in terms of innovation and progress, sometimes at least), but it was also because we had leader ship that realized the importance of a strong middle class, so policies were made to strengthen the people. These days our leadership is very clearly working to create an uneducated peasant working class (hell, Betsy DeVoss is trying to privatize primary school, which would cause millions of people to simply not send their kids to school). The only way to fix this is to root out the cancer and get people in there that actually have an interest in making things better for the general population. A strong middle class is the only way we can be sustainable as a country. Without that, the ultra-rich will pillage this great nation until it crumbles and then move on to somewhere else.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Yes, absolutely agreed. College costs have gone totally out of control and an entire generation is crippled by debt which was not the case in previous generations. Greed has caused all of these problems. I am really lucky that I went to a pretty cheap in-state school and my parents had money to pay for it, and I chose a tech degree so I actually use it. But not everyone has those advantages, and they shouldn't be crippled for life because of it. The chance for realistic opportunities is growing slimmer and slimmer, and people see it. If we could get back to the way it was post-WW2, minus the social inequalities, we'd be onto something. It doesn't require a war, it requires people in power who want us to get back there instead of the sociopaths we have now (and have had for decades).
Used to be you could go to college, work part time and pay for it, get out without debt, get a job, your money was actually worth something, buy a house in a couple of years, start saving, and retire at 55, 60 years old with enough money to live on. Of course not everyone got there, but it was so much more possible if you worked for it. Now we have people buried in debt out of necessity, wage slaves working 80 hours a week at minimum wage and still not being able to feed their families adequately or own their home or advance at all, or both parents working all the time and no one to raise the kids. I'll say again, greed has caused this. It doesn't have to be this way. Some people have been engineering it to be this way for decades, ever since the 80s especially.
Used to be you could go to college, work part time and pay for it, get out without debt, get a job, your money was actually worth something, buy a house in a couple of years, start saving, and retire at 55, 60 years old with enough money to live on. Of course not everyone got there, but it was so much more possible if you worked for it. Now we have people buried in debt out of necessity, wage slaves working 80 hours a week at minimum wage and still not being able to feed their families adequately or own their home or advance at all, or both parents working all the time and no one to raise the kids. I'll say again, greed has caused this. It doesn't have to be this way. Some people have been engineering it to be this way for decades, ever since the 80s especially.
Cream Gravy?
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I'm not gonna lie man, and don't take this the wrong way because I love you and you've been a good friend to me these past 5 years. I really don't wana go into the fact that you're fortunate enough to afford a home.
I can't even find a job. My only visible prospect of home ownership (or retirement of any sort) is my parents dying before they can spend their retirement money and my sister and I getting to split the inheritance. And I'm lucky enough to have that prospect. Most people don't even have that in their future. I'm intelligent, educated, and hard working, and none of that seems to matter in the slightest. I'm dipping into what little savings I have just to try and get healthy enough that I can spend more time job hunting (not that it would help).
You're also a decade older than me; actually, I'm quite impressed you have what you have considering you came of age in the Great Recession. But it's arguable that it's just as hard now if not harder to obtain decent paying work, and more so now than ever, developers are building mansions instead of entry level homes, because the profit margins are higher, and money is God.
The only people I know who are saving for homes right now are people whose parents gave them their middle class jobs. In fact, the only successful people I know from my decade are a result of trust funds and influential parents. I'm not even as bad off as some of my friends. At least I have an apartment, and a loving wife who supports me and does her part to earn our meager income.
I'm very bitter about the subject of home-ownership.
It's all gone to shit and I'm not convinced it will get any better. I'm sorry if I'm being rude. I'm very depressed and angry and it really doesn't help that my health problems are causing me to wish I was dead most nights. I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at the fact that no one cares about creating an equitable, sustainable society. THIS IS WHY I'M NEVER HAVING KIDS. Who could subject a human being to THIS because of some misplaced desire to create a clone of yourself?
And you're right, another war wouldn't help the middle class, because the wealthy see no point in having a middle class. Less people to share the wealth with I suppose.
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I don't take offense man, I know I'm lucky, that's my point in fact. I'm lucky as hell and so are a few people I know, but we shouldn't have to be lucky like that to have a chance to own a home and build wealth over time. It's fucked up. I'm not trying to say something like "pull yourself up by the bootstraps". That's a bullshit cop-out line. I'm trying to say I totally agree with you. And I appreciate what I have very much. 
Cream Gravy?
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I'm sorry. I'm just really stressed out. Really really stressed.
I haven't done ANY drugs in weeks and it's really letting my depression and anxiety bleed through to the surface.
I haven't done ANY drugs in weeks and it's really letting my depression and anxiety bleed through to the surface.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
...and proceeds to illustrate this point with a single anecdote. ?
In point of fact, there must be many millions of unused guns in the US given the amount thought to be out there in the community and the comparatively low rates of shooting. Truth is, hardly anyone is actually using their guns for home defense. That's an NRA myth.
I dont know about you but I've never needed a gun once in my life and I have been involved in a fair bit of violence. None of it ever involved guns. Makes me wonder if rampant gun ownership really makes society safer or if it's actually a massive liability and risk factor for, ya know, getting shot.
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